Is God Masculine, Feminine or Combination?

[jkiernan56]

Is God Masculine, Feminine or combination of Masculine and Feminine?

My common sense tells me that a Painting always express something “about” the Painter. What is in a painting can only come from a person who possess what they paint about. If God painted (metaphor) man and woman (masculinity and femininity) - doesn’t God have to possess those qualities in order to Paint (create) them?

If God possesses feminine qualities, would it then be OK to refer to God as “Mother” rather than “Father”?

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a **hen protects her chicks **beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me." Luke 13:34

Thoughts?

 

[davidv]

Is God a Man or a Woman or combination of Masculine and Feminine?

My common sense tells me that a Painting always express something “about” the Painter. What is in a painting can only come from a person who possess what they paint about. If God painted (metaphor) man and woman (masculinity and femininity) - doesn’t God have to possess those qualities in order to Paint (create) them?

If yes, God possesses feminine qualities, would it then be OK to refer to God as “Mother” rather than “Father”? If not, why not? If yes, why yes?

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a **hen protects her chicks **beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me." Luke 13:34

Thoughts?

My first thought is that your mixing apples and organ. Gender (man, or women) is not in the same class as masculinity and feminity.
God is a spiritual being who has no gender. He is neither male, nor female.
He exhibits, as most of us do, both masculine and feminine characteristics.

369 Man and woman have been created, which is to say, *willed *by God: on the one hand, in perfect equality as human persons; on the other, in their respective beings as man and woman. “Being man” or “being woman” is a reality which is good and willed by God: man and woman possess an inalienable dignity which comes to them immediately from God their Creator.240 Man and woman are both with one and the same dignity “in the image of God”. In their “being-man” and “being-woman”, they reflect the Creator’s wisdom and goodness.

370 In no way is God in man’s image. He is neither man nor woman. God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective “perfections” of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband.241

 

[Zekariya]

Is God Masculine, Feminine or combination of Masculine and Feminine?

My common sense tells me that a Painting always express something “about” the Painter. What is in a painting can only come from a person who possess what they paint about. If God painted (metaphor) man and woman (masculinity and femininity) - doesn’t God have to possess those qualities in order to Paint (create) them?

If God possesses feminine qualities, would it then be OK to refer to God as “Mother” rather than “Father”?

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones God’s messengers! How often I have wanted to gather your children together as a **hen protects her chicks **beneath her wings, but you wouldn’t let me." Luke 13:34

Thoughts?

God is beyond creation. He is uncreate (not created). God created gender and, therefore, is genderless. Jesus Christ, in his humanity, has a gender. God has revealed in Scriptures that God is to be referred to in male terms such as “he” and “Father” and “Son”. Also, human males protect their young (or at least should).

 

[jkiernan56]

God is beyond creation. God created gender and, therefore, is genderless. Jesus Christ, in his humanity, has a gender. God has revealed in Scriptures that God is to be referred to as “he” and “Father” and “Son”.

The Father Begets the Son. The Son is eternally Begotten of the Father. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father. God the Father is referred to as the “LOVER” and Christ His Son as the “BELOVED”. The Father TOTALLY gives Himself to the Son and the Son receives EVERYTHING from the Father and returns (reciprocates) that love. That union of LOVE between 2 persons "PROCEEDS’ the Holy Spirit.

I would say that to say God is beyond “masculinity” and “feminity” and is genderless is to NOT understand what is happening in the Trinity. The love between the Father and Son is greater than that of any man or woman has ever been or writen about. The Holy Spirit is the “child” (proceeds from) of the Father and Son’s love. God is BOTH in my opinion in some spiritual sense - not a sexual physical sense. The love of God between the Father and Son is even greater than the sexual physical. Beyond sexuality or gender is NOT to mean that God is not even GREATER than what happens between a man and woman (or 2 persons of same gender to be politically correct). What I hear people saying MINIMIZES what God is and does not express the Greatness of God (who contains both Masculine and Feminine qualities). God is BOTH and even beyond in my opinion. There is a reason John Paul 2 said that Christian MARRIAGE in Theology of the Body (two becoming one and having children as a result of their union and love) is the most perfect image of God we have on earth (not perfect - but the most perfect). How can that be true if God is spiritually GENDERLESS?

 

[dshix]

My first thought is that your mixing apples and organ. Gender (man, or women) is not in the same class as masculinity and feminity.
God is a spiritual being who has no gender. He is neither male, nor female.
He exhibits, as most of us do, both masculine and feminine characteristics.

God is beyond creation. He is uncreate (not created). God created gender and, therefore, is genderless. Jesus Christ, in his humanity, has a gender. God has revealed in Scriptures that God is to be referred to in male terms such as “he” and “Father” and “Son”. Also, human males protect their young (or at least should).

Both of these answers are correct. Although Jesus was a man, God is not a gendered entity; he is of another category.

God has a masculine quality in His authority and commanding leadership; that is why we call Him Father.

 

[Zekariya]

The Father Begets the Son. The Son is eternally Begotten of the Father. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father. God the Father is referred to as the “LOVER” and Christ His Son as the “BELOVED”. The Father TOTALLY gives Himself to the Son and the Son receives EVERYTHING from the Father and returns (reciprocates) that love. That union of LOVE between 2 persons "PROCEEDS’ the Holy Spirit.

This is a misunderstanding of the Filioque. Christ never called his Father “his Lover”. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit love each other equally and the same. So stop with the “marriage” of the Father and the Son.

I would say that to say God is beyond “masculinity” and “feminity” and is genderless is to NOT understand what is happening in the Trinity.

God IS beyond gender. However, our Godly traits, whether “masculinity” or “feminity”, are found in God because we are made in the image of God.

The love between the Father and Son is greater than that of any man or woman has ever been or writen about.

Agreed, but you forgot the Holy Spirit in your list.

The Holy Spirit is the “child” of the Father and Son’s love.

The Father is unoriginate. The Son is eternally begotten of the Father. The Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father (note that the Catholic Church does not teach that the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Son).

God is BOTH in my opinion in some spiritual sense - not a sexual physical sense. The lover of God between the Father and Son is even greater than the sexual physical. Beyond sexual or genderless is NOT to mean that God is not even GREATER than what happens between a man and woman (or 2 persons of same gender to be politically correct).

Of course the love of God is not sexual. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit love each other equally and the same.

 

[jkiernan56]

This is a misunderstanding of the Filioque. Christ never called his Father “his Lover”. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit love each other equally and the same. So stop with the “marriage” of the Father and the Son.

I think you have should reconsider. There is absolutely and definitely a MARRIAGE between the Father and Son (a covenant relationship) … and espousal of love between 2 LOVERS.

 

[jkiernan56]

The Father is unoriginate. The Son is eternally begotten of the Father. The Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father (note that the Catholic Church does not teach that the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Son)…

I respecfully completely disagree with you. The HOLY Spirit ETERNALLY proceeds from the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit has ALWAYS existed with the Father and Son. The Holy Spirit ALWAYS proceeded from the Father and Son. You should definitely consult your Catholic theology books.

 

[dshix]

I think you have should reconsider. There is absolutely and definitely a MARRIAGE between the Father and Son (a covenant relationship) … and espousal of love between 2 LOVERS.

What a shocking suggestion.

Do you have some kind of proof for this claim? Cite the CCC where it says this.

I respecfully completely disagree with you. The HOLY Spirit ETERNALLY proceeds from the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit has ALWAYS existed with the Father and Son. The Holy Spirit ALWAYS proceeded from the Father and Son. You should definitely consult your Catholic theology books.

I’m not sure what you are disagreeing with. No suggestion has been made that the Holy Spirit has not always existed, only that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, not the Son.

 

[jkiernan56]

Have you not read the Song of Songs? Don’t you think the love between the 2 persons is allegorical for the Love between the Father and Son?

 

[Zekariya]

I think you have should reconsider. There is absolutely and definitely a MARRIAGE between the Father and Son (a covenant relationship) … and espousal of love between 2 LOVERS.

I’ve only heard this in protestant Theology.

I respecfully completely disagree with you. The HOLY Spirit ETERNALLY proceeds from the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit has ALWAYS existed with the Father and Son. The Holy Spirit ALWAYS proceeded from the Father and Son. You should definitely consult your Catholic theology books.

You should consult our Pope’s writings and the Church Fathers. I never denied the eternal existence of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Zekariya]

Have you not read the Song of Songs? Don’t you think the love between the 2 persons is allegorical for the Love between the Father and Son?

No, it is about Christ and the Church (his bride). Read the Church Fathers or even the Jewish Rabbis.

 

[jkiernan56]

What a shocking suggestion.

Do you have some kind of proof for this claim? Cite the CCC where it says this.

I’m not sure what you are disagreeing with. No suggestion has been made that the Holy Spirit has not always existed, only that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, not the Son.

Again respectfully - absolutely false what you stated. That is not what the Catholic Church / Catechism teaches. The Holy proceeds from the Father AND the Son. The Holy Spirit IS the UNION OF THEIR LOVE.

CCC #245, #246

245 The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life, who proceeds from the Father."71 By this confession, the Church recognizes the Father as “the source and origin of the whole divinity”.72 But the eternal origin of the Spirit is not unconnected with the Son’s origin: “The Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, is God, one and equal with the Father and the Son, of the same substance and also of the same nature. . .** Yet he is not called the Spirit of the Father alone,. . . but the Spirit of both the Father and the Son.”**73 The Creed of the Church from the Council of Constantinople confesses: "With the Father and the Son, he is worshipped and glorified."74

246 The Latin tradition of the Creed confesses that the Spirit “proceeds from the Father and the Son (filioque)”. The Council of Florence in 1438 explains: "The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; He has his nature and subsistence at once (simul) from the Father and the Son. **He proceeds eternally from both **as from one principle and through one spiration. . . . And, since the Father has through generation given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, except being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son."75

 

[dshix]

Again respectfully - absolutely false what you stated. That is not what the Catholic Church / Catechism teaches. The Holy proceeds from the Father AND the Son. The Holy Spirit IS the UNION OF THEIR LOVE.

CCC #245, #246

245 The apostolic faith concerning the Spirit was confessed by the second ecumenical council at Constantinople (381): "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and giver of life, who proceeds from the Father."71 By this confession, the Church recognizes the Father as “the source and origin of the whole divinity”.72 But the eternal origin of the Spirit is not unconnected with the Son’s origin: "The Holy Spirit, the third person of the Trinity, is God, one and equal with the Father and the Son, of the same substance and also of the same nature. . . Yet he is not called the Spirit of the Father alone,. . . but the Spirit of both the Father and the Son."73 The Creed of the Church from the Council of Constantinople confesses: "With the Father and the Son, he is worshipped and glorified."74

246 The Latin tradition of the Creed confesses that the Spirit “proceeds from the Father and the Son (filioque)”. The Council of Florence in 1438 explains: "The Holy Spirit is eternally from Father and Son; He has his nature and subsistence at once (simul) from the Father and the Son. **He proceeds eternally from both **as from one principle and through one spiration. . . . And, since the Father has through generation given to the only-begotten Son everything that belongs to the Father, except being Father, the Son has also eternally from the Father, from whom he is eternally born, that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son."75

Thank you for your citation. However, you did not address the point which I asked for a CCC citation on, that is, your claim that the union between the Father and the Son is a relationship of lovers, or a marriage.

 

[jkiernan56]

I’ve only heard this in protestant Theology.

You should consult our Pope’s writings and the Church Fathers. I never denied the eternal existence of the Holy Spirit.

But you do not understand WHO the Holy Spirit is unless you understand He/She is a divine distinct person in the Godhead who is the result of the LOVE between 2 other divine persons. That is why Marriage is the “most perfect” image we have of God on earth according to John Paul 2 - Theology of the Body

 

[dshix]

But you do not understand WHO the Holy Spirit is unless you understand He/She is a divine distinct person in the Godhead who is the result of the LOVE between 2 other divine persons. That is why Marriage is the “most perfect” image we have of God on earth according to John Paul 2 - Theology of the Body

Please prove that the relationship between the Father and Son is a ‘lover’ type relationship.

 

[jkiernan56]

dshix - “Thank you for your citation. However, you did not address the point which I asked for a CCC citation on, that is, your claim that the union between the Father and the Son is a relationship of lovers, or a marriage.”

I will try to do some research and get back to you. I think I read it in a book by St. Augustine on the Trinity. He is the one who speaks of God the Father as LOVER and Christ the Son as the BELOVED. LOVER and BELOVED denote a covenant marriage relationship in my mind - maybe I am taking it too far - but it is more of a gut sense I have.

 

[dshix]

I will try to do some research and get back to you. I think I read it in a book by St. Augustine on the Trinity. He is the one who speaks of God the Father as LOVER and Christ the Son as the BELOVED. LOVER and BELOVED denote a covenant marriage relationship in my mind - maybe I am taking it too far - but it is more of a gut sense I have.

I see where you are coming from, but going “by gut sense” in matters of theology concerning God, you have to be extremely careful. God is a mystery, and trying to understand Him based on personal beliefs or understandings can lead you very far down the wrong path.

God is not intuitive.

 

[jkiernan56]

I see where you are coming from, but going “by gut sense” in matters of theology concerning God, you have to be extremely careful. God is a mystery, and trying to understand Him based on personal beliefs or understandings can lead you very far down the wrong path.

God is not intuitive.

Please pick up a copy of The Trinity by St. Augustine. He explains better than I ever could. I have also heard and read many times that the Song of Songs is allegorical for God’s love - the love of God which is the very inner nature of God before the world/universe was created. It is a passionate love beyond anything between man and woman on earth.

 

[Elizium23]

Marriage: Love and Life in the Divine Plan
USCCB:

As we learn from the mystery of the Trinity, to be in the image and likeness of God is not simply to have intelligence and free will, but also to live in a communion of love. From all eternity the Father begets his Son in the love of the Spirit. In the begetting of the Son, the Father gives himself entirely over to the Son in the love of the Holy Spirit. The Son, having been begotten of the Father, perfectly returns that love by giving himself entirely over to the Father in the same Spirit of love. It is because he is begotten of the Father, and loves the Father in the same Spirit, that he is called Son. The Holy Spirit is then acknowledged as the mutual love of the Father for his Son and of the Son for his Father. This is why the Spirit is known as the gift of love. Here one can see that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit give themselves entirely to one another in a life-giving exchange of love. Thus, the Trinity is a loving and life-giving communion of equal Persons. The one God is the loving inter-relationship of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.