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Shana
Guest
Is going say, 70 in a 65 zone a sin if the roads are good? What about areas where the flow of traffic is a little over the speed limit and it would be more dangerous to go slower?
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saskatoon
Guest
no. authorities know that people will generally go at least 5mph over the posted speed limit. most people are not pulled over for that, cops usually want the bigger fish, the ones who do 20+ over. I usually go with the flow of the traffic, but not slower. I am always more cautious in construction zones, don’t want to chance one of THOSE tickets!!! 
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DavidMark
Guest
You can get smashed up dead going the speed limit!
Is accidental death a sin? Maybe it was s sin to get the car.
Is accidental death a sin? Maybe it was s sin to get the car.
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wjp984
Guest
If a law is not ordinarily enforced or if it is the custom to have the law a certain way, then it would not be sinful to break it. Generally, going 5 or even 10 miles over the speed limit is not ordinarily enforced. It is also custom to go about 5-10 miles over the speed limit knowing you will not get a ticket. Therefore, it would not be sinful to follow the custom which generally is you will get a ticket and are breaking the law only if you are going more than 10 miles over the speed limit.
Of course if you are in a school zone then maybe 10 miles over is too much and if you are on a desert highway perhaps the leeway may extend to as much as 15 over. It’s all discretionary to the cop so how can that be a sin if it is discretionary? The only sin would be disobediance to the authority with discretion which would mean causing a police chase by not pulling over or not paying the fine, etc.
Of course if you are in a school zone then maybe 10 miles over is too much and if you are on a desert highway perhaps the leeway may extend to as much as 15 over. It’s all discretionary to the cop so how can that be a sin if it is discretionary? The only sin would be disobediance to the authority with discretion which would mean causing a police chase by not pulling over or not paying the fine, etc.
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DavidFilmer
Guest
Breaking a civil law is not, in itself, sinful.
I don’t recall ever taking any vow to never break the speed limit when I got my driver’s license, so I violate no promise or trust if I do so.
So the question is, is it *immoral *to exceed the speed limit? (in order for it to be sinful, it must be immoral, not just illegal).
It is immoral to put yourself or others (or property) at unnecessary risk (thus, we should drive slower than the speed limit when conditions, such as fog, are below average).
May we morally drive faster than the speed limit if conditions are better than average? I say yeah.
I don’t recall ever taking any vow to never break the speed limit when I got my driver’s license, so I violate no promise or trust if I do so.
So the question is, is it *immoral *to exceed the speed limit? (in order for it to be sinful, it must be immoral, not just illegal).
It is immoral to put yourself or others (or property) at unnecessary risk (thus, we should drive slower than the speed limit when conditions, such as fog, are below average).
May we morally drive faster than the speed limit if conditions are better than average? I say yeah.
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wjp984
Guest
I think all the venial sins of impatience people do while driving by being angry about traffic, cursing, weaving, etc. are more relevant to morality than whether they are breaking the speed limit.
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ricmat
Guest
In general, the 4th commandment obliges us to obey valid authorities, unless a law contradicts God’s divine law. The DMV would be a valid authority, and I don’t see any reason why a speed limit would contradict God’s law.
That being said, if the speed limit is 65 and everybody is going 85 (not uncommon around here), then going 65 could actually be hazardous to yourself and others - which would put you in violation of the 5th commandment.
So I’d say “go with the flow.” But if you are on the road by yourself, go 65.
IMHO.
That being said, if the speed limit is 65 and everybody is going 85 (not uncommon around here), then going 65 could actually be hazardous to yourself and others - which would put you in violation of the 5th commandment.
So I’d say “go with the flow.” But if you are on the road by yourself, go 65.
IMHO.
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surritter
Guest
I would say that we are obliged to obey competent authority over us. So if the speed limit is set at 65, it is disobedient to go over 65. To play games about whether or not it’s enforced is kinda sidestepping the issue.
The concept of driving over 65 mph itself is not sinful. The topic is obeying authority. Another example: Eating meat on the Fridays of Lent is not intrinsically wrong. But to do so is wrong because it is disobeying the competent authority of the Church.
That said, the business about keeping up with traffic is a mitigating factor in how much guilt one incurs.
The concept of driving over 65 mph itself is not sinful. The topic is obeying authority. Another example: Eating meat on the Fridays of Lent is not intrinsically wrong. But to do so is wrong because it is disobeying the competent authority of the Church.
That said, the business about keeping up with traffic is a mitigating factor in how much guilt one incurs.
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wjp984
Guest
Not necessarily. Think of the party example. Party starts at 8. Does that mean you should show up right at 8? No. It is customary to arrive a little late.
Similarly, though the speed limit may be 65, it is customary for that to really mean the speed limit is 70-75ish. If it is is 75, then it is probably customary to mean as much as 90ish.
If the police wanted to enforce a speed limit of 65 they would lower the speed limit to 55 or start giving out tickets for people going 1 mile over the speed limit.
Similarly, though the speed limit may be 65, it is customary for that to really mean the speed limit is 70-75ish. If it is is 75, then it is probably customary to mean as much as 90ish.
If the police wanted to enforce a speed limit of 65 they would lower the speed limit to 55 or start giving out tickets for people going 1 mile over the speed limit.
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surritter
Guest
When we are told that “the party starts at 8,” that is not intended to be a law. So that is not a valid comparison.
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Holly3278
Guest
I asked my priest this very same question once and he told me that no, it is not a sin but that any more over the speed limit than that is pushing it.
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surritter
Guest
FYI – I don’t claim to observe the speed limit myself. 
And I’m not saying that going 66 mph is always sinful. We’re just talking about the objective morality.
But if the law as it’s written is “fudgeable,” as most of the posts above claim, then why not with other laws? Of course the results of going 66 mph won’t be that bad, but the point is the disobedience, or disregard for proper law.
And I’m not saying that going 66 mph is always sinful. We’re just talking about the objective morality.
But if the law as it’s written is “fudgeable,” as most of the posts above claim, then why not with other laws? Of course the results of going 66 mph won’t be that bad, but the point is the disobedience, or disregard for proper law.
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DavidMark
Guest
This is interesting. Could you elaborate on it?
It seems our heart needs solace if we’re cursing!
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wjp984
Guest
But that begs the question of whether the speed limit set at 65 is really intended to be the law? In my opinion, the intended law is for 70ish to 75 when the speed limit is posted t 65 and psycologically, authorities know that they should post a speed limit a few miles lower than what the actual speed limit should be for this reason. It helps everyone. It makes people more happy with authority for leniency and the authority gets to enforce what they really want the law to be.
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ricko
Guest
You sound like a teenager. Really, you’ve got to be kidding. Do you actually believe that if the speed limit is 65 and you go over 70 you’re not breaking the law? How far do you think you’ll get telling that to the judge? It is usually up to the officers discretion as to who he pulls over but he could pull over anyone going over the speed LIMIT. Look up the word “limit”. They usually give a break up to 5 mph over. Your opinion does not count at all. Show us in the law where “the intended law is for 70 to 75 for a speed limit of 65” Tell that to the court and see if everybody doesn’t laugh their heads off!
Q: I admit it: I drive fast, since I hate wasting time in traffic and I have a long commute. Someone told me speeding is a mortal sin. Huh? Isn’t the speed limit a law of man and not of God?
A: Yes, but breaking the speed limit can be a mortal sin if it threatens harm to you or anyone else. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says, “The virtue of temperance disposes us to avoid every kind of excess: the abuse of food, alcohol, tobacco, or medicine. Those incur grave guilt who, by drunkenness or love of speed, endanger their own and others’ safety on the road, at sea, or in the air” (CCC 2290).
Catholic Answers
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wjp984
Guest
Actually, depending on the state I might get very far with that argument. Not every state has a strict liability speed limit. Some states are prima facie which means that they need to prove guilt. Therefore, going five miles over the speed limit as what is customary to do and still within safe reasonable standards would be an available defense.
Now, will I ever get the chance to use this defense? Probably not since no officer is going to pull me over for going 5 over and probably not ever for going 10 over unless I am in a school zone or some other slow zone where the judge would just laught at me if I tried to pull a prima facie defense of driving safely. So I respectfully disagree.
Finally, to my knowledge, the jurisdictions thave have a prima facie speed limit usually apply strict liability at the range of 5-10 miles over the speed limit so I think my conjectures are good for why it is no sin at all to speed within that range,
Now, will I ever get the chance to use this defense? Probably not since no officer is going to pull me over for going 5 over and probably not ever for going 10 over unless I am in a school zone or some other slow zone where the judge would just laught at me if I tried to pull a prima facie defense of driving safely. So I respectfully disagree.
Finally, to my knowledge, the jurisdictions thave have a prima facie speed limit usually apply strict liability at the range of 5-10 miles over the speed limit so I think my conjectures are good for why it is no sin at all to speed within that range,
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wjp984
Guest
I should have quoted the post before me, but did not, so sorry if it is confusing. Here is a link to the prima facie rules v. strict liability for the various states:
mit.edu/~jfc/laws.html
My point is certainly valid.
mit.edu/~jfc/laws.html
My point is certainly valid.
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ricko
Guest
Hardly. Three states have that rule and you must prove that exceeding the speed limit was a “safe” thing to do, which is rare. I think you’re just looking for an excuse to speed. If you ever do get caught and you use that defense please send us the court transcript.
By the way. Do you have any speeding tickets and how many?
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wjp984
Guest
It just so happens I am currently in one of them where it specifically says that drivers going 5 miles over are allowed official tolerance. Likewise, my domicile is one of the prima facie states so it is the law I would follow while there. Check at the bottom of the link I posted. If that is not enough to prove my point, I don’t know what is.
There are more than three states by the way. Many more have mixed policies which means you still can argue your case.
Finally, you are innocent until proven guilty and therefore sinless until proven otherwise I guess. If I truly feel I am not breaking the law and I have reason to back my claims up, which I do based on my jurisdiction’s policies, then I am not even sinning venially since I would not have any intent to sin at all even if I am later proven worong, which I never have been, since I have never been pulled over for being clocked at 10 miles over or less.
There are more than three states by the way. Many more have mixed policies which means you still can argue your case.
Finally, you are innocent until proven guilty and therefore sinless until proven otherwise I guess. If I truly feel I am not breaking the law and I have reason to back my claims up, which I do based on my jurisdiction’s policies, then I am not even sinning venially since I would not have any intent to sin at all even if I am later proven worong, which I never have been, since I have never been pulled over for being clocked at 10 miles over or less.
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surritter
Guest
If it’s written in the law that there’s a 5 mph tolerance, then go five over is not sinful. But that’s adding extra conditions onto the original question!
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