Is God's Love Unconditional? (Mormon teaching?)

[rmcmullan]

There’s a web posting that seems to suggest some confusion over whether or not God’s love is unconditional, aimed especially at Mormons.

conditional_love.htm

I always assumed that there is *nothing * unconditional about God’s love. Jesus has the keys to Death and Hell and if you don’t keep His commandments, you go to Hell. Which is seperation from Him for eternity. Now that does not sound like unconditional love at all.

On the other hand, He does ove us for own own sake and our potential. But which is it?

 

[glenconnor]

I would state emphatically that Jesus is not a stern, forbidding judge, eager to weigh our sins against our triumphs to find us lacking.

John 6:35-40 tells us:

35 Then Jesus declared, I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.

36 But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.

37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.

38 For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

40 For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

That sounds like unconditional love to me. As well, let us not forget this great advice from Saint Augustine:

He who created us without our help will not save us without our consent.

He loves us just as we are, and wants us to be with Him. Therefore I say to you that if a person winds up in that place apart from Him, then it was no fault of God’s but of man’s.

In short, windy ramblings aside, We are loved by God beyond any human understanding. That comforts me when I fall short, because I know that He’ll still love me when I’m in the mud, and He’ll love me just the same when I am basking in the sunshine.

 

[JRKH]

There’s a web posting that seems to suggest some confusion over whether or not God’s love is unconditional, aimed especially at Mormons.

conditional_love.htm

I always assumed that there is *nothing * unconditional about God’s love. Jesus has the keys to Death and Hell and if you don’t keep His commandments, you go to Hell. Which is seperation from Him for eternity. Now that does not sound like unconditional love at all.

On the other hand, He does ove us for own own sake and our potential. But which is it?

God’s Love for us in unconditional. That should not be a question.
The question should be is our Love for God unconditional.

God Loves us so much that he will give us exactly what we ask for.
If we choose to Love Him with all of our heart, mind and being, then we do all that we can to be near Him. God accepts this and at death welcomes us into heaven.
If we choose not to Love Him with all of our heart, mind and being then we do NOT do what we need to be near Him. We reject His salvation and at death He gives us exactly what we chose for ourselves. Eternal seperation from Him.

Peace
James

 

[glenconnor]

God’s Love for us in unconditional. That should not be a question.
The question should be is our Love for God unconditional.

God Loves us so much that he will give us exactly what we ask for.
If we choose to Love Him with all of our heart, mind and being, then we do all that we can to be near Him. God accepts this and at death welcomes us into heaven.
If we choose not to Love Him with all of our heart, mind and being then we do NOT do what we need to be near Him. We reject His salvation and at death He gives us exactly what we chose for ourselves. Eternal seperation from Him.

Peace
James

Wonderfully put! I wish I had phrased it so well!

 

[rmcmullan]

Glenconnor, how about these passages from John:

17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

That doesn’t sound very inclusive.

And how can He not be a stern, forbidding judge and still be just? He forgives sinners but He cannot if they do not repent. Or do you not believe that?

 

[glenconnor]

I think if you truly love someone, and you wrong them, then if you have any conscience whatsoever you shall regret (repent) your actions. We would not be showing Him that we want to be with Him, that we love Him, if we make no effort to follow His path.

As for my phrase “stern, forbidding judge” I was attempting to convey to you that there is no ill will, no malice, in His judgment.

Besides, not only are we humans unfit to judge others, we are also unfit to judge ourselves. I have faith in His mercy and His judgment. His will be done. That to me is a great comfort.

 

[ParkerD]

Glenconnor, how about these passages from John:

That doesn’t sound very inclusive.

And how can He not be a stern, forbidding judge and still be just? He forgives sinners but He cannot if they do not repent. Or do you not believe that?

RMcMullan,
It sounds to me like Glenconnor believes in the power that comes into the life of a person from repentance.

For forgiveness to be conditional on repentance does indeed show love, whereas for forgiveness to be completely unconditional would not show love because happiness would not flow from a state of having not repented from sins committed. Happiness and deep inner peace and joy will always be conditional on living in a condition of personal “rightness”, and since humankind begin committing “wrongness” when they are old enough to think and choose to deliberately act against what would be the perfectly right thing to do in a given situation, then that “wrongness” brings personal unhappiness and needs to be “righted” by both personal change and by being cleansed from the baggage of having committed the wrong.

I don’t view Christ as a “stern, forbidding judge”. His loving arms are out-stretched always that we may know that we are loved as we are and that His love will help us change as we take the opportunity to change and become an improved person so that we can be happier than we were in the unchanged condition before taking advantage of His atoning grace.

 

[JRKH]

Wonderfully put! I wish I had phrased it so well!

thanks, but I can take no credit for it. It is actually a summary and paraphrase of the writings of St Catherine of Sienna in “The Dialogues”, section 27:

*…**Wherefore, know, that at the moment of death, they, having passed their life under the lordship of the Devil **(not that they were forced to do so, for as I told you they cannot be forced, but they voluntarily put themselves into his hands), and, **arriving at the extremity of their death under this perverse lordship, they await no other judgment than that of their own conscience, and desperately, despairingly, come to eternal damnation. Wherefore Hell, through their hate, surges up to them in the extremity of death, and before they get there, they take hold of it, by means of their lord the Devil. **

"As the righteous, who have lived in charity and died in love, if they have lived perfectly in virtue, illuminated with the light of faith, with perfect hope in the Blood of the Lamb, when the extremity of death comes, see the good which I have prepared for them, and embrace it with the arms of love, holding fast with pressure of love to Me, the Supreme and Eternal Good. And so they taste eternal life before they have left the mortal body, that is, before the soul be separated from the body… *

Peace
James