Is having your tubes tied for a medical reason allowed?

[Adeodatus]

From the National Catholic Bioethics
ncbcenter.org/NetCommunity/Page.aspx?pid=385

Directive 56

A person has a moral obligation to use ordinary or proportionate means of preserving his or her life. Proportionate means are those that in the judgment of the patient offer a reasonable hope of benefit and do not entail an excessive burden or impose excessive expense on the family or the community.40

A per se illicit means can never be proportionate. Proportionality in moral deliberation only applies to those means which are conditionally licit or illicit; direct sterilization is unconditionally illicit.

 

[SavedByHim]

I really feel for your situation. I am pregnant with my 5th baby and will be having my 5th c-section in 7 years. I am scared. Like you, my doctor told me the “risks” involved with having multiple c-sections, especially so close together… and especially because with my last baby, as the doctor was stitching up my uterus, it tore because it was so thin. She had a hard time stitching it because of that.

We didn’t really plan on having anymore simply because of that, but we kept it in God’s hands, fully believing that if He wanted to bless us with another little one, He would also watch over me and baby during these 9 months. So, following the sympto-thermal method, we abstained at the first sign of fertility (for me this was fertile-like mucus). We then waited until we saw my temps rise. BUT, instead of waiting for 3 high temps per the rules of the sympto-thermal method, we decided to put it in God’s hands on the day immediately following the temp rise and “abandoned the method.” Despite the statistical unlikeliness of conceiving on the day after a temp rise (still very possible, mind you, but statistically less likely) we conceived our baby #5.

And this has been my easiest, most blessed pregnancy yet. I worried early on about losing the little one because of some spotting and my heart was just breaking at the thought. We’d already fallen in love with our little peanut! And so again, we return to putting it in God’s hands. My first appointment is Monday.

Anyway… long story short (too late!) I understand your situation. After this baby, DH and I plan to continue to use NFP and trust in God. And follow the actual rules better. While a tubal ligation would make things so much “easier” in some respects, I think it would take an emotional toll on us knowing that we explicitly disobeyed the Church. And even more so, I feel like it would be a slap in the face to God. As if we’re saying “We don’t trust you and don’t believe that you know what’s best for us, so forget you!” I just couldn’t do it.

I encourage you to take a course in NFP and learn the rules inside and out. Following the rules to the particular method you choose gives you like 99.9% chance of avoiding another pregnancy. I figure if you get pregnant literally out of that .1%, God REALLY wanted you to have that baby!

Sorry for being so long-winded! I hope and pray that you find peace in your situation.

 

[AmberDale]

And this has been my easiest, most blessed pregnancy yet. .

This is how I feel about my Peanut.

OP: I agree about learning other methods of NFP. Give you body some time to heal. I’ve not had C-sections but I have “grave” health issues. My high risk doctor really wants me to have my tubes tied, or at least use ABC. I won’t do it. He even told me that abortion may be wise… Sad thing: He works at a Catholic hospital :banghead: He didn’t say he would do it, but just the idea that he told me that! Argh. But he’s a great high risk doctor for my condition, and he did get me and my other two children safely. Now I’m almost ready to deliver full-term! After I said “That is not an option”. He said “okay we’ll get you as far as your kidneys will let us”.

Anyway- My husband and I are going to try to learn about NFP more, even though we did pretty good for 5 years.

So pray and learn more methods.

 

[joandarc2008]

Back when I was a barely-Protestant-more-Agnostic I did get a tubal ligation. I realize now how I much I did sin - but I realize that I did not have the knowledge and that God still has a plan for me through adoption later in life. I do have severe health problems and I know this will work out in the end. Maybe the timing of my conversion was part of God’s plan. I have confessed my sin and I know that in the end I will do the best to follow God’s plan however He sees fit. I envy you all in a way but it was my sin the best I can do is to keep you from repeating my mistake.

 

[AngelEyes4Jesus]

Thank you so much for all your thoughtful replies! Intersetingly rnough, speaking with our priest has confused me a bit more
I explained that I have health issues and that the DR recommnded a means to stop all possible conceptions. Having a neurological issue, I am unable to take most hormone pills. I was surprized when he sai dthe reason behind your actions are more important then anything, telling me, deliberatly taking God out fo the equation and using art. birth control becaus eyou feel you are done having children is a grave sin. Knowing you have a responsibility to stay alive and healthy to protect the children and care for the children you have is another. He went one further to say that the church condones medical intervention inclusing birth control if it is to preseve life–not end it or hinder it. 2 very diff. things. He said to stop worrying about it and do what is best for our family and myself–as long as it was medically recomneded and necc. and not a means of “controlling” our rate of children. he ended with a “God Bless! and go in peace.” How am I to take this?! I am more mixed up then ever! I felt better at first but upon thinking about it thougt to myself, a priest is just a man and could eb wrong…and thought how it has been sai dthat many priests both knowingly and unknwingly have led many ppl astray. I feel like I took 1 step foward and ten steps back.

In Christ,
Nicole

 

[quiet52]

This is how I feel about my Peanut.

My high risk doctor really wants me to have my tubes tied, or at least use ABC. I won’t do it. He even told me that abortion may be wise… Sad thing: He works at a Catholic hospital.

Please notify the bishop of your diocese about this doctor.

 

[StratusRose]

Thank you so much for all your thoughtful replies! Intersetingly rnough, speaking with our priest has confused me a bit more
I explained that I have health issues and that the DR recommnded a means to stop all possible conceptions. Having a neurological issue, I am unable to take most hormone pills. I was surprized when he sai dthe reason behind your actions are more important then anything, telling me, deliberatly taking God out fo the equation and using art. birth control becaus eyou feel you are done having children is a grave sin. Knowing you have a responsibility to stay alive and healthy to protect the children and care for the children you have is another. He went one further to say that the church condones medical intervention inclusing birth control if it is to preseve life–not end it or hinder it. 2 very diff. things. He said to stop worrying about it and do what is best for our family and myself–as long as it was medically recomneded and necc. and not a means of “controlling” our rate of children. he ended with a “God Bless! and go in peace.” How am I to take this?! I am more mixed up then ever! I felt better at first but upon thinking about it thougt to myself, a priest is just a man and could eb wrong…and thought how it has been sai dthat many priests both knowingly and unknwingly have led many ppl astray. I feel like I took 1 step foward and ten steps back.

In Christ,
Nicole

What??? Has this priest ever heard of a certain document called HUMANAE VITAE?! By it’s very nature many forms of birth control hinders life and has the capacity to end it.

Just because a doctor recommends it doesn’t give anyone a license to use it. There are certain cases in which using birth control is acceptable. For example, when a woman has very painful periods caused by endometriosis…the intention is to cure a painful condition, not to prevent conception. If the intention is to prevent conception, then it is illicit.

I’m sorry you got such bad advice from that priest.

 

[Rach620]

Thank you so much for all your thoughtful replies! Intersetingly rnough, speaking with our priest has confused me a bit more
I explained that I have health issues and that the DR recommnded a means to stop all possible conceptions. Having a neurological issue, I am unable to take most hormone pills. I was surprized when he sai dthe reason behind your actions are more important then anything, telling me, deliberatly taking God out fo the equation and using art. birth control becaus eyou feel you are done having children is a grave sin. Knowing you have a responsibility to stay alive and healthy to protect the children and care for the children you have is another. He went one further to say that the church condones medical intervention inclusing birth control if it is to preseve life–not end it or hinder it. 2 very diff. things. He said to stop worrying about it and do what is best for our family and myself–as long as it was medically recomneded and necc. and not a means of “controlling” our rate of children. he ended with a “God Bless! and go in peace.” How am I to take this?! I am more mixed up then ever! I felt better at first but upon thinking about it thougt to myself, a priest is just a man and could eb wrong…and thought how it has been sai dthat many priests both knowingly and unknwingly have led many ppl astray. I feel like I took 1 step foward and ten steps back.

In Christ,
Nicole

I don’t want to be the one to second-guess your priest, but I think that something is being miscommunicated here, either in the circumstances you told him or in the reasons/explanation he gave you.

Birth control or sterilization are not considered moral if their primary purpose is the prevention of births–whatever the circumstances. What is considered acceptable is when, for example, the hormone Pill or hysterectomy are deemed “medically necessary,” as in when a hysterectomy is needed to stop hemorrhaging after delivery or to treat uterine cancer. The principle of “double effect” is what at work here–one of the secondary, unintended effects of the hysterectomy is sterilization, whereas the primary desired effect is the preservation of the woman’s life.

From what you have described from your own situation, having your tubes tied would not be morally licit. There is no medical situation that I can think of in which it is necessary to clamp/burn/tie the fallopian tubes, except for sterilization.

Many others have suggested that you look into other forms of NFP. There are people here on CAF who have for serious medical reasons used NFP to avoid pregnancy for years–it can be done successfully. I’m a very satisfied user of the Creighton Model (or fertilitycare.org), myself, and one of the benefits of Creighton is ongoing instruction with a certified practitioner who helps you interpret your charts and figure out how to apply the rules to your own use of the method. God bless!

 

[AngelEyes4Jesus]

I think his rational is that the intention is to preserve me life secondary to the threat of life due to subsequent pregnancies. I can see both sides. I think this will take alot of prayer. I asked DH what he thought. He said he thought it would take months of fasting and prayer and discerment to know truly what we should do.

In Christ,
Nicole

 

[Seatuck]

Thank you so much for all your thoughtful replies! Intersetingly rnough, speaking with our priest has confused me a bit more
I explained that I have health issues and that the DR recommnded a means to stop all possible conceptions. Having a neurological issue, I am unable to take most hormone pills. I was surprized when he sai dthe reason behind your actions are more important then anything, telling me, deliberatly taking God out fo the equation and using art. birth control becaus eyou feel you are done having children is a grave sin. Knowing you have a responsibility to stay alive and healthy to protect the children and care for the children you have is another. He went one further to say that the church condones medical intervention inclusing birth control if it is to preseve life–not end it or hinder it. 2 very diff. things. He said to stop worrying about it and do what is best for our family and myself–as long as it was medically recomneded and necc. and not a means of “controlling” our rate of children. he ended with a “God Bless! and go in peace.” How am I to take this?! I am more mixed up then ever! I felt better at first but upon thinking about it thougt to myself, a priest is just a man and could eb wrong…and thought how it has been sai dthat many priests both knowingly and unknwingly have led many ppl astray. I feel like I took 1 step foward and ten steps back.

In Christ,
Nicole

Either
A) He may not understand church teaching
B) He wimped out
C) He doesn’t quite agree with church teaching.

If the conversation is accurate per your memory he gave bits of the truth and a very confusing twist that doesn’t quite jive with church teaching.

You may certainly avail yourself of medical treatments to heal or treat sick organs even if those treatments may cause contraception or sterility. What you may not do is willfully use contraception or sterilization to prevent pregnancy. If unable to use a very conservative practice of NFP we may choose abstinence for a time if we have serious health issues which cause us to judge that we should not get pregnant in the best interest of our families. For some couples this might be a lengthy abstinence.

 

[Adeodatus]

Intersetingly rnough, speaking with our priest has confused me a bit more

My heart began to sink when I read this.

Look, your priest may be a very holy man. I don’t know him and I wasn’t there. But “some priest said so” unfortunately doesn’t count as evidence these days. For every faithful, rigorous priest, there’s a guy out there who doesn’t understand Church teaching or doesn’t agree with it. There are priests who agitate against the Pope, who promote liturgical dance, and who make commentaries on the Bible saying that the prophesies are fake or the miracles are made up. Some priests can be the worst enemies of the Catholic Faith.

I’m not saying that’s the case here. Just that you can’t be hypnotized by the collar (… he does wear his collar, right?). You have to be real careful with this intentionality stuff. The “principle of double effect” can be helpful, but it can also get you into trouble.

Think of it this way: you’re the servant of a rich man. One night he tells you to get a ladder and follow him into the street. He takes you to the house of his neighbor. He says that he intends to fornicate with his neighbor’s wife; he needs you to hold the ladder so that he doesn’t fall and get hurt while climbing up to her window. When you object, he tells you that you’re not actually helping him commit adultery, you’re really just preventing him from falling and getting hurt.

In that example, the villain is merely renaming the action to something that sounds morally palatable. But that doesn’t change the essence of the act. Or suppose, and this is more relevant, that he tried to explain away the adultery itself! For instance, he might say that her husband is a very cruel and distant man, and she is at her wits end; he is not desecrating their marriage, rather, he is providing needed therapy for a disconsolate woman in need. Surely that would leave you rather unconvinced.

To get back to basics, the Catechism of the Catholic Church is 100% clear on this. Look at item 2399:
CCC (emphasis added):

The regulation of births represents one of the aspects of responsible fatherhood and motherhood. Legitimate intentions on the part of the spouses do not justify recourse to morally unacceptable means (for example, direct sterilization or contraception).

See… the intentions don’t count on this one, because what we’re discussing are “morally unaccptable means”. It’s like, you can’t commit a rape and then give a justification for it (imagine an episode of 24 or something like that). The ‘justification’ is irrelevant because the intrinsic evil of the act preclude justification in the first place.

Look also at CCC item 2370. Same deal, but more verbose. It calls those means we’re talking about “intrinsically evil”. As in “No, not ever.”

 

[rmbrulotte]

we abstained days 9-17 because day 9 is when my temp dipped. it went up day 10 and we remained chaste until 17

In Christ,
Nicole

I am sorry to tell you this, and I can’t go into a lot of detail on the thread, but you are not using the method appropriately for avoiding pregnancy if you are using a temperature dip/shift as a way of tracking fertility. The temp rising tells you that you DID, in fact, ovulate, but that is in retrospect. Let’s say that you had intercourse on day 8, but ovulated on day 9 or 10. You wouls have had fertile mucus in your vagina/cervix keeping the sperm alive until day 9 or 10.

Besides this, no method that I know of teaches that you should be using temperature as a sole means of tracking fertility.

Like other posters stated, you may not sterilize yourself to avoid a pregnancy. You may use NFP. You need to find a good teacher, **NFP IS NOT FOR D.I.Y.'ers **!!!
I have many friends who think that it is, and I tell them that the only reliable studies we have of the effectiveness of NFP (which is very good, by the way) are studies doen on people properly trained in a given method.

Please, please, do not get a tubal. There are many reliable methods of NFP with very high success rates for avoiding pregnancy, including Billings, Creighton, Couple to Couple, etc.

 

[AngelEyes4Jesus]

very interseting about the temp/ dip shift thing. My OB was the one who taught us how to use it simply saying, track with a basal b therm every AM before leaving bed. On the day it drops, begin abstaining because the day it rises is the day you ovulate. We were also using a fert. monitor which has faithfully pin pointed my LH surge as day 13. Hence why we were not abstaining until day 9. I pre emptively “knew” i would ovulate on day 13 but was shocked to see the shift on day 9 and 10.
I just wanted to kinda of red direct the thread here–it is not that I don’t agree with NFP, it s the the fact that beacus eit is NOT 100% accurate there is a chance of conceiving that worries me and the DR. WE are very much open to children and weould liek 5 or even 6 if we were blessed with that many.

On another note, I spoke with a diff priest today–one of whom I had never met beofre. He was very kind and patient listening to me sob and poor my heart out. He clarified that before giving me the churches tecahings he wanted DH and I to pray and fast togther then meet with him again, saying only brielfy, only God knows what is in your conciounse. If you choose to get a tubal because it is convinient an dyou are tired from having 4 under 4 ( once this little one is born) that is very diff. I understand you are tired, but the end doe snot justify the means. If you are hurt and upset that you can bare no others, but are open to children such as adoption etc, tht is entriely diff. So we are praying ( DH and me ) and meeting again w him next week.

In Christ,
Nicole

 

[1ke]

very interseting about the temp/ dip shift thing. My OB was the one who taught us how to use it simply saying, track with a basal b therm every AM before leaving bed. On the day it drops, begin abstaining because the day it rises is the day you ovulate. We were also using a fert. monitor which has faithfully pin pointed my LH surge as day 13. Hence why we were not abstaining until day 9. I pre emptively “knew” i would ovulate on day 13 but was shocked to see the shift on day 9 and 10.
I just wanted to kinda of red direct the thread here–it is not that I don’t agree with NFP, it s the the fact that beacus eit is NOT 100% accurate there is a chance of conceiving that worries me and the DR. WE are very much open to children and weould liek 5 or even 6 if we were blessed with that many.

Sounds like you didn’t get proper instruction on the Sympto-Thermal Method. I suggest you read the Art of Natural Family Planning by the Kippleys and/or Taking Charge Of Your Fertility by Weschler (however, Weschler does FAM where you use barrier contraception when fertile, meaning this is not in line with Church teaching, so just ignore that part). Her teaching on the STM is solid, however.

NFP can be much more effective if you follow the full method, not what your DR told you. Sounds like s/he doesn’t really know the STM. Also, if you use post ovulatory time for intimacy, as suggested, it is the highest effectiveness. Also, if you don’t even want to use that-- then there is complete abstinence as an option. Sterilization and contraception are NEVER moral options.

On another note, I spoke with a diff priest today–one of whom I had never met beofre. He was very kind and patient listening to me sob and poor my heart out. He clarified that before giving me the churches tecahings he wanted DH and I to pray and fast togther then meet with him again, saying only brielfy, only God knows what is in your conciounse. If you choose to get a tubal because it is convinient an dyou are tired from having 4 under 4 ( once this little one is born) that is very diff. I understand you are tired, but the end doe snot justify the means. If you are hurt and upset that you can bare no others, but are open to children such as adoption etc, tht is entriely diff. So we are praying ( DH and me ) and meeting again w him next week.

In Christ,
Nicole

What you seem to be saying is that this priest is telling you that a tubal ligation may be moral in some circumstances. This is absolutely NOT true. If a priest attempts to tell you that a tubal ligation is moral, run the other direction he is leading you astray. Maybe I am misreading what you are saying. It’s kind of hard to follow you.

The Church’s actual teaching has already been presented here: tubal ligation is **always **a moral evil.

The priest is correct that the ends do not justify the means-- there are no circumstances in which a tubal or other sterilization is moral.

 

[1ke]

Thank you so much for all your thoughtful replies! Intersetingly rnough, speaking with our priest has confused me a bit more
I explained that I have health issues and that the DR recommnded a means to stop all possible conceptions. Having a neurological issue, I am unable to take most hormone pills. I was surprized when he sai dthe reason behind your actions are more important then anything, telling me, deliberatly taking God out fo the equation and using art. birth control becaus eyou feel you are done having children is a grave sin. Knowing you have a responsibility to stay alive and healthy to protect the children and care for the children you have is another.

This is completely untrue.

The “reason” that you use contraception or get sterilized do not make these things moral. They are *intrinsically *evil. This means in-and-of themselves. There is NO reason on earth that they can ever be moral.

He went one further to say that the church condones medical intervention inclusing birth control if it is to preseve life–not end it or hinder it. 2 very diff. things.

This is another lie.

The Church does not teach any such thing.

What the Church does teach is that if there is a medical intervention necessary that has the unintended side effect of sterility it is allowed. For example, if you have to have your uterus removed because of cancer or bleeding or a rupture, etc, that is moral. The purpose wasn’t to sterilize yourself it was because the uterus was damaged. If you remove it, tie your tubes, etc, to *prevent pregnancy *that is NOT moral-- it is sterilization.

He said to stop worrying about it and do what is best for our family and myself–as long as it was medically recomneded and necc. and not a means of “controlling” our rate of children. he ended with a “God Bless! and go in peace.”

And this is a third lie.

A tubal ligation is never medically necessary to cure a disease or condition. Its only purpose is sterilizing you. That is a mortal sin.

Now, if your uterus needs removing during this delivery because it’s damaged that is not sterilization.

How am I to take this?!

You priest is:

(a) Poorly trained in Church moral teaching
(b) Deliberately leading you into a grave sin

I hope it’s (a) and not (b).

I am more mixed up then ever! I felt better at first but upon thinking about it thougt to myself, a priest is just a man and could eb wrong…and thought how it has been sai dthat many priests both knowingly and unknwingly have led many ppl astray. I feel like I took 1 step foward and ten steps back.

In Christ,
Nicole

You can count on the Catechism of the Catholic Church to teach you the truth. It’s already been posted here.

I urge you to get a trained Sympto-Thermal instructor. NFP did not fail you. You were not taught Sympto-Thermal NFP. You were using a ‘method’ that your doctor told you but that is NOT Sympto-Thermal. Who knows, maybe your doctor made it up. Really, get some training from a qualified instructor.

 

[AngelEyes4Jesus]

I just wanted to add, that although we are utterly shocked at becoming pregnant again–we are very happy for our surprize! I understand God has His own perfect timing and maybe if I had not becoem pregnant now, I wouldnt have been ble to in the future…who knows?! I just wanted to make sure no one thought I was angry about being pregnant, or upset and thinking that NFP failed us. I did pray to become pregnant “at the right time” I just didn’t know that now was teh righ ttime.

In Christ,
Nicole

 

[ALLGIRLS]

I’m also really confused about this method you were taught. I thought that when tracking your temperature, you wait for it to go UP, not down. My temp always went up after ovulation, then dropped the day before or day I started my period (unless I got pregnant, then it stayed up the entire pregnancy). For phase 1, I was taught to only dtd at the end of the day (this is w/ tracking cervical mucus and position), then abstain at the 1st signs of fertility (mucus and/or cervix change), then continue to abstain for three days after you’re dry (no more mucus), cervix changes back and temp, goes up. I don’t think a lot of doctors really know much about NFP. Oh, well, at least he didn’t think it was the rhythm method

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[Rach620]

very interseting about the temp/ dip shift thing. My OB was the one who taught us how to use it simply saying, track with a basal b therm every AM before leaving bed. On the day it drops, begin abstaining because the day it rises is the day you ovulate. We were also using a fert. monitor which has faithfully pin pointed my LH surge as day 13. Hence why we were not abstaining until day 9. I pre emptively “knew” i would ovulate on day 13 but was shocked to see the shift on day 9 and 10.
I just wanted to kinda of red direct the thread here–it is not that I don’t agree with NFP, it s the the fact that beacus eit is NOT 100% accurate there is a chance of conceiving that worries me and the DR. WE are very much open to children and weould liek 5 or even 6 if we were blessed with that many.

No form of birth control is 100% effective–not even tubal ligation.

Before you even think about tubal ligation (and you really shouldn’t, but since it’s on the table I’m trying to work with you here)–you NEED to learn an actual method of NFP. What you have been told/learned is NOT NFP.

As others have said, the temp shift only tells you AFTER you have ovulated; it does not tell you that “today is the day you are ovulating”. Temperature is NOT the most reliable sign of fertility. Sperm can live up to 3-5 days in the “friendly” environment of the womb in the days leading up to ovulation, so if you are intimate with your husband in the days before the temperature shift, you are likely to conceive. If you have been having sex up to the day before the temperature shift, you have for all intents and purposes been trying to achieve a pregnancy.

Also, while the day of the LH surge in past months can be helpful in seeing an overall picture of your average cycle, you cannot expect it to take place EVERY month on day 13. So many things can affect the hormones that cause ovulation (and the LH surge), either making it come earlier or later than you are anticipating. I would think that using the fertility monitor daily would be reliable enough, but I don’t know enough about the monitors to tell you that for sure. You should really look into the Marquette Model of NFP, which uses the fertility monitor and charting with its system.

Please, please, please, no matter what the priest tells you, learn a real method of NFP. I’d highly recommend Marquette or the Creighton Model (find a practitioner here).

 

[Jennifer_J]

If you and your husband are serious about needing to avoid any more future pregnancies, then you MUST abstain during phase 1 and 2 of your cycle–that’s from menstration through day 4 of temperature rise cross checked by 4 days past peak mucous, whichever is later, this is phase 3. This is the most conservative use of NFP. Having relations in phase 1 and 2 can/will result in pregnancy. These phases are fertile.

nfpandmore.com is an online manual to get you familiar with the Sympto Thermal Method because what your doctor told you is wrong…

Additionally, after this baby, you will probably need to totally abstain until your cycles resume, this would be the most prudent thing to do, IF you have a serious need to not be pregnant. Your husband will need to be on board with this, obviously, however, if it is a serious health issue, then that’s what needs to happen. It’s a serious form of fasting, but if approached as such, I think great grace can be obtained from the sacrifice.

There is also a formal method of NFP that uses the fertility monitor. nfp.marquette.edu/

May God bless you! You are in my prayers!

 

[rmbrulotte]

very interseting about the temp/ dip shift thing. My OB was the one who taught us how to use it simply saying, track with a basal b therm every AM before leaving bed. On the day it drops, begin abstaining because the day it rises is the day you ovulate. We were also using a fert. monitor which has faithfully pin pointed my LH surge as day 13. Hence why we were not abstaining until day 9. I pre emptively “knew” i would ovulate on day 13 but was shocked to see the shift on day 9 and 10.
I just wanted to kinda of red direct the thread here–it is not that I don’t agree with NFP, it s the the fact that beacus eit is NOT 100% accurate there is a chance of conceiving that worries me and the DR. WE are very much open to children and weould liek 5 or even 6 if we were blessed with that many.

On another note, I spoke with a diff priest today–one of whom I had never met beofre. He was very kind and patient listening to me sob and poor my heart out. He clarified that before giving me the churches tecahings he wanted DH and I to pray and fast togther then meet with him again, saying only brielfy, only God knows what is in your conciounse. If you choose to get a tubal because it is convinient an dyou are tired from having 4 under 4 ( once this little one is born) that is very diff. I understand you are tired, but the end doe snot justify the means. If you are hurt and upset that you can bare no others, but are open to children such as adoption etc, tht is entriely diff. So we are praying ( DH and me ) and meeting again w him next week.

In Christ,
Nicole

I am glad that you met with a different priest on this matter. Please keep in mind when dealing with this, that you are dealing with very grave matter. Choosing to have a tubal for the express purpose of not having any more children, despite the consequences of becoming pregnant, is always wrong.

There is no method of contraception, including sterilization, that is 100%. Even that has a failure rate.

You were not instructed properly in NFP. What your OB told you to do is actually the best way to become pregnant. Yes, the temp will rise the day you ovulate, but you are fertile for many days before that as your cervix produces mucus that keeps sperm alive inside of your body so that when you do ovulate, they will be at the ready.

Please, please, learn a real method of NFP. NFP IS effective when used properly, 90-95%. If you use only the post ovulatory days, the effectiveness is even higher.

Billings:
woomb.org/bom/trials/index.html
This shows a very high effectiveness rate.

irh.org/?q=efficacy_fam

Notice that the effectiveness goes up based on the motivation of each couple to avoid pregnancy:

Experts at the World Health Organization (WHO) suspect that among users of FAM, sexual-risk taking during fertile days - that is, having unprotected intercourse even when they know the woman is fertile - accounts for more unintended pregnancy than does inability to accurately identify the fertile time. Couples who use natural methods correctly to prevent pregnancy have only a 1% to 5% chance of becoming pregnant during one year of use, depending on which method they use.