Is God Good?

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NoelFitz said:
Fhansen,
I am grateful to you for your reply.
Your God seems callous. He could help us if he wanted to but he lets us to go to hell. He could allow us not to be led into temptation, to but he chooses not to.
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He values our freedom, the freedom to choose the right thing. So do we. And so He allows us to choose as we will, to choose what we prefer or deem to be right. And if we value cold selfishness and pride to love, we get to have it, even as He seeks to draw us His way instead.

And what could be less callous than a God Who would allow Himself to be hung on a cross, by His own creation: humiliated, tortured, and killed to prove that He loves us in spite of our sin, in spite of our opposition to Him?
 
NoelFitz said:
Fhansen,
I am grateful to you for your reply.
Your God seems callous. He could help us if he wanted to but he lets us to go to hell. He could allow us not to be led into temptation, to but he chooses not to.
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By resisting temptation we progress in spiritual maturity. His grace, prayer and the sacraments make that possible. The Second Person of the Blessed Trinity paid a high price for us! God is perfect love.

The evil one and his cohorts are on a leash. God does not allow them to tempt us beyond our ability to resist.

If and when we fall into mortal sin, the humility to repent and confess restores us in grace.
 
I guess this all comes down to how you view Hell. If you see Hell as self-imposed exclusion from the light and love of God, or as the love of God being a kind of torment to a wicked soul, then I see no injustice on God’s part at all.

However, if you hold the common fundamentalist view of Hell as a fiery torture chamber where God vengefully inflicts excruciating pain on crying and terrified tortured human beings, then yeah there’s a problem. Not even ISIS would do something so horrible. If God really does that, then I can only conclude that he is not good, he’s evil, he makes Hitler and ISIS look like boy scouts. I don’t care what a person has done, no one deserves to be tortured. Torture is intrinsically evil and is never justified under any circumstance.

This all leads me to believe that Hell is a torment resulting from the condition of one’s soul in relation to the infinite love and goodness of God, not some savage vengeful torture by fire. I can’t image who could ever love a deity who eternally tortures his own creatures.
 
ALoveDivine,
The Bible tells us God will say to some “Depart from me you cursed into everlasting fire.” One also reads " He called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in agony in these flames.’ (Luk 16:24 NRS). Perhaps these tell us what type of place hell is.
 
Fhansen
your replies are solid.
I may disagree, but your opinions reflect views which did exist in the Church.

You wrote that God allows us to choose what we deem to be right. But our choices could land us in hell for eternity. So it is not really permission to do our will.

I cannot see how dying on the cross showed love. Jesus did not want do die. “Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me; yet, not my will but yours be done.” (Luk 22:42 NRS). "And going a little farther, he threw himself on the ground and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him. He said, “Abba, Father, for you all things are possible; remove this cup from me; yet, not what I want, but what you want.”
(Mar 14:35-36 NRS).

I really cannot see how God is good if people end up in hell. Perhaps in faith the doctrine must be accepted, remembering what Tertullian did not say “credo quia absurdum”.
 
NoelFitz said:
Dorothy,
it is incorrect to claim “the humility to repent and confess restores us in grace.” Sorry!
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I don’t understand why that is incorrect. Did I word it or understand it wrong?

(the grace of humility comes from the Lord, and when we accept it and act accordingly, we benefit and God is glorified.)
 
NoelFitz said:
From the Bible and the teaching of the Church, especially in this year of mercy, is it appropriate to ask if God is good?

His track record seems poor. He created angels, and a huge number (possibly 30%) fell away. He created humans, and they rejected him. He sent his only son, and he was also rejected. Nowadays many former Christians are leaving God. So is God good?
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First let’s set the record straight:

a Brief but accurate definition of God is:

GOD IS EVERYTHING GOOD PERFECTED👍

What does this mean?

This means that God CAN only Do Good things! [By GODS definition not ours:)]

God can & God Does PERMIT evil; illness, spiritual- death and so on; BUT cannot Will it.

So the FACT that a very great MANY reject Him; directly or indirectly; knowingly or unknowingly is man’s choice NOT God’s desire or Will.

So then what is God’s response to these very human [and angelic failings]🤷

On the Cross moments before He Died Jesus SHOUTED … “I THIRST”

This astounding outburst; made even more so because Jesus KNEW that he was seconds away from death. IF he was seeking a literal drink; surely he would have requested it MUCH sooner…:o

NO! What Jesus was proclaiming and Teaching here is that despite all that he had done; all that he had given of himself; He STILL desired to do more. That more my fried answers your question: That MORE took three forms:

[1] Jesus gave to the world His One True Church and Faith [Mt 16:18-19; Jn. 17: 17-20 & Mt. 28:16-20]

[2] Jesus gave US His 7 Sacraments: A source of grace; peace; Mercy. Love and comfort for weary souls.

[3] Jesus gave us HIS MOTHER Mary to aid, to direct; to console and to be the example we all ought to strive for. Jn 19: “.[26] When Jesus therefore had seen his mother and the disciple standing whom he loved, he saith to his mother: Woman, behold thy son. [27] After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own. [28] Afterwards, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, said: I thirst.”

Jn. 19: [29] “Now there was a vessel set there full of vinegar. And they, putting a sponge full of vinegar and hyssop, put it to his mouth. [30] Jesus therefore, **when he had taken the vinegar, **said: It is consummated. And bowing his head, he gave up the ghost”.
How do I reply to these negative thoughts. One can say God’s ways are not our ways, and we cannot know the mind of God. But the problem remains. Hell awaits many of us apparently, yet we are told God is good. This is a problem.
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Please help me resolve these negative thoughts
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Again: WHY does Hell exist?

BECAUSE GOOD IS TO BE JUSTLY & FAIRLY REWARDED & AND EVIL JUSTLY REPAID.

It is WE, NOT God who choose Eternal hell or Eternal Heaven.😉

**1st. Timothy 2: 3-4
“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour, [4] Who will have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth”. **
But who indeed are you, a human being, to argue with God? Will what is molded say to the one who molds it, “Why have you made me like this?” (Rom 9:20 NRS)
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  • For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the LORD.
    For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
    (Isa 55:8-9 NRS)*
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These last two are GREAT teachings; BUT do NOT presume dear friend that God is the CAUSE of evil OR man’s freely chosen life-choices. AMEN!👍

God Bless you,
PJM
 
Perhaps we are missing the proper interpretation of the description of Hell.
Without heat, there is only cold.
Without light, there is only darkness, without God, what exactly is there?
If God is comfort, and warmth and light in the cold and darkness, to reject him, is to be without joy and alone.

Is Hell a place of fire and brimstone or is it worse, a horribly cold and alone place with no comfort for our souls?

In our earthly lives we experience every day the presence of God. Some of us recognize it, some don’t. We see a beautiful sunset, stars over a mountain night, a field of wildflowers, the birth of a child. Imagine how much more we will experience in the presence of the one who created all of that!

Is God good? Look around you. His goodness is everywhere.

But imagine also a God who would demand that we love him and give us no choice? What value to Him would that be? Imagine if you had a love potion to make another person love you against their will. What value would you eventually place on that love?

By giving us the free will to chose Him, or not, those who choose Him will be valued and exalted in Heaven because he will know that we WANTED to love Him.

God has no plan to plunge us into darkness, or eternal flames or whatever might await unbelievers. His plan is for all of us to come to Him in praise out of the desires of our own hearts.

Belief to avoid punishment is hollow belief. Belief through love is sublime.
He gave us a choice n the garden and our nature was to turn against Him. But through His GOODNESS he gave us His Son to redeem us from our sin. He WANTS us to return to Him, but He wants us on our own faith.

Yes, God is ALWAYS Good. All the other stuff is often hard to explain or accept but remember, death of our earthly bodies is not to be feared, but looked on as the door to the next life in Heaven… If, like God, we have been good. 😉
 
Dorothy said:
I don’t understand why that is incorrect. Did I word it or understand it wrong?

(the grace of humility comes from the Lord, and when we accept it and act accordingly, we benefit and God is glorified.)
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NOPE:D

You’re correct
 
PJM said:
YEA-BUT
There’s a-lot more grace available to the humble:)
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Yes, it’s not either/or. It’s grace first, then our acceptance of or response to it. Then more grace, the two working together.
 
NoelFitz said:
From the Bible and the teaching of the Church, especially in this year of mercy, is it appropriate to ask if God is good?

His track record seems poor. He created angels, and a huge number (possibly 30%) fell away. He created humans, and they rejected him. He sent his only son, and he was also rejected. Nowadays many former Christians are leaving God. So is God good?

How do I reply to these negative thoughts. One can say God’s ways are not our ways, and we cannot know the mind of God. But the problem remains. Hell awaits many of us apparently, yet we are told God is good. This is a problem.

Please help me resolve these negative thoughts

But who indeed are you, a human being, to argue with God? Will what is molded say to the one who molds it, “Why have you made me like this?” (Rom 9:20 NRS)
  • For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the LORD.
    For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
    (Isa 55:8-9 NRS)*
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It isn’t a question of God being good, but rather is man being good.

Man is called to be the image of God, and made in his image. Being called to be the adopted children of God with rights to God’s kingdom, then he should live in that knowledge.

It is man’s own failure to recognize his own special dignity as a son of God. And so man mishandled his life thru sin which blemishes what God made so beautiful.

But God being Good, furnished a door thru which man could reorder himself and become good again … thru God’s own Son crucified.
 
NoelFitz said:
SnoopSword
perhaps God has a good plan for individual ending up in hell and suffering for all eternity.
I cannot see it.
I cannot see how suffering for all eternity terrible pains is good.
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What if there are a small, organized, group people on the earth who technically arent ‘people’ and our outside of Gods ‘jurisdiction’?

Dont you remember when Cain was cast away from the sight of God? His seed would spend his life wandering from place to place building cities and becoming rules (like Job).

God stayed with Adam to Noah to Egypt and paved the way for Christ.

The beginning of Mark 6 might identify some people who were not under Gods jurisdiction which is the real reason Jesus couldnt work miracles on them. Id this gets interpreted otherwise, then we end up with the modern theological mess of ‘if you didnt get healed, its because you didnt have enough beleif’.
 
fred_conty said:
It isn’t a question of God being good, but rather is man being good.

Man is called to be the image of God, and made in his image. Being called to be the adopted children of God with rights to God’s kingdom, then he should live in that knowledge.

It is man’s own failure to recognize his own special dignity as a son of God. And so man mishandled his life thru sin which blemishes what God made so beautiful.

But God being Good, furnished a door thru which man could reorder himself and become good again … thru God’s own Son crucified.
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Indeed this IS true:thumbsup:

I read recently in a morning meditation [BREAD OF LIFE Booklet] 1/9/2016

“Whether something is good does not depend on our getting our way but on God getting His way; and whether we do God’s Will depends on us loving God. Moreover, to love God we must [actually know ; not just know of] know God, especially His saving death and glorious Resurrection.”

Amen
 
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