Is God fair?

[ahs]

Speaking of facts and evidence and offering proof, etc…:

Why would anyone bother with God? Can you trust God not to be tired of you and your worship and destroy all of you after a certain thousands of years in heaven?

Exactly what evidence would someone present to “refute” this? You already presume that God might be tired of us, our worship, and might destroy us after we are in Heaven after so many years. That presumption of yours is YOUR burden to prove. What evidence can you offer that, after being in Heaven, God can get bored, get tired of us, or might destroy us? (There isn’t any such evidence.)

What proof do you have that he will not do that, or not cross against his word?

What proof do you have that He will do those things or that He will cross against His Word once we are in Heaven? The ONLY evidence of God taking back anything is when He decided, after someone’s intervention, to NOT harm someone and to have mercy on them when they did not deserve it. That’s flies in the face of your presumption.

Look at the two testaments at the multitude of religion, if God is real and really cares of people knowing him why didn’t he make his message clear so that everyone exists…

Not really sure what you asked here, but, God DOES make His message available to everyone who exists. Christ went to preach the Gospel even in the abode of the dead to offer eternal life to those souls. I’m not sure why it matters how fast that happened, or what course of years went by?

… and why did he made so many religions?

What “proof” do you have that God made so many religions?

And the devil… Common, God cannot have any rival… The only reason an entity such as the devil would exist is again because of the malevolence of God.

Here you presume that the devil did not have free will. What evidence do you have to prove we don’t have free will? (Since you don’t mind asking people to prove negatives, I’ll ask you to prove one.) OR, what evidence do you have that God created the devil (or anyone for that matter) out of “malevolence”?

And remember when answering these questions: “Opinions [are] worth nothing in front of facts.” Facts, please.

 

[dsfgsadfgsdfg]

Wow I think you said that a whole lot quicker than I did. I mean I went all the way around to the other side of the shed and back when the shovel was just behind me.

You made me crack up laughing. Thanks. And I’ve run around that shed too!

Cybophonia–this is a continual thing you post on the forums all the time. You bash and bash.

There’s one thing you have yet to understand. He still exists whether you believe in Him or not. Screaming and screaming, over and over and over, will never diminish that. Nor will it diminish the faith that others have.

 

[ahs]

Proof? Take the flood for example. It says God felt sorry he had created man(wow!) and that he went to destroy all human race except one family.

How was that unfair? God warned man ahead of time, and man ignored God. The flood was exactly fair. What was NOT fair was the God had mercy on Noah, and the Israelites, and on us…

The bar is of God is unrealistic, high and over demeaning.

Prove it. And remember, opinions are nothing in front of facts.

If he wanted them to be so pure why didn’t he make them so , in that manner?

He did. Then man rejected God and now we all have to live with the consequences. And on top of all that, God unfairly offers us eternal salvation. UNFAIR!!!

The free-will argument does not stand as punishing people for choosing to exercit their free-will is not fair at all.

Oh, so people should not be accountable for their choices? We should get a free pass for anything we decide to do?

Saving us? No proof for that. Everyone still dies, gets sick, suffers, etc…

You are begging the question again. You are presuming that experiencing physical death and suffering necessarily means we are not saved. You are presuming that there is nothing after this physical life. If you believe in God as professed by your religious affiliation, then your comment is nonsense. If you don’t, then you are putting the cart before the horse. First, you need to decide whether you believe in God, or not…and then whether the Christian God is the God you believe in. Otherwise, you are just running on a fallacious treadmill of faulty logic in your arguments.

I am not thankful at all that God is not fair nor loving, for me he is not worthy even of mention, much more of worship. Not this God…

Again, you beg the question in your “logic”. You can’t even decide what “fair” or “loving” is supposed to look like without breaking your rule about “opinions are nothing in front of facts”. How are you going to convince anyone that your presumptions about God’s “fairness” are logical?

 

[Cybophonia]

Speaking of facts and evidence and offering proof, etc…:

Exactly what evidence would someone present to “refute” this? You already presume that God might be tired of us, our worship, and might destroy us after we are in Heaven after so many years. That presumption of yours is YOUR burden to prove. What evidence can you offer that, after being in Heaven, God can get bored, get tired of us, or might destroy us? (There isn’t any such evidence.)

OMFG! Why have the dinosaurs go extinct then? Didn’t he get tired of the flood generation, and doesn’t common sense tell us that the on-going repetition of the same things is boring? What proof do you have that God after he consumed everything about our species or creation won’t choose to annihilate all creation, or to create something completely different? Why did God even create whatever exists now in the first place? He already made the dinosaurs go extinct and some other species in natures also go extinct. What proofs do you have that he won’t sodomise you all in heaven at some point or mock you or anything. Considering that life is so unfair and that he crapped on a lot of people, nations essp in the Old Testament and made his own people Israel blind in the New Testament. As Richard Dawkings put it :“[God is] a vindictive bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser , a misogynistic, homophobic racist, an infanticidal, genocidal, phillicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

What proof do you have that He will do those things or that He will cross against His Word once we are in Heaven? The ONLY evidence of God taking back anything is when He decided, after someone’s intervention, to NOT harm someone and to have mercy on them when they did not deserve it. That’s flies in the face of your presumption.

God changing his mind :

Gen. 6:6-7; Exod. 13:17; Judg. 21:6, 15; 1 Sam. 15:11, 35; Job 42:6; Jer. 31:19 ; (Gen. 24:67; 27:42; 37:35; 38:12; 2
Sam. 13:39; Pss. 77:3; 119:52; Isa. 1:24; Jer. 31:15; Ezek. 5:13;
14:22; 31:16; 32:31
Exod. 32:12, 14; Num.
23:19; 1 Sam. 15:29; Ps. 110:4; Isa. 57:6; Jer. 4:28; 15:6; 18:8, 10;
26:3, 13, 19; Ezek. 24:14; Joel 2:13-14; Amos 7:3, 6; Jon. 3:9-10; 4:2;
Zech. 8:14

Not really sure what you asked here, but, God DOES make His message available to everyone who exists. Christ went to preach the Gospel even in the abode of the dead to offer eternal life to those souls. I’m not sure why it matters how fast that happened, or what course of years went by?

Why so many religions then? so many interpretations? Why isn’t the bible written in explicit manner?

What “proof” do you have that God made so many religions?

What proof do you have that God made your religion? The bible was composed in time by many authors it doesn’t even measure up to the claims of Islam per se, who was a book entirely dictated by God through Gabriel the archangel.

Here you presume that the devil did not have free will. What evidence do you have to prove we don’t have free will? (Since you don’t mind asking people to prove negatives, I’ll ask you to prove one.) OR, what evidence do you have that God created the devil (or anyone for that matter) out of “malevolence”?

The perpetual existence of an instigator of evil can only be a malevolent reason. Do you think the devil is a match for God? Can God have a rival in your mind?

And remember when answering these questions: “Opinions [are] worth nothing in front of facts.” Facts, please.

Here you have been presented and hit with all the facts, cactus monkey. Now present your refutation, if you are capable(I honestly doubt it).

 

[MarkInOregon]

OMFG! Why have the dinosaurs go extinct then? Didn’t he get tired of the flood generation, and doesn’t common sense tell us that the on-going repetition of the same things is boring? What proof do you have that God after he consumed everything about our species or creation won’t choose to annihilate all creation, or to create something completely different? Why did God even create whatever exists now in the first place? He already made the dinosaurs go extinct and some other species in natures also go extinct. What proofs do you have that he won’t sodomise you all in heaven at some point or mock you or anything. Considering that life is so unfair and that he crapped on a lot of people, nations essp in the Old Testament and made his own people Israel blind in the New Testament. As Richard Dawkings put it :“[God is] a vindictive bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser , a misogynistic, homophobic racist, an infanticidal, genocidal, phillicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

God changing his mind :

Gen. 6:6-7; Exod. 13:17; Judg. 21:6, 15; 1 Sam. 15:11, 35; Job 42:6; Jer. 31:19 ; (Gen. 24:67; 27:42; 37:35; 38:12; 2
Sam. 13:39; Pss. 77:3; 119:52; Isa. 1:24; Jer. 31:15; Ezek. 5:13;
14:22; 31:16; 32:31
Exod. 32:12, 14; Num.
23:19; 1 Sam. 15:29; Ps. 110:4; Isa. 57:6; Jer. 4:28; 15:6; 18:8, 10;
26:3, 13, 19; Ezek. 24:14; Joel 2:13-14; Amos 7:3, 6; Jon. 3:9-10; 4:2;
Zech. 8:14

Why so many religions then? so many interpretations? Why isn’t the bible written in explicit manner?

What proof do you have that God made your religion? The bible was composed in time by many authors it doesn’t even measure up to the claims of Islam per se, who was a book entirely dictated by God through Gabriel the archangel.

The perpetual existence of an instigator of evil can only be a malevolent reason. Do you think the devil is a match for God? Can God have a rival in your mind?

Here you have been presented and hit with all the facts, cactus monkey. Now present your refutation, if you are capable(I honestly doubt it).

You do realize that God is “being” itself don’t you, and not some being in the world running around with human emotions and cares like the gods of Greek mythology?

Regarding the state of the world and the nature of created humans – perhaps you should read “Godforsaken: Bad Things Happen. Is There a God Who Cares? Yes. Here’s Proof.” I doubt that it will convince you of anything but it should give you something to think about. But given the apparent tone of your posts–I don’t know if you’re open minded enough to pursue it. I hope you are. I’m willing to read Dawkins and Hitchens though I find them unconvincing and think that their understanding of what we mean by God is deficient.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[Cybophonia]

You do realize that God is “being” itself don’t you, and not some being in the world running around with human emotions and cares like the gods of Greek mythology?

And what is your point?

Regarding the state of the world and the nature of created humans – perhaps you should read “Godforsaken: Bad Things Happen. Is There a God Who Cares? Yes. Here’s Proof.” I doubt that it will convince you of anything but it should give you something to think about. But given the apparent tone of your posts–I don’t know if you’re open minded enough to pursue it. I hope you are. I’m willing to read Dawkins and Hitchens though I find them unconvincing and think that their understanding of what we mean by God is deficient.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

I feel abandoned, cursed and hated by God.

 

[ahs]

OMFG!

Was this supposed to be evidence of some sort?

Why have the dinosaurs go extinct then? Didn’t he get tired of the flood generation, and doesn’t common sense tell us that the on-going repetition of the same things is boring?

Not a single bit of that is “evidence” that God’s get bored with anything and that we are mocked or destroyed by God after going to Heaven.

What proof do you have that God after he consumed everything about our species or creation won’t choose to annihilate all creation, or to create something completely different?

Actually, He WILL. This fallen world will pass away, and those who have accepted His eternal salvation will enjoy the fulfillment of Creation. In your objection, you continue to presume that this earthly life of ours is the end-all-be-all. It’s not.

Why did God even create whatever exists now in the first place?

Because He loves us and has a wonderful plan for us. All we have to do is accept the invitation.

Considering that life is so unfair…

Circular reasoning. You can’t even define “fair” without breaking your own standard about “opinions are worth nothing in front of facts”.

God changing his mind :

Gen. 6:6-7; Exod. 13:17; Judg. 21:6, 15; 1 Sam. 15:11, 35; Job 42:6; Jer. 31:19 ; (Gen. 24:67; 27:42; 37:35; 38:12; 2
Sam. 13:39; Pss. 77:3; 119:52; Isa. 1:24; Jer. 31:15; Ezek. 5:13;
14:22; 31:16; 32:31
Exod. 32:12, 14; Num.
23:19; 1 Sam. 15:29; Ps. 110:4; Isa. 57:6; Jer. 4:28; 15:6; 18:8, 10;
26:3, 13, 19; Ezek. 24:14; Joel 2:13-14; Amos 7:3, 6; Jon. 3:9-10; 4:2;
Zech. 8:14

Did you actually read a single one of those? I got about halfway down the list and the ONLY pertinent citation was the very first, and it completely flies in the face of your presumptions. Man was fairly punished for his sin, yet God unfairly decided to have mercy and save some of them, and eventually extended salvation to ALL men…including the ones He wiped out. The only unfairness God showed was in granting mercy when it was not deserved.

The rest of your post was exactly what I mentioned earlier. You jumped onto a treadmill of logical fallacy. Do you care to address the questions I actually asked with actual facts? Or do you just want to continue with the strawmen, circular reasoning, and the ad hominem? I’m not interested in chasing your fallacious/deceptive tactics. If you want to have an intellectual discussion, go back and address what I actually said, and see if you can refrain from childish name-calling.

 

[Cybophonia]

Was this supposed to be evidence of some sort?

Not a single bit of that is “evidence” that God’s get bored with anything and that we are mocked or destroyed by God after going to Heaven.

Actually, He WILL. This fallen world will pass away, and those who have accepted His eternal salvation will enjoy the fulfillment of Creation. In your objection, you continue to presume that this earthly life of ours is the end-all-be-all. It’s not.

Because He loves us and has a wonderful plan for us. All we have to do is accept the invitation.

Circular reasoning. You can’t even define “fair” without breaking your own standard about “opinions are worth nothing in front of facts”.

Did you actually read a single one of those? I got about halfway down the list and the ONLY pertinent citation was the very first, and it completely flies in the face of your presumptions. Man was fairly punished for his sin, yet God unfairly decided to have mercy and save some of them, and eventually extended salvation to ALL men…including the ones He wiped out. The only unfairness God showed was in granting mercy when it was not deserved.

The rest of your post was exactly what I mentioned earlier. You jumped onto a treadmill of logical fallacy. Do you care to address the questions I actually asked with actual facts? Or do you just want to continue with the strawmen, circular reasoning, and the ad hominem? I’m not interested in chasing your fallacious/deceptive tactics. If you want to have an intellectual discussion, go back and address what I actually said, and see if you can refrain from childish name-calling.

You got facts. You can’t chew them. The only logical fallacy I see is on you.

And I was the one asking. It is rude to answer a question with another question. It also reveals ignorance.

You have no common sense, nor any intelligence for that matter to deal with the things that I posted, your posts are further ignored. I don’t deal with idiocy, more than once.

 

[MarkInOregon]

And what is your point?

That maybe you’re viewing God as “a god,” as a supreme being among other created beings–but God is not a created being–not a part of the created universe in that sense.

I feel abandoned, cursed and hated by God.

O.K. – this helps explain your posts which seem angry and hostile toward God.

Would it perhaps be more productive to discuss/examine, say, one way in which you believe God has abandoned you or cursed you or made you think you are hated as opposed to just posting a lot of generalized complaints against God in a hostile tone? I realize that maybe you’re not ready to do that, that there is a pain there that is too great to share, but I don’t sense any easing of the pain in your generalize rants against God–they don’t seem to make you feel any better. When you’re ready perhaps examining the why you feel abandoned, cursed and hated by God – would offer some help. Hopefully when you are ready–you will find posters here willing to help you examine your situation in a charitable manner.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[MarkInOregon]

You got facts. You can’t chew them. The only logical fallacy I see is on you.

And I was the one asking. It is rude to answer a question with another question. It also reveals ignorance.

You have no common sense, nor any intelligence for that matter to deal with the things that I posted, your posts are further ignored. I don’t deal with idiocy, more than once.

Perhaps if you continue in this uncharitable vein you will not find posters willing to deal with you in a charitable manner.

The peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[Trident_H]

A church who has killed millions in his name. Answer my questions what proof do you have that God will not destroy or mock those in heaven after he gest bored of them? I’m sure a few millions of years of alelujah from scared ants in heaven would be boring even for God.

And if God wanted us to know him why didn’t he make his message clear from the start for everyone to understand it, or give anyone the capacity to do so individually?

I feel sad you feel this way. I mean I understand it. But I still feel sad. You giving up like this is really not alright. But I guess you’re just frustrated. And maybe scared. And I mean we all say and do things we don’t mean when we’re like that.

So maybe just take a day to calm down and then just come back and talk quietly with some of us. We’ll work it out together. Or we’ll try. Or at least we’ll spend some time telling stories. Or something.

Peace.

-Trident

 

[Jelrak_TB]

Hello my good Cybophonia.

I would like to reach out to you because you are on the precise path that led to my own agnosticism.

The only advice I would offer to you in this unsolicited fashion is to avoid the temptation of denigrating the opinions of those who do not believe (or disbelieve) as you do. For it was not long ago that you were as they…and if you might have decided at this late stage that you have been wrong up until this point, do seriously consider the corollary: that you might come upon a future moment where you might again consider your present self equally wrong…for this life has a way of dispensing wisdom at disparate intervals…and quite often when we least expect it.

So kindly maintain your decorum. Take a deep breath and consider your difficulty rationally. Then ask frank and meaningful questions, but be prepared to listen to the answers…

Good luck with your quest for knowledge…perhaps you might return in the future if your ban might ever be lifted. Until then I wish you the best opportunities for self-discovery…

Kind Regards,

Jelrak TB

 

[Boy_Wonder]

Is God fair? Provide your best proofs and examples.

No. God is NOT fair. if God were fair, we’d all be in deep doo doo.

God is Merciful. God is loving. God is humble. God is generous. God spoils us rotten. God allows us to make mistakes. God wants nothing more than our love.

 

[dsfgsadfgsdfg]

No. God is NOT fair. if God were fair, we’d all be in deep doo doo.

God is Merciful. God is loving. God is humble. God is generous. God spoils us rotten. God allows us to make mistakes. God wants nothing more than our love.

Amen to that.