Is Guitar mass okay

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A few years back there was a proliferation of books regarding “Good enough”. I remember I believe, “The Good-Enough Catholic” (or maybe Christian). That’s pretty much the attitude one sees a lot of today. If you don’t let people be ‘who they want to be’ you’re trying to force them, you know. How can you be so mean and judgmental? Why should some perfectly ‘good enough Catholic in GOD’S eyes’ have to meet YOUR standards etc etc etc.

I love the Internet, Kindle, and other tech things as much as anyone but I’ll bet Satan cackled with delight --'This tech stuff is going to be the easiest way YET to get souls ‘down below’; just get a few Memes going and determine an Orwellian, “But I’m really the GOOD guy here, let’s just redefine a few things to our satisfaction” and arguments like this that Willikin of the Weald or the Goodman of Paris would have seen through in a heartbeat in the so-called ‘ignorant Middle Ages’ will be swallowed hook, line, and sinker by the 'best educated society in the history of ever".
 
I really don’t care for guitar Masses myself… It’s a fine instrument, but it seems completely unfitting to have as part of the Mass. Even when I attended Mass for the first few months as a non-Catholic, hearing the strumming of a guitar during the consecration of the host, Communion hymns, etc. seemed ill-fitting to me.

Plus, the presence of a guitarist at my parish is unpredictable (sometimes they’re there, sometimes they’re not, more rarely they show up late during Mass), so that can unnecessarily distract my attention from Mass as well.

I believe a fine compromise for traditionalists and modernists alike would be vocals only (no costly pipe organ purchase or repairs, and no secular instruments).
 
CRV said:
So no difference then. Yet, the poor over the past centuries contributed to the Church for these to be built and organs purchased, so why isn’t it done today?

We are better off nowadays than in the past, wrt our living standards, so my point was if they could do it, why can’t we?
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How much do they cost anyways?
 
I certainly hope playing the guitar at Mass does not invalidate the Mass since I play my guitar at three Masses every weekend…🤣
 
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If God can be praised with classical instruments, why not with modern ones? Is a guitar inherently irreverent?
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
Pre-Vatican II, it was the Holy Sacrifice if the Mass.
Post-Vatican II, it’s a celebratory gathering / family meal.
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The Catechism of the Catholic Church gives it many names. Celebratory gathering/family meal is not among them. I’m not sure where the pre-Vatican II and post-Vatican II conflict comes in.

II. WHAT IS THIS SACRAMENT CALLED?

**[1328] The inexhaustible richness of this sacrament is expressed in the different names we give it. Each name evokes certain aspects of it. It is called:

Eucharist, because it is an action of thanksgiving to God. The Greek words eucharistein 141 and eulogein 142 recall the Jewish blessings that proclaim - especially during a meal - God’s works: creation, redemption, and sanctification.

**[1329]The Lord’s Supper, because of its connection with the supper which the Lord took with his disciples on the eve of his Passion and because it anticipates the wedding feast of the Lamb in the heavenly Jerusalem.143

The Breaking of Bread , because Jesus used this rite, part of a Jewish meal, when as master of the table he blessed and distributed the bread,144 above all at the Last Supper.145 It is by this action that his disciples will recognize him after his Resurrection,146 and it is this expression that the first Christians will use to designate their Eucharistic assemblies;147 by doing so they signified that all who eat the one broken bread, Christ, enter into communion with him and form but one body in him.148

The Eucharistic assembly (synaxis) , because the Eucharist is celebrated amid the assembly of the faithful, the visible expression of the Church.149

**[1330]The memorial of the Lord’s Passion and Resurrection.

The Holy Sacrifice , because it makes present the one sacrifice of Christ the Savior and includes the Church’s offering. The terms holy sacrifice of the Mass, “sacrifice of praise,” spiritual sacrifice, pure and holy sacrifice are also used,150 since it completes and surpasses all the sacrifices of the Old Covenant.

The Holy and Divine Liturgy , because the Church’s whole liturgy finds its center and most intense expression in the celebration of this sacrament; in the same sense we also call its celebration the Sacred Mysteries . We speak of the Most Blessed Sacrament because it is the Sacrament of sacraments. The Eucharistic species reserved in the tabernacle are designated by this same name.

**[1331] Holy Communion , because by this sacrament we unite ourselves to Christ, who makes us sharers in his Body and Blood to form a single body.151 We also call it: the holy things (ta hagia; sancta) 152 - the first meaning of the phrase “communion of saints” in the Apostles’ Creed - the bread of angels, bread from heaven, medicine of immortality,153 viaticum . . . .

**[1332] Holy Mass (Missa) , because the liturgy in which the mystery of salvation is accomplished concludes with the sending forth ( missio ) of the faithful, so that they may fulfill God’s will in their daily lives.
 
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The Associated Pipe Organ Builders of America estimate the typical cost for a pipe organ for a small to medium-sized church is $200,000 to $850,000. They note that moving a small organ that the owner wants to be relieved of could be done for as little as $30,000. (A Catholic parish in Salem, Oregon, obtained a magnificent pipe organ from a local university for the cost of relocation, which was bid at $467,000. The value of the organ was far higher than that, but the school needed a taker who could remove it soon. The parish church, which I think has over 3,000 families, was designed to have an organ. The first $200,000 in pledges came in very quickly.)
 
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I play guitar at Mass twice a weekend. I have a beautiful instrument that I am fairly proficient at playing. I play it reverently. We are a group of five female vocals and one acoustic guitar to give the singing a little support. There is an organ in the church but we have no one to play it. Given the choice between light guitar accompaniment and nothing, I know the people at my church will gladly take the light guitar.

It’s pretty hard to sing without an accomplishment of some kind. You can do it but it’s not as great as many here seem to think it is.

It makes me so mad on this site when I hear people slamming the guitar at Mass. It’s not awful and there’s nothing wrong with it. The people who come forward with their instruments every Sunday are just trying to help in whatever small way they can. It’s too bad some people can’t just appreciate it for what it is instead of slamming it for what it’s not.
 
PetraG said:
The Associated Pipe Organ Builders of America estimate the typical cost for a pipe organ for a small to medium-sized church is $200,000 to $850,000. They note that moving a small organ that the owner wants to be relieved of could be done for as little as $30,000. (A Catholic parish in Salem, Oregon, obtained a magnificent pipe organ from a local university for the cost of relocation, which was bid at $467,000. The value of the organ was far higher than that, but the school needed a taker who could remove it soon. The parish church, which I think has over 3,000 families, was designed to have an organ. The first $200,000 in pledges came in very quickly.)
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How in the world could it cost that much to move an organ? Purchase, perhaps. But move?

I dislike guitars and pianos at Mass, though aside from the “human voice” argument, I really can’t articulate why. Soft guitar music seems wholly compatible with devotion outside of Mass.
 
I have heard people play guitars beautifully. My own sister who is approaching her 70s has played professionally for decades. I’m the one who took the piano and organ and while I’m semi-pro, I’m not in her league. So I understand how it hurts when it seems people slam guitars. I also feel the same when people talk about ‘tinkly piano’ and how IT isn’t suitable either.

Probably a lot depends on the person. Not everybody is lucky enough to have experienced really good music at his or her church. The vast majority of people who are in their 60s and up, like I am, have experienced 4 or 5 decades of off-key, amateurism, music that is most suited for secular venues. The ‘lounge lizard’ piano player who plays technically well but whose constant swoops and tinkles render the already often syrupy lyrics and melodies into stuff that SOUNDS like you’re in a lounge or bar; the guitar players who obviously think they’re rock stars and play that way; if that’s been what people experience they often tend to associate the instrument with the cringe-y feeling. It really isn’t fair to do this, but it is hard not to. Just think, “if they actually heard somebody playing guitar–or piano–in church appropriately, they would appreciate it --and me–so criticisms aren’t personal.” Then pray that everybody DOES get to experience good music in church!
 
I have been to some pretty poor areas of the world that are traditionally Catholic. I have not seen a lack of Churches.
 
I can appreciate the idea of a guitar as an accomplishment for liturgical music. But the idea of a “guitar mass” conjures up the very worse folk music inspired hymns from the 60s and 70s. Many of them with theologically ambiguous lyrics, often in the first person of Jesus, often uninspiring, etc. We are still saddled with many of these. So perhaps the guitar in mass would be as accepted today as a piano is (which is a recent development) if it had not been employed so poorly in the past and did not have an association with music that people simply don’t really like.
 
No but the Church does have teachings as to preferences, at least as concerned an organ.
 
The pipe organ in my Cathedral, which was installed in 2008 cost $1.5 million.
Then there is the upkeep, which runs about $5k or so a year.
 
Loud-living-dogma said:
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twf:
Didn’t he issue new guidelines on sacred music just within the last year?
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http://www.ccwatershed.org/blog/2019/jan/25/archbishop-sample-new-letter-sacred-music/
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Read the article and document. The article specifically states that there is nothing new in the document and the document does not ban guitars. The only instruments that are mentioned specifically as unsuitable are electric guitar, as used in rock music, and drum kits.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
How in the world could it cost that much to move an organ? Purchase, perhaps. But move?
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I think this organ has 3,000 pipes, each of which has to be cleaned, voiced, etc. The housing will have to be different than at the original location. This is an extraordinary instrument, mind you. To build such an organ from scratch would easily be over a million dollars. Luckily, annual maintenance won’t be a huge expense.
 
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