Is God Female?

[rayne100]

As to his common sense…
do you question that we received common sense from God?
why then would he not think like us and in addition why would he not even think beyond us?
I’m not sure what you meant by this.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi all, this all may be much ado about nothing.

As you know, there is a movement to make God relational to women, where they change he to she in scripture. And, there is a movement to slip wicca type religion into christianity. Before, jumping on her, ask her what she thinks of

Galatians 3:26-29 (New International Reader’s Version)

26You are all children of God by believing in Christ Jesus. 27All of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ as if he were your clothes. 28There is no Jew or Greek. There is no slave or free person. There is no male or female. Because you belong to Christ Jesus, you are all one.
29You who belong to Christ are Abraham’s seed. You will receive what God has promised.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

find out if she is simply trying to make God and the Bible relational to girls. If that is in fact the situation, then suggest she may want to use the NIVR edition of the NIV. Explain that some of the students felt unconfortable and she really does not want to upset parents. The NIVR will use children in place of sons where the text does have a wider application like in Gal 3 above.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

here is an relational example,

Feminine Aspects of God

The Interpreter’s Bible Dictionary sees it as highly significant that the Hebrew term for the uniquely female organ, the uterus (womb), is used in the original Scriptures to describe God’s compassion.

God’s wisdom is obviously an integral, eternal aspect of God. Scripture frequently speaks of this highly rated aspect of God’s character as if it were a person. Scholars believe John’s concept of the Logos, the Word that was God and became flesh (John 1:1-14) was derived from the Old Testament understanding of Wisdom as much, probably more, than from the Greek idea of Logos. And yet Wisdom, the one before whom are riches and honor and righteousness (Proverbs 8:18) and who shared with God in the creation of all things (Proverbs 8:27-31) is consistently given a female gender in Proverbs and by Jesus (Proverbs 1:20; 4:6; 8:1,11; 9:1; 14:33; Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:35).

God as Mother
Ponder these words from the lips of God:

Isaiah 66:13 As a mother comforts her child, so will I comfort you . . .

The Amplified Bible leaves no doubt as to how its scholars interpret the words immediately prior to these:

Isaiah 66:12 For thus says the Lord, “Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the nations like an overflowing stream; you shall be nursed, you shall be carried on her hip, and be trotted on her [God’s maternal] knees. . .”

In a beautiful picture of maternal love, Jesus expressed the depth of divine compassion with the words:

Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.

Since Jesus came to show us the Father (John 14:11-6) it is not surprising that we find in the Old Testament a similarly beautiful picture of God’s love:

Psalms 36:7 How priceless is your unfailing love! Both high and low among men find refuge in the shadow of your wings.

More Scriptures about God as Mother
net-burst.net/god/mom.htm

net-burst.net/god/mother.htm

 

[rayne100]

Daniel Marsh- thank you for these words, This is exactly what I was getting at but didn’t have the reseaources here right now to find them.

 

[trustmc]

YinYangMom:

While God is neither male or female, as He simply IS,
I explain the term FATHER to my teens by quoting Jesus.

Reading the New Testament, continually, Jesus refers to God as “Father”, beginning with the time he stayed behind at the temple…Mary found him and He replied:

(Luke 2:49) And He said to them, “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in** My Father’s house**?”

Throughout the rest of the Gospel…

And ending with the Ascension when He last spoke with the apostles:

(Luke 24:49) “And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

Why would anyone presume to know God more intimately than Jesus??? If Jesus calls God, Father, then God the Father it is. I don’t buy into the argument that Jesus only used the term because of the ‘time’ which He chose to come to earth - the fact that society was Patriarchal at the time, so ‘logically’ Jesus spoke to people in terms they would understand and accept.

But, Jesus spoke on various subjects in terms people did not accept (they killed Him for it) so that’s a bogus argument, in my opinion. Jesus is God…He could use whatever term He wanted, and apparently He wants God referred to in the masculine as Father.

Also, Magnolia, as you can read from the quoted post above, it is simply not Christ-like to refer to God as “She.” We are to be imitators of Christ, which includes addressing God as “He,” despite His lack of gender. To do otherwise would run counter to taking on Christ’s likeness. This should be simple enough for teens to understand.

Mike

 

[rayne100]

trustmc:

Also, Magnolia, as you can read from the quoted post above, it is simply not Christ-like to refer to God as “She.” We are to be imitators of Christ, which includes addressing God as “He,” despite His lack of gender. To do otherwise would run counter to taking on Christ’s likeness. This should be simple enough for teens to understand.

Mike

I disagree, Mike. nowhere in the bible does it say that god must be called he, there is no definitive indesputible passage of god’s gender.
I am not questioning Jesus’s gender but rather god as a whole. Jesus being seperate but part of the God.

 

[Darrel]

rayne100:

Darell,
I understand what you are saying, however I never stated that this was a degredation of Women or in your words a slap to women. I am just expressing why I do not agree with you. I think bot points are valid, however I was responding to the previous couple of posts where it some one stated that god could not possibley be a woman and we should not call him so.
I disagree and those where my reasons why. We can go back and forth all day on why his did this or why he did that, there are some that I can logically explain and those that I cannot.
But I also disagree with the Bride of God as well, Jesus called God his father becasue he was his father and also to show that he is a parent figure and we his children. To show a parents unconditional love.
He does not call God the husband and us his brides.

Matt23:9

And call no [man] your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Revelation 19:7-9 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory. For the wedding day of the Lamb has come, his bride has made herself ready. She was allowed to wear a bright, clean linen garment." (The linen represents the righteous deeds of the holy ones.) Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who have been called to the wedding feast of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These words are true; they come from God.”

rayne100:

Jesus called God his father becasue he was his father and also to show that he is a parent figure and we his children.

Jesus taught us to call God ‘Father’ in the Lords prayer. Did he not? My question is this, why do people want to call God a women? What is the root of the need for this?

-D

 

[rayne100]

Darrel:

Matt23:9

Jesus taught us to call God ‘Father’ in the Lords prayer. Did he not? My question is this, why do people want to call God a women? What is the root of the need for this?

-D

Jesus taught us to pray to god, period.
God has no gender, and has both genders. Do you honestly believe that god can only be one or the other or that it really matters what you call God? The fact of the matter is, everyone has their own relationship with God and if thinking of god as having male and femal aspects helps someone get closer to god, then do you really think that god cares what he is called?
He sent his only son to sacrifice himself so that we would be forgiven all of our sins. He forgives us murder and theivery, do you thing that he would not forgive us if perhaps we were misguided in his gender?
With that said I am done debating as I have begun to repeat myself and I have nothing further to add.
Thanks for the debate.

 

[Darrel]

rayne100:

Jesus taught us to pray to god, period.
God has no gender, and has both genders. Do you honestly believe that god can only be one or the other or that it really matters what you call God? The fact of the matter is, everyone has their own relationship with God and if thinking of god as having male and femal aspects helps someone get closer to god, then do you really think that god cares what he is called?
He sent his only son to sacrifice himself so that we would be forgiven all of our sins. He forgives us murder and theivery, do you thing that he would not forgive us if perhaps we were misguided in his gender?
With that said I am done debating as I have begun to repeat myself and I have nothing further to add.
Thanks for the debate.

Have you ever taken the time to study theology of the body? Christopher West has a great book that explains the late Popes teachings. I see only opinion in your aguments, what are they based on?

-D

 

[rayne100]

Darrel:

Have you ever taken the time to study theology of the body? Christopher West has a great book that explains the late Popes teachings. I see only opinion in your aguments, what are they based on? -D

Darrel-
I have not studied the theology of the body. I never stated that I called God she, only that I can understand why someone would. And I often times do think of god as both male and female. I do not think this woman is wrong for saying she as long as she says he alternately. In fact there are several bibles which have corrected the he references to alternate between he and she in reference to god

 

[Darrel]

rayne100:

Darrel-
I have not studied the theology of the body. I never stated that I called God she, only that I can understand why someone would. And I often times do think of god as both male and female. I do not think this woman is wrong for saying she as long as she says he alternately. In fact there are several bibles which have corrected the he references to alternate between he and she in reference to god

I see,

I also said that God has no gender. I can understand why common sense would say that if God has no gender then why not call God either male or female?

It’s not so much an issue of is God male or female as it is a third option. It seems like so many Catholics are just lacking proper information. Here is West’s website if you are interested in his books. The truth is out there for every Catholic if they just choose to embrace it. I also linked Peter Kreeft’s free audio files here listen to the ninth one called women in the priesthood. It covers alot of what we discussed here.

christopherwest.com/

peterkreeft.com/audio.htm

-D

 

[trogiah]

javelin:

You could keep it simple with this logic:

Jesus was a man.
Jesus is God
Therefore it is appropriate to refer to God in the masculine, since God=Jesus=masculine.

Obviously, as previous posters pointed out, The Trinitarian person of God is not human, and so does not possess physical characteristics that we can label “male” or “female”. But God is certianly not just an “It”, so we defer to our most perfect example, Jesus, who referred to God as Father – again a masculine term.

So there is NO reason to refer to God in the feminine.

Not that there is anything wrong with being feminine…

Peace,
javelin

I would respectfully challenge your claim about references to God in the feminine - recalling that the spirit of Wisdom of the old testament is closely associated with the Holy Spirit of the trinity.

From the book of Wisdom:

"Resplendent and unfading is Wisdom, and she is readily perceived by those who love her, and found by those who seek her. 13 She hastens to make herself known in anticipation of men’s desire; 14 he who watches for her at dawn shall not be disappointed, for he shall find her sitting by his gate. 15 For taking thought of her is the perfection of prudence, and he who for her sake keeps vigil shall quickly be free from care; 16 Because she makes her own rounds, seeking those worthy of her, and graciously appears to them in the ways, and meets them with all solicitude. 17 For the first step toward discipline is a very earnest desire for her; then, care for discipline is love of her; 18 love means the keeping of her laws; To observe her laws is the basis for incorruptibility; 19 and incorruptibility makes one close to God; 20 thus the desire for Wisdom leads up to a kingdom. 21 If, then, you find pleasure in throne and scepter, you princes of the peoples, honor Wisdom, that you may reign as kings forever. 22 Now what wisdom is, and how she came to be I shall relate; and I shall hide no secrets from you, But from the very beginning I shall search out and bring to light knowledge of her, nor shall I diverge from the truth. "

The original poster said something about confusion of the teenagers - especially the teenage girls. I suggest that part if not most of that confusion comes from an inability of most teenagers to imagine anything without gender. Part of their education should be to learn that gender is not the greatest factor in a persons identity. Refering to God as feminine, while not strictly accurate, may be a step towards their learning that.

I have no what the true agenda is of the volunteer teacher you are working with is, but the idea of refering to God as feminine is not without precedent.

peace

-Jim

 

[rayne100]

trogiah:

I would respectfully challenge your claim about references to God in the feminine - recalling that the spirit of Wisdom of the old testament is closely associated with the Holy Spirit of the trinity.

From the book of Wisdom:

"Resplendent and unfading is Wisdom, and she is readily perceived by those who love her, and found by those who seek her. 13 She hastens to make herself known in anticipation of men’s desire; 14 he who watches for her at dawn shall not be disappointed, for he shall find her sitting by his gate. 15 For taking thought of her is the perfection of prudence, and he who for her sake keeps vigil shall quickly be free from care; 16 Because she makes her own rounds, seeking those worthy of her, and graciously appears to them in the ways, and meets them with all solicitude. 17 For the first step toward discipline is a very earnest desire for her; then, care for discipline is love of her; 18 love means the keeping of her laws; To observe her laws is the basis for incorruptibility; 19 and incorruptibility makes one close to God; 20 thus the desire for Wisdom leads up to a kingdom. 21 If, then, you find pleasure in throne and scepter, you princes of the peoples, honor Wisdom, that you may reign as kings forever. 22 Now what wisdom is, and how she came to be I shall relate; and I shall hide no secrets from you, But from the very beginning I shall search out and bring to light knowledge of her, nor shall I diverge from the truth. "

The original poster said something about confusion of the teenagers - especially the teenage girls. I suggest that part if not most of that confusion comes from an inability of most teenagers to imagine anything without gender. Part of their education should be to learn that gender is not the greatest factor in a persons identity. Refering to God as feminine, while not strictly accurate, may be a step towards their learning that.

I have no what the true agenda is of the volunteer teacher you are working with is, but the idea of refering to God as feminine is not without precedent.

peace

-Jim

I agree

 

[Darrel]

trogiah:

I would respectfully challenge your claim about references to God in the feminine - recalling that the spirit of Wisdom of the old testament is closely associated with the Holy Spirit of the trinity.

From the book of Wisdom:

"Resplendent and unfading is Wisdom, and she is readily perceived by those who love her, and found by those who seek her. 13 She hastens to make herself known in anticipation of men’s desire; 14 he who watches for her at dawn shall not be disappointed, for he shall find her sitting by his gate. 15 For taking thought of her is the perfection of prudence, and he who for her sake keeps vigil shall quickly be free from care; 16 Because she makes her own rounds, seeking those worthy of her, and graciously appears to them in the ways, and meets them with all solicitude. 17 For the first step toward discipline is a very earnest desire for her; then, care for discipline is love of her; 18 love means the keeping of her laws; To observe her laws is the basis for incorruptibility; 19 and incorruptibility makes one close to God; 20 thus the desire for Wisdom leads up to a kingdom. 21 If, then, you find pleasure in throne and scepter, you princes of the peoples, honor Wisdom, that you may reign as kings forever. 22 Now what wisdom is, and how she came to be I shall relate; and I shall hide no secrets from you, But from the very beginning I shall search out and bring to light knowledge of her, nor shall I diverge from the truth. "

The original poster said something about confusion of the teenagers - especially the teenage girls. I suggest that part if not most of that confusion comes from an inability of most teenagers to imagine anything without gender. Part of their education should be to learn that gender is not the greatest factor in a persons identity. Refering to God as feminine, while not strictly accurate, may be a step towards their learning that.

I have no what the true agenda is of the volunteer teacher you are working with is, but the idea of refering to God as feminine is not without precedent.

peace

-Jim

The issue is calling God she. Saying that the spirit of wisdmon is related to the Holy Spirit and is refered to as she is a stretch. The author seems to be using she in the same light as one uses she when refering to a ship. For example Mr. Scott from Star Trek might say to Captain Kirk, “Sir she’s a FINE ship!!!”.

Another point,

Revelation 19:7-9 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory. For the wedding day of the Lamb has come, his bride has made herself ready. She was allowed to wear a bright, clean linen garment." (The linen represents the righteous deeds of the holy ones.) Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who have been called to the wedding feast of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These words are true; they come from God.”

I posted this already. The point i want to make this time is that the words in red “his bride has made herself ready” are the words of an Angel. If this issue is all just a matter of humans attaching gender to everything then why did this eternal being refer to God as he in the masculine? Then the angel says "These words are true and they come from ‘God’ ".

Jesus is called king of kings, Mary is called queen of heaven. Can anyone be comfortable saying ‘In the name of the mother the Son and the Holy Spirit when the make the sign of the cross’? Heaven embraces the masculing and feminine in truth. Why should we do any different? It all feels like modernism and secularism to me.

-D

 

[trogiah]

Darrel:

The issue is calling God she. Saying that the spirit of wisdmon is related to the Holy Spirit and is refered to as she is a stretch. The author seems to be using she in the same light as one uses she when refering to a ship. For example Mr. Scott from Star Trek might say to Captain Kirk, “Sir she’s a FINE ship!!!”.

Another point,

Revelation 19:7-9 Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory. For the wedding day of the Lamb has come, his bride has made herself ready. She was allowed to wear a bright, clean linen garment." (The linen represents the righteous deeds of the holy ones.) Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who have been called to the wedding feast of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These words are true; they come from God.”

I posted this already. The point i want to make this time is that the words in red “his bride has made herself ready” are the words of an Angel. If this issue is all just a matter of humans attaching gender to everything then why did this eternal being refer to God as he in the masculine? Then the angel says "These words are true and they come from ‘God’ ".

Jesus is called king of kings, Mary is called queen of heaven. Can anyone be comfortable saying ‘In the name of the mother the Son and the Holy Spirit when the make the sign of the cross’? Heaven embraces the masculing and feminine in truth. Why should we do any different? It all feels like modernism and secularism to me.

-D

Anyone who can slip in a Star Trek reference deserves a reply

I have found this thread to be a good opportunity to learn and stretch the envelope a little and here is what I have learned.

God has no gender. God is neither male nor female.

Scripture refers to God with many images, some of them we usually associate with a particular gender.

The image of a Father is what Jesus used more than any other. and it makes a lot of sense to me. For the record, I can not imagine ever saying “Our Mother who art in heaven” without feeling really weird even though I care about my mother and I believe Mary the Mother of Jesus is worthy of great respect.

The fact that the most common image used has gender connotations is the partly due to the limits of human language.

I have found nothing in scripture that prohibits the consideration of other images of God. Jesus compares himself to a chicken. (a chicken that cares for its brood) There are places where God is presented with an image that has female connotations. But God is not female.

It is our own limitations and the limitations of language that keep us from seeing all that is God and nothing that isn’t in a single image. Any image that presents at least some truthful aspect of God is worth considering.

That is what I have learned in this thread

peace

-Jim

 

[Ahimsa]

I think the question is really asking, “Can we describe God using feminine langauge?”

That is, can we say that God is Daughter, Mother, e.g.

Within orthodox Christianity, the feminine is already connected to Creation, rather than to the Creator. The masculine relates to the Creator. So there’s already an inbuilt logic to the Christian system, a logic that becomes disrupted when the feminine is used to describe the Creator rather than the Creation.

However, having said, that, within mystical Christianity (considered heretical by most orthodox), the Creation is not-different from the Creator (not the “same,” mind you, but “not-different” either). In such mystical Christianity, God can be spoken of in feminine terms, because God includes both Creator and Creation.

 

[rayne100]

Ahimsa:

I think the question is really asking, “Can we describe God using feminine langauge?”

That is, can we say that God is Daughter, Mother, e.g.

Within orthodox Christianity, the feminine is already connected to Creation, rather than to the Creator. The masculine relates to the Creator. So there’s already an inbuilt logic to the Christian system, a logic that becomes disrupted when the feminine is used to describe the Creator rather than the Creation.

However, having said, that, within mystical Christianity (considered heretical by most orthodox), the Creation is not-different from the Creator (not the “same,” mind you, but “not-different” either). In such mystical Christianity, God can be spoken of in feminine terms, because God includes both Creator and Creation.

I believe that you have hit the nail on the head in regards to what we are all searching to answer.
I believe that we can refer to God as Daughter and Mother etc, but we also must keep in mind that God is these things because God is everything, all encompasing.
We must keep in mind that God is not only male and is not only female.
Our language does limit how we describe God.
And becasue of this, the issue we are discussing arises.

 

[Fergal]

God is spirit.

He is the fullness of paternity and materity.

 

[rayne89]

rayne100:

Darrel-
I have not studied the theology of the body. I never stated that I called God she, only that I can understand why someone would. And I often times do think of god as both male and female. I do not think this woman is wrong for saying she as long as she says he alternately. In fact there are several bibles which have corrected the he references to alternate between he and she in reference to god

Hey you’ve got my name!
Just kidding.
I thought I was the only “rayne” on here. This is first time I’ve noticed you on the forum, so welcome rayne

(sorry didn’t mean to interrupt )