Is God In us?

[simple_soul]

OK, So my original post in the Traditional Catholic Forum about “why do roman catholics kneel?” led me to another thought. So I thought I would come back to the Eastern Forum and ask the question and maybe you all could help me understand.
The question is:
"If God is Life then how can we have Life in us if He is not in us. I have heard that the Holy Spirit is the Breath of Life. If it was not for this Breath of Life we would not have Life in us.
Are you saying that this is incorrect also? "

As of yet I have not gotten an answer from the Traditional Forum so I came here. Is this understanding of God being in us correct? If it is not please help me to understand why?

 

[superdave69]

This can get quite involved, to simply answer your question; God is in us if we allow him to be. We have a free will to accept him or reject him. If we accept him he sends his Holy Spirit in us at Baptism. I hope this is a start to answer your question.
God Bless Super Dave

 

[Ghosty]

OK, So my original post in the Traditional Catholic Forum about “why do roman catholics kneel?” led me to another thought. So I thought I would come back to the Eastern Forum and ask the question and maybe you all could help me understand.
The question is:
"If God is Life then how can we have Life in us if He is not in us. I have heard that the Holy Spirit is the Breath of Life. If it was not for this Breath of Life we would not have Life in us.
Are you saying that this is incorrect also? "

As of yet I have not gotten an answer from the Traditional Forum so I came here. Is this understanding of God being in us correct? If it is not please help me to understand why?

I’m not quite sure of what you are referring to. Are you refering to spiritual life, or natural life? The answer will be slightly different depending on which you’re referring to.

Peace and God bless!

 

[superdave69]

God is our spiritual life; our human life can live with or without God. Again if we want a spiritual life we must first accept God, and accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and savior. There is no way to God but through Christ. God is all things, seen and not seen. He is everywhere. I would suggest you look around Catholic Answers and read some of the articles point to this question.

 

[simple_soul]

I’m not quite sure of what you are referring to. Are you refering to spiritual life, or natural life? The answer will be slightly different depending on which you’re referring to.

Peace and God bless!

I am referring to both. Since you are saying they are different would you mind explaining the difference to me?

 

[Ghosty]

I am referring to both. Since you are saying they are different would you mind explaining the difference to me?

No problem.

God is our Life in terms of natural life because He makes us and holds us in existence. Our natural life is like a rock being held up in the air by a hand; without the hand constantly holding it up, it will fall. Likewise, our natural life is constantly being held in existence by the power of God, and without that we would fall into nothingness.

God is our spiritual life by Grace, when He imparts His own Divine Life to us and we become partakers of the Divine Nature. This is Life is more akin to the energy flowing through the filament of a lightbulb. He courses through us and we shine forth with Light and Energy, becoming something we could not be by our natural powers alone. This is a greater kind of Life than our natural life, but it is less “permanent” within us, being something that is shared by Grace rather than something that is foundational to our very existence as our natural life is.

Incidentally, this teaching is shared by all the Apostolic traditions, East and West, though different terms are sometimes used (Latin terminology uses Sanctifying Grace for the spiritual life, for example).

Does this help?

Peace and God bless!

 

[simple_soul]

No problem.

God is our Life in terms of natural life because He makes us and holds us in existence. Our natural life is like a rock being held up in the air by a hand; without the hand constantly holding it up, it will fall. Likewise, our natural life is constantly being held in existence by the power of God, and without that we would fall into nothingness.

God is our spiritual life by Grace, when He imparts His own Divine Life to us and we become partakers of the Divine Nature. This is Life is more akin to the energy flowing through the filament of a lightbulb. He courses through us and we shine forth with Light and Energy, becoming something we could not be by our natural powers alone. This is a greater kind of Life than our natural life, but it is less “permanent” within us, being something that is shared by Grace rather than something that is foundational to our very existence as our natural life is.

Incidentally, this teaching is shared by all the Apostolic traditions, East and West, though different terms are sometimes used (Latin terminology uses Sanctifying Grace for the spiritual life, for example).

Does this help?

Peace and God bless!

It might be a start. If I understand Natural Life is our human nature and Divine Life is our spiritual nature?

This leads me to another question. Could you explain what our Spiritual Nature is and how it relates to the human nature and could you elaberate on what you mean by “less permanent” and how God “holds us in existence”?

I hope I am not pestering you with too many questions but it has always been my understanding from when I was young that God was in everything. Every Human, animal, tree, rock, planet,star…ect…ect…ect and I took it to mean literaly that God was in every thing. Then someone said that this was not true and it really made me scared that I was not understanding something correctly or that I had missed something all these years.

Pease and God bless you too.

 

[Ghosty]

It might be a start. If I understand Natural Life is our human nature and Divine Life is our spiritual nature?

This leads me to another question. Could you explain what our Spiritual Nature is and how it relates to the human nature and could you elaberate on what you mean by “less permanent” and how God “holds us in existence”?

I hope I am not pestering you with too many questions but it has always been my understanding from when I was young that God was in everything. Every Human, animal, tree, rock, planet,star…ect…ect…ect and I took it to mean literaly that God was in every thing. Then someone said that this was not true and it really made me scared that I was not understanding something correctly or that I had missed something all these years.

Pease and God bless you too.

We don’t have two natures, a human and a spiritual. We only have one nature, that is the human nature, which is physical (body) and spiritual (soul). Grace is something else, outside of our nature, and while it is indeed spiritual, it can’t be called our “spiritual nature”. In short, God is not part of our nature, but God is active in our nature both by giving us existence, and by sharing Divine Life with those in Grace. God is properly said to be “in” us only when we share in the Divine Life and the indwelling of the Holy Trinity; God can only said to be “in us” in our nature if we expand “in” to include His acting to hold us in existence, as the hand holding up the rock.

This is why we say that God is omnipresent, rather than saying that God is a part of everything; He is present to everything by His power, but He does not enter into the very being of things by their nature.

Peace and God bless!

 

[simple_soul]

We don’t have two natures, a human and a spiritual. We only have one nature, that is the human nature, which is physical (body) and spiritual (soul). Grace is something else, outside of our nature, and while it is indeed spiritual, it can’t be called our “spiritual nature”. In short, God is not part of our nature, but God is active in our nature both by giving us existence, and by sharing Divine Life with those in Grace. God is properly said to be “in” us only when we share in the Divine Life and the indwelling of the Holy Trinity; God can only said to be “in us” in our nature if we expand “in” to include His acting to hold us in existence, as the hand holding up the rock.

This is why we say that God is omnipresent, rather than saying that God is a part of everything; He is present to everything by His power, but He does not enter into the very being of things by their nature.

Peace and God bless!

Is it the Grace of God that gives us this human nature?

 

[simple_soul]

We don’t have two natures, a human and a spiritual. We only have one nature, that is the human nature, which is physical (body) and spiritual (soul). Grace is something else, outside of our nature, and while it is indeed spiritual, it can’t be called our “spiritual nature”. In short, God is not part of our nature, but God is active in our nature both by giving us existence, and by sharing Divine Life with those in Grace. God is properly said to be “in” us only when we share in the Divine Life and the indwelling of the Holy Trinity; God can only said to be “in us” in our nature if we expand “in” to include His acting to hold us in existence, as the hand holding up the rock.

This is why we say that God is omnipresent, rather than saying that God is a part of everything; He is present to everything by His power, but He does not enter into the very being of things by their nature.

Peace and God bless!

Sorry I have another thought. From what you are saying here I am taking it as saying we can actually have three elements to our being. Our body,soul and Grace as in God. Is this correct?

 

[chaunceygardner]

*Simple Soul *asked:

If God is Life then how can we have Life in us if He is not in us. I have heard that the Holy Spirit is the Breath of Life. If it was not for this Breath of Life we would not have Life in us…Is this understanding of God being in us correct?

I would say you are thinking correctly. Here is how I view it. Be aware that this may not agree with any particular theology or doctrine.

First, if we accept that God is infinite, then everything is contained in Him and He is in everything (as you said in your OP).

Second, that means he is in every human being. We call this part of God in each of us our “soul”.

Third, you can neither gain nor lose your soul, since it is a part of God and is therefore eternal. It existed before we were created, and will exist after our physical bodies are gone.

Fourth, we must be receptive to God within us, we must respond to His word and His call, for God’s power inside us to have any effect. This is what we would call “Grace”.

I will use the analogy of the light bulb from the post by Ghosty, but alter it somewhat. Let’s say that the filament of the light inside us is our soul. Just like a light bulb is dark until the power is switched on, the filament in our bulb will only work if we let the power of God flow through us. The amount of light emitted from that bulb, light that can reach out to others, depends on us. For some people, that light is mostly dark. For others, those we consider saints, the light burns very bright, so bright that others can see it and feel its intensity.

I have personally known some people whose light burned very brightly. A good example that almost all can agree on is Mother Teresa. She was open to the power of God working through her, and as a result her light could be seen by all humanity.

Others can argue about your question, and quote scripture and doctrine “ad nauseam”, but to me this one verse from John 14, one of my favorites, says it clearly and simply:

That day you will realize that I am in my Father and you are in me and I in you.

 

[bpbasilphx]

Second, that means he is in every human being. We call this part of God in each of us our “soul”.

---

**This is not a Christian teaching, but Hinduism.

God can’t be chopped into portion control quantities.

The soul is a faculty of and part of our human nature. It’s not a part of God.

Try again.**

 

[simple_soul]

Second, that means he is in every human being. We call this part of God in each of us our “soul”.

---

**This is not a Christian teaching, but Hinduism.

God can’t be chopped into portion control quantities.

The soul is a faculty of and part of our human nature. It’s not a part of God.

Try again.**

OK if you understand that the human nature is both body and soul how does the human sustain life in an Orthodox Theology? And what does the saying mean when it is said that the Holy Spirit is the Breath of Life?

 

[Ghosty]

OK if you understand that the human nature is both body and soul how does the human sustain life in an Orthodox Theology? And what does the saying mean when it is said that the Holy Spirit is the Breath of Life?

The soul sustains human bodily life, and continues living after the body dies. This is inherent to the nature of the soul, designed, created, and held in existence by God.

The Holy Spirit is the “Breath of Life” in terms of the Divine Life that is Grace. Grace is not so much an element of human nature, but a sharing of the Divine Nature with humans. We do not become Divine by nature through Grace, but we do share in what it is to be Divine, much as a rod of iron shares in what it means to be fire when it is heated by fire and becomes bright and hot.

Peace and God bless!

 

[simple_soul]

Dear Ghosty, I hopfully have attached a link of a General Audience with Pope Benedict the XVI and he is definatly talking about the Holy Spirit being in us and he uses St.Paul to reinforce this understanding. Are you and he saying the same thing?

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061115_en.html#top

 

[chaunceygardner]

In response to my statement: "that means he is in every human being. We call this part of God in each of us our “soul”,

bpbasilphx said

This is not a Christian teaching, but Hinduism.

Perhaps we have something to learn about God from the Hindus, then.

God can’t be chopped into portion control quantities.

No chopping required. If something or someone (God in this case) IS infinite, that means that it can never be less than infinite. Even if divided into a billion parts, EACH part still is infinite. The other way of looking at it is that the entire universe, including us, is contained within God. And within each of us, therefore, is God. That part of us that contains the essence of God is the soul.

If Jesus is (was) God, then how could that be, if God isn’t infinite and can’t be “divided”? Was God any less because He was also in Jesus at the same time? He is the prime example of my thesis.

The soul is a faculty of and part of our human nature. It’s not a part of God.

What do YOU mean by human nature? What makes US human? Is it that we have a soul? Yes. Is that soul part of our body? Don’t think so. Then what is it? If it is not physical, it must be spiritual (i.e., from God, or as I put it, a part of God.). As Ghosty said, the soul *“continues living after the body dies. This is inherent to the nature of the soul, designed, created, and held in existence by God.” *

I like that.

Try again.

You must have missed my intro, in which I said that what I was stating may not be the teaching of any one faith. So there is no need to try again. I am perfectly comfortable with what I wrote. And it could be that we are just using different terminology and coming at it from different directions, but are not really that much apart in our core beliefs.

Back to *Simple Soul’s *question. If we follow my original train of thought, then the statement that “the Holy Spirit is the Breath of Life” should be clear. The Holy Spirit, another aspect of God, IS what makes us human. Without a soul, or the Spirit of God within us, we would not be truly human. That is what “created in the Image of God” means. It is not a physical resemblance. It is The Holy Spirit, entering our bodies, breathing life into us, becoming our soul. We have the Spirit within us which makes us children of God, created in His image.

To me it is a beautiful and deeply meaningful thought, that we have God always within us.

We are in Him, and He is in us. What Jesus said.

 

[simple_soul]

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061115_en.html#topvatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061115_en.html#top

Hello all
I found a General Audience from Pope Benedict the XVI where he is refering to the Holy Spirit as being in us and he refers to messages from St Paul. Please read and share your thoughts. It is titled St. Peter and the Spirit. I think this is in line with part of my understanding I will have to dwell on it some more for the rest. I hope the link comes through

 

[simple_soul]

The soul sustains human bodily life, and continues living after the body dies. This is inherent to the nature of the soul, designed, created, and held in existence by God.

The Holy Spirit is the “Breath of Life” in terms of the Divine Life that is Grace. Grace is not so much an element of human nature, but a sharing of the Divine Nature with humans. We do not become Divine by nature through Grace, but we do share in what it is to be Divine, much as a rod of iron shares in what it means to be fire when it is heated by fire and becomes bright and hot.

Peace and God bless!

Hi Ghosty, So in our sharing of the Divine Nature one could say that God is in us but it does not make us God?

 

[chaunceygardner]

from simple soul
Hello all
I found a General Audience from Pope Benedict the XVI where he is refering to the Holy Spirit as being in us and he refers to messages from St Paul. Please read and share your thoughts. It is titled St. Peter and the Spirit. I think this is in line with part of my understanding I will have to dwell on it some more for the rest. I hope the link comes through

This is a wonderful reflection. It certainly does address your question, as well as what I was trying to say about our soul, and the Holy Spirit. I did not realize the Pope and I were in so close agreement. I am humbled.

Here are some excerpts from Pope Benedict that seem to address Simple Soul’s question and some of the points that were raised:

It is as if to say that the Holy Spirit, that is, the Spirit of the Father and of the Son, is henceforth as it were the soul of our soul, the most secret part of our being, from which an impulse of prayer rises ceaselessly to God, whose words we cannot even begin to explain….

This, of course, requires a degree of great and vital communion with the Spirit. It is an invitation to be increasingly sensitive, more attentive to this presence of the Spirit in us, to transform it into prayer, to feel this presence and thus to learn to pray, to speak to the Father as children in the Holy Spirit….

There is also another typical aspect of the Spirit which St Paul teaches us: his connection with love. Thus, the Apostle wrote: “Hope does not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us” (Rom 5: 5)….

Furthermore, however, it is also true that the Spirit stimulates us to weave charitable relations with all people. Therefore, when we love we make room for the Spirit and give him leeway to express himself fully within us. …

We therefore learn from Paul that the Spirit’s action directs our life towards the great values of love, joy, communion and hope. It is our task to experience this every day, complying with the inner promptings of the Spirit and helped in our discernment by the Apostle’s enlightened guidance….

 

[simple_soul]

If you liked that one here is an editorial by Cardinal Roger Etchegaray titled "The Holy Spirit is the Breath of Life. I found this to be insightful also.

vatican.va/jubilee_2000/magazine/documents/ju_mag_01021998_p-1_en.html