Is God coercive?

[The_Confused_1]

I am currently discussing this with someone in another forum. He claims that God is coercive because of the threat of hell. That a god who would punish people eternally for disobeying him couldn’t possibly be a loving god.

As support for his theory on God’s Coercion, he tells me a story of a threatening man who claims he will destroy you and your family if you don’t give him your money. Than he asks if this situation is any different than God.

I was at a loss as to how to answer to him in this regard… So I need some help on how to answer to him. Thanks.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

I am currently discussing this with someone in another forum. He claims that God is coercive because of the threat of hell. That a god who would punish people eternally for disobeying him couldn’t possibly be a loving god.

As support for his theory on God’s Coercion, he tells me a story of a threatening man who claims he will destroy you and your family if you don’t give him your money. Than he asks if this situation is any different than God.

I was at a loss as to how to answer to him in this regard… So I need some help on how to answer to him. Thanks.

As far as I can tell, God is trying to lead us to heaven and not hell.

He might be confusing the warnings about hell with the intimidation tactics of the mafia. If that’s the case (and I can see why they would mistakenly draw this conclusion) you might want to point them out that God is trying to stop us from going to hell-- not vice versa.

Keep in mind, they’ll probably move next to the idea of why would an all-loving God create hell in the first place. You can tell them that God didn’t create hell. Our sins did-- which is why he was warning us not to sin in the first place.

The warnings about hell are not a scare-tactic to turn people good (even if the fear of hell does bring some people to faith). The warnings about hell are indeed a warning to help people understand that they are in danger-- not much different than a “Danger: Bridge Out” sign.

Ask them if it would be moral to be silent if they knew their friend was in danger, such as about to get by a car or something like that.

They would most likely say, “No. It is not immoral.”

If that’s the case, then explain to them that it is not immoral for God to warn people of hell either. In fact, it would be immoral if there was no warning at all.

In this hypothetical situaiton i noted above, they may not immediately agree with some points. So you might have to rough it out on some areas.

It will eventually come down to an argument of free-will vs. deteminism. It always does. If you reach that point I think you’ve done your best.

You can then invite them to church to come and see for themselves.

They might really like it.

 

[Hellisreal]

Ask them why someone would end up in Hell, if it is in fact real.

 

[The_Confused_1]

As far as I can tell, God is trying to lead us to heaven and not hell.

He might be confusing the warnings about hell with the intimidation tactics of the mafia. If that’s the case (and I can see why they would mistakenly draw this conclusion) you might want to point them out that God is trying to stop us from going to hell-- not vice versa.

Keep in mind, they’ll probably move next to the idea of why would an all-loving God create hell in the first place. You can tell them that God didn’t create hell. Our sins did-- which is why he was warning us not to sin in the first place.

The warnings about hell are not a scare-tactic to turn people good (even if the fear of hell does bring some people to faith). The warnings about hell are indeed a warning to help people understand that they are in danger-- not much different than a “Danger: Bridge Out” sign.

Ask them if it would be moral to be silent if they knew their friend was in danger, such as about to get by a car or something like that.

They would most likely say, “No. It is not immoral.”

If that’s the case, then explain to them that it is not immoral for God to warn people of hell either. In fact, it would be immoral if there was no warning at all.

In this hypothetical situaiton i noted above, they may not immediately agree with some points. So you might have to rough it out on some areas.

It will eventually come down to an argument of free-will vs. deteminism. It always does. If you reach that point I think you’ve done your best.

You can then invite them to church to come and see for themselves.

They might really like it.

Could you elaborate more on how our sins created hell? I thought that hell already existed before Adam and Eve, for Lucifer and his followers. Would it be fair to say that it was Lucifer’s sins that led to the creation of hell? Would this be a true statement?

 

[The_Confused_1]

Ask them why someone would end up in Hell, if it is in fact real.

I don’t quite see where you’re going with this? Please elaborate.

 

[Hellisreal]

Simply ask them what they think Hell is, and who goes there and why.

 

[promethius95945]

Could you elaborate more on how our sins created hell? I thought that hell already existed before Adam and Eve, for Lucifer and his followers. Would it be fair to say that it was Lucifer’s sins that led to the creation of hell? Would this be a true statement?

Smh, you’re putting the supernatural into the temporal. There is no time for God, angels and demons. Lucifer’s rebellion is the cause of hell, yes, but in OUR time it comes in conjunction with the fall of man, which was the pinnacle of lucifer’s betrayals.

Now, as to what hellisreal is saying… think of it this way: your friend’s example has a major flaw. God does not say “give me your money or go to hell.” God states, CHOOSE not to do evil and you go to heaven, otherwise you CHOOSE hell. The prescriptions of God are not “give me money.” They are things which ultimately improve the lot of human society.

Is it because the parent hates or coerces the child that they spank for bad behavior? Not in the slightest. They do it because they want to ensure that the child behaves in a way which is acceptable and helpful to society so that the child can grow to be a good citizen and succeed. In the same way, God’s precepts are for our benefit and the REWARD is being in His continued presence. Our CHOICE to be evil means we choose to seperate ourselves.

Okay, i’ll leave off there for someone else.