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spockrates
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I’m thinking there are things that can be known, which God does not know, but I’d like to know what others think.
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Polycarp1
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No, God is perfect. If He didn’t know everything He wouldn’t be perfect. Knowing more would add to His perfection and you can’t add to perfection or it wouldn’t be perfect.I’m thinking there are things that can be known, which God does not know, but I’d like to know what others think.
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triumphguy
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God already knew you would post that, and He also knew that I would post “God knew you would post that.”I’m thinking there are things that can be known, which God does not know, but I’d like to know what others think.
Which is why I am.
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RPRPsych
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God already knew you would post that, and He also knew that I would post “God knew you would post that.”
Which is why I am.
God is omniscient. The trouble is that many of us confuse omniscience with micro-managing, and ask “If God really knew about X, why didn’t he do A, B or C to make sure Y didn’t do Z?” - the answer to this (very difficult) question is that God’s plan (being based, unlike ours, on omniscience) is way more far-reaching and complex than we can appreciate at any given moment.
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Shike
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A Scholastic might say that God is the ground of all possibility. And if such a Being is intellectual, well then… there you go. A refutation indeed.I’m thinking there are things that can be known, which God does not know, but I’d like to know what others think.
Good question. Do you have any examples or kind of things God might not know that we can? Or are you just curious.
And to clarify, if I am not mistaken, omniscience is usually taken in the propositional sense rather than in the experiencial sense.
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ccmnxc
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He is completely omniscient, but you need to make sure that isn’t confused with being able to do the logically impossible. He can’t do that. A common example of logically impossible would be God making a rock He can’t lift.
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bzkoss236
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Exactly, because such a thing cannot exist based on the identity of God.
Furthermore, God cannot do things that invalidate an identity, the common example, a square circle or a round square. These cannot be accomplished because of their identity. Making a circle with square sides would make it cease to be a circle, it would become something else. Essentially saying that he could make a circle into a square.
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JDaniel
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Spockrates:I’m thinking there are things that can be known, which God does not know, but I’d like to know what others think.
If God’s Being is immutable then God’s knowledge is immutable. That act of knowledge which is immutable is an act that is one and the same for all things, including knowledge of Himself. Because God’s being and knowledge are unchangeable, means that He knows all things in one, unchangeable act of knowledge. Hence, by this unchanging act, God knows all things that change and their changes. For God’s knowledge is the cause of all things, which includes all changing things and their changes.
I can’t imagine what it could be that He would not know.
God bless,
jd
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spockrates
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Hi JD.
When you say, “God’s knowledge is the cause of all things,” do you mean there is nothing I say, think, or do that is not the effect of God? For example, if I give into some temptation to commit a mortal sin, did God cause the temptation, or the sin that resulted?
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raikou
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God should know everything because he is the First Cause. He has always existed, and eveything else that began to exist after him only existed because of him and through him. There isn’t anyhting that exists outside his knowledge.
Furthermore, God is the maximum. Since he is the cause of everything and the effects cannot be greater than the cause, it follows that God is the maximum standard of everything. There isn’t anything knowable by any being that God himself would not know. He is not merely truthful - he is the Truth. He is not merely knowledgeable - He is all-knowing.
I have shown that God is the maximum. However, I still haven’t proven thaf God is infinitely perfect: that is, God is limitless, and yet not lacking in anything. Is it because knowledge itself is naturally limitless? For example, the knowledge of real numbers is infinite. You will never run out of numbers and you can’t simply stop counting. Is this explanation sufficient?
Furthermore, God is the maximum. Since he is the cause of everything and the effects cannot be greater than the cause, it follows that God is the maximum standard of everything. There isn’t anything knowable by any being that God himself would not know. He is not merely truthful - he is the Truth. He is not merely knowledgeable - He is all-knowing.
I have shown that God is the maximum. However, I still haven’t proven thaf God is infinitely perfect: that is, God is limitless, and yet not lacking in anything. Is it because knowledge itself is naturally limitless? For example, the knowledge of real numbers is infinite. You will never run out of numbers and you can’t simply stop counting. Is this explanation sufficient?
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spockrates
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Thanks for the reply, raikou.
When you say, “God is the cause of everything,” do you mean he is the cause of all that is thought, said and done?
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spockrates
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Yes, I understand, CC. God cannot make a perfect circle that has right angles. For it is illogical to say that a circle can have angles. Please tell me: Is there anything we might say about God that is just as illogical as a circle with corners?
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spockrates
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Why, yes. I do have an example, Shike. I’d say God is not completely experienced. Wouldn’t you?
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spockrates
Guest
Agreed, but I had something else in mind when I said I think God does not know all, Psych. Can you guess what that is?
God is omniscient. The trouble is that many of us confuse omniscience with micro-managing, and ask “If God really knew about X, why didn’t he do A, B or C to make sure Y didn’t do Z?” - the answer to this (very difficult) question is that God’s plan (being based, unlike ours, on omniscience) is way more far-reaching and complex than we can appreciate at any given moment.
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spockrates
Guest
Yes, TG. But are there some things you, or I know that God cannot know?God already knew you would post that, and He also knew that I would post “God knew you would post that.”
Which is why I am.
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spockrates
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Really, Polycarp? I’m thinking that if he knew half of what I do, he’d be far from perfect. Know what I mean?
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Marc_Anthony
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Well He DID come down to experience life as a human, actually.
Anyway, even if he’s not completely experienced, how would that limit omniscience? He would know exactly what it’s like to be completely experienced, down to the last detail.
I don’t see how it’s illogical to say He’s not completely experienced but still omniscient.
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Marc_Anthony
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Not really.
[BTW, you realize your signature was actually originally said by Sherlock Holmes.
]
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raikou
Guest
Yes. He is the ultimate cause of everything. He is the foundation of all that is possible - he sets the “mechanisms” by which things can take place. But in some cases, I think he is not the DIRECT cause, as in the case of free creatures. The free action is directly caused by the free being himself (ex. Sin), where God is only the indirect cause because the mechanisms by which the sin could be made are set by him. In this case though, the creature is the one responsible, and not God. It’s like the store owner sold a gun to this guy, and yet it’s still the guy who used it for murder.
But please do censure me if I am stating a heresy.
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spockrates
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I suppose that depends on how one defines omniscience. If we define the holy attribute as knowing all that is possible to know, then I don’t see how God can have omniscience. Please tell me: Is experience knowledge?
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