Is God really omnipotent?

[Gorgias]

Basically the context is that God is able to defy human logic, yet he willingly chooses to conform his course of action to it.

I don’t know that I’d call logic “human”, as such. We certainly participate in it, but it is neither our creation or invention, wouldn’t you say? We learn it, and it’s based on the nature of the universe and of reason, rather than on us.

If you’re willing to make that distinction, then it’s not the case that God “chooses to conform his course of action to … human logic.” Rather, it’s that God wills the universe, with all its dynamics, and sustains what He has created.

So… no “fundamental inability to defy human logic”, either, but rather a constant willing of the universe He created. By the same token, it’s not a constraint on “God’s power to just what humans can understand”, but rather, that humans understand some or much of what God has created.

 

[Vico]

…
Even an omnipotent being needs to obey the rules. Which would seem to make Them not quite so omnipotent.

The rule is that nothing contradictory to divine nature is a power of The Holy Trinity.

 

[Gorgias]

in order for God to create the reality that we see around us, He has to obey some very specific rules. Rules that dictate exactly what it is that God can and cannot create. Rules such as the “ Law of Noncontradiction ” and the “ Principle of Sufficient Reason ”.

Now strictly speaking God may not be restricted by these rules, but if He wants to create the coherent reality that we see around us, then there are indeed certain rules that He cannot violate. This would seem to severely restrict God’s creative potential.

Wait – you’re suggesting that, if got created the framework under which reality exists, He’s “restricted”? Umm… He created it.

Even an omnipotent being needs to obey the rules. Which would seem to make Them not quite so omnipotent.

So… since God willed all of creation, and acts consistently in concert with that creation, He’s “limited”? You have an odd idea of what “limitation” means, friend…

 

[lelinator]

When we use the word laws we think of things that could be broken or could be other in some alternate world. That’s not the case for either the LNC or PSR. There is no metaphysical possibility for these not to be true of being or for being to be otherwise.

I concur, there’s no conceivable world in which the LNC and PSR do not apply.

Are you saying God must create impressive things to be God?

Essentially…yes. Although I wouldn’t necessarily describe them as being “impressive”. If one wishes to differentiate between a naturally occurring first cause, and a creator with intent, then there must be some evidence of that intent. But one must keep in mind, that the appearance of intent doesn’t necessarily prove the existence of intent. As I have previously pointed out, even a naturally occurring reality would have to abide by the same laws that apply to a so-called “creator”, including God.

The rule is that nothing contradictory to divine nature is a power of The Holy Trinity.

One could indeed assert that such rules are simply a part of the divine nature, and not something which acts to inhibit the divine nature, but one could just as easily assert that such rules are simply part of the nature of reality, and will apply regardless of the nature of it’s “Creator”, and therefore produce the same effects.

 

[lelinator]

Wait – you’re suggesting that, if got created the framework under which reality exists, He’s “restricted”? Umm… He created it .

So… since God willed all of creation, and acts consistently in concert with that creation, He’s “limited”? You have an odd idea of what “limitation” means, friend…

The implication is that there’s no need for an intelligent creator if a simple natural process would result in the exact same result, given that they must both abide by the same rules.

 

[Vico]

…
One could indeed assert that such rules are simply a part of the divine nature, and not something which acts to inhibit the divine nature, but one could just as easily assert that such rules are simply part of the nature of reality, and will apply regardless of the nature of it’s “Creator”, and therefore produce the same effects.

Since the Holy Trinity is not created, rules of creation do not apply.

 

[STT]

The word omnipotent at best is ambiguous since things are either logically doable or not.

 

[SSJ]

Not sure if I’ve read this correctly. Would that be an assumption that “a natural process” and “an intelligent creator” are mutually exclusive?

 

[lelinator]

Not sure if I’ve read this correctly. Would that be an assumption that “a natural process” and “an intelligent creator” are mutually exclusive?

They’re absolutely NOT mutually exclusive. But if a natural process would result in the same outcome as an intelligent creator, then it’s reasonable to wonder if there really is an intelligent creator at all.

 

[Gorgias]

The implication is that there’s no need for an intelligent creator if a simple natural process would result in the exact same result, given that they must both abide by the same rules.

This seems like a non sequitur. We went from your claim that “God is limited by His own self” to “a simple natural process results in [creation]”?

In any case, there’s no evidence of a “simple natural process”, is there?

 

[kapp19]

We only look backwards toward God. The “rules” are what Being simply “is” - so… the Logos is not threatened by this kind of argument, is He.

As an Article of Faith, we believe that God made all things through the Word, the Logos… Food for thought. The inner Wisdom of God is the “lens” through which all was created from nothing.

 

[John_Martin]

There is not anything known by God that is not done as he knows it. No “potential TO DO list” as yet temporally unknown or “future” to the LORD that would enable questions about his “potentiality” as if he were not fully in act.

 

[DSMJR]

Can God create a rock heavy enough that He can’t lift it? No, because God has infinite power. Which means that the rock’s weight must be heavier than infinity, which is incoherent, since infinity means unending you can’t have something that is more than unending.

Can God contradict himself? No, because contradiction is a form of imperfection, and God is perfect.

 

[AlNg]

A friend posed me a question on the paradox of God’s omnipotence.

It seems to me possible that there might be some small limitations in God’s omnipotence.