Is he still a Catholic Priest?

[childofmary1143]

Please read the following link and tell me how a Priest can be Pro choice, pro gay marriage and still be considered a valid priest?

lifesite.net/ldn/2006/oct/06102406.html

And another question is this: What Archbishop Lefebvre did was wrong but compared to what this Priest is doing and his Bishop too isn’t that worse and how can he not be excommunicated??

 

[havemercy]

I’d like to supplement your thread with this question:
HOW IS CARDINAL MAHONEY A CARDINAL!?

 

[Stephen_C]

I’d like to supplement your thread with this question:
HOW IS CARDINAL MAHONEY A CARDINAL!?

That’s the million dollar question…but the fact is he is a Cardinal.

 

[StMarkEofE]

Please read the following link and tell me how a Priest can be Pro choice, pro gay marriage and still be considered a valid priest?

lifesite.net/ldn/2006/oct/06102406.html

And another question is this: What Archbishop Lefebvre did was wrong but compared to what this Priest is doing and his Bishop too isn’t that worse and how can he not be excommunicated??

“Thou are a priest forever” answers this question. (Post edited)

 

[prv]

Please read the following link and tell me how a Priest can be Pro choice, pro gay marriage and still be considered a valid priest?

lifesite.net/ldn/2006/oct/06102406.html

And another question is this: What Archbishop Lefebvre did was wrong but compared to what this Priest is doing and his Bishop too isn’t that worse and how can he not be excommunicated??

Whether or not he is holy doesn’t affect his priesthood in the slightest----although ecclesiastical penalties may be inflicted depriving him of certain faculties.

 

[childofmary1143]

Whether or not he is holy doesn’t affect his priesthood in the slightest----although ecclesiastical penalties may be inflicted depriving him of certain faculties.

Well isn’t that odd that Holiness doesn’t affect his Priesthood. What is Priesthood then just an old boy’s club where the only sin is don’t rock the Establishment then. I guess that explains some of the trouble in the church today. I guess Obedience to Bishop is Obedience to God in that the Bishop is God as to Lording it over others.

 

[chris_molter]

Well isn’t that odd that Holiness doesn’t affect his Priesthood. What is Priesthood then just an old boy’s club where the only sin is don’t rock the Establishment then. I guess that explains some of the trouble in the church today. I guess Obedience to Bishop is Obedience to God in that the Bishop is God as to Lording it over others.

hon, read some history. It explains some of the trouble in the Church over the past 2000 years!

Really, though, the vast majority of clergy aren’t fruitcakes like this guy, it’s just that the noisy nutjobs get all the press!

As to the nature of the Priesthood, well, yeah, there are some old boys in there, but the sacramental nature of Priestly ordination is permanent. Sadly, though, Priests are the devil’s first target since getting to them not only endangers the man who is the Priest, but it helps undermine some people’s faith and leads them astry as well!

 

[carol_marie]

That Priest needs our prayers.

Supporting abortion? He has the blood of all those babies on his hands.

 

[jemfinch]

Well isn’t that odd that Holiness doesn’t affect his Priesthood.

Not really. It’s no more odd than the fact that Holiness doesn’t affect a person’s Christianity: if a person is baptized, he’s a Christian, no matter how holy or unholy he acts.

Jeremy

 

[corvidae]

Holiness does not affect the priesthood. The main reasoning behind it is God is working, not the priest. The Donatist believed that anyone who at some point denied the faith could never participate as a priest or bishop again, that once you denied the faith you were lost completely. The Catholic Church fought this heresy.

St. Francis I believe, was once asked what he would do if he saw into the heart of the most sinful priest in the world at mass. Francis replied I would go and recieve my lord from his blessed fingers.

The priest holiness has no bearing on what God allows them to do. Their fingers are not blessed because of anything they are, but because of who God is.

We are all sinners.

A lone Raven

p.s. pray for me a sinner

 

[mchale]

Well isn’t that odd that Holiness doesn’t affect his Priesthood. What is Priesthood then just an old boy’s club where the only sin is don’t rock the Establishment then. I guess that explains some of the trouble in the church today. I guess Obedience to Bishop is Obedience to God in that the Bishop is God as to Lording it over others.

The priesthood is an office that comes with it, certain, God given powers to administer the sacrements. Once the ability to administer the sacrements, no power on earth can take those powers away (Though the Church may prohibit an individual from exercising those powers). Sin, is sin, and it is often not known publically whether the priest administering the sacrements has a pure soul. As a result, the sacremental power must be independent of the holiness of the priest otherwise many of the sacrements we receive would be received invalidly.

–
Bill

 

[prv]

Well isn’t that odd that Holiness doesn’t affect his Priesthood. What is Priesthood then just an old boy’s club where the only sin is don’t rock the Establishment then. I guess that explains some of the trouble in the church today. I guess Obedience to Bishop is Obedience to God in that the Bishop is God as to Lording it over others.

This thread has to do with the validity (Is he still a Catholic priest?), not the licitness of the priesthood. Has he been excommunicated? Only that takes him out of the Church. Absolutely nothing, short of death, can take him out of the priesthood. Ecclesiastical censures (including excommunication) take him out of lawful ministry.

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1584 Since it is ultimately Christ who acts and effects salvation through the ordained minister, the unworthiness of the latter does not prevent Christ from acting.[76] St. Augustine states this forcefully:
As for the proud minister, he is to be ranked with the devil. Christ’s gift is not thereby profaned: what flows through him keeps its purity, and what passes through him remains dear and reaches the fertile earth… The spiritual power of the sacrament is indeed comparable to light: those to be enlightened receive it in its purity, and if it should pass through defiled beings, it is not itself defiled.[77]

 

[mosher]

“You are a priest forever, like Melchizedek of old.”

The Sacrament of Holy Orders is the same as the Sacrament of Baptism and Confirmation. The three of these Sacraments place and indelible mark on the soul of the one who receives it and as such can never be undone. Now it is possible to remove a priest from public ministry but even if he cannot represent himself as a priest his soul is still different than that of a layman.

However, I must say that I am disappointed that the Bishop has not done this to him. This is a perfect case for a man that should be removed from ministry. He is already latae sentiae excommunicated by his material support of abortion and his public scandal to the integrity of the discipline of the Church. So, it also seems that in that diocese the Bishop is not doing his job which is primarily to be the defender of orthodoxy in his local church.

 

[childofmary1143]

“You are a priest forever, like Melchizedek of old.”

The Sacrament of Holy Orders is the same as the Sacrament of Baptism and Confirmation. The three of these Sacraments place and indelible mark on the soul of the one who receives it and as such can never be undone. Now it is possible to remove a priest from public ministry but even if he cannot represent himself as a priest his soul is still different than that of a layman.

However, I must say that I am disappointed that the Bishop has not done this to him. This is a perfect case for a man that should be removed from ministry. He is already latae sentiae excommunicated by his material support of abortion and his public scandal to the integrity of the discipline of the Church. So, it also seems that in that diocese the Bishop is not doing his job which is primarily to be the defender of orthodoxy in his local church.

If the Priest is already “latae sentiae” excommunicated then shouldn’t the Bishop too as by his doing nothing (when Basic Catholic Teaching commands otherwise) he is supporting what the Priest is doing.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Please read the following link and tell me how a Priest can be Pro choice, pro gay marriage and still be considered a valid priest?

lifesite.net/ldn/2006/oct/06102406.html

And another question is this: What Archbishop Lefebvre did was wrong but compared to what this Priest is doing and his Bishop too isn’t that worse and how can he not be excommunicated??

Erroneous opinions don’t stop one being a priest. Schism does stop one being a Catholic (or whatever).​

Some Catholic priests are atheists - they remain priests ##

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

“You are a priest forever, like Melchizedek of old.”

The Sacrament of Holy Orders is the same as the Sacrament of Baptism and Confirmation. The three of these Sacraments place and indelible mark on the soul of the one who receives it and as such can never be undone. Now it is possible to remove a priest from public ministry but even if he cannot represent himself as a priest his soul is still different than that of a layman.

However, I must say that I am disappointed that the Bishop has not done this to him. This is a perfect case for a man that should be removed from ministry. He is already latae sentiae excommunicated by his material support of abortion and his public scandal to the integrity of the discipline of the Church. So, it also seems that in that diocese the Bishop is not doing his job which is primarily to be the defender of orthodoxy in his local church.

IMHO, the rot started in Rome - and has not been corrected. Unfortunately, if the Pope does not remove rotten bishops, there is absolutely nothing we can do. Except put up with them - & try not to lose our tempers too often ​

 

[valient_Lucy]

Well isn’t that odd that Holiness doesn’t affect his Priesthood. What is Priesthood then just an old boy’s club where the only sin is don’t rock the Establishment then. I guess that explains some of the trouble in the church today. I guess Obedience to Bishop is Obedience to God in that the Bishop is God as to Lording it over others.

You misunderstand. A priest who is obstinate in sin can be disciplined, or even “defrocked,” in the sense that he is not allowed to perform the sacraments, to be in charge of a parish, or to serve as a priest. But he cannot lose the Sacrament of Holy Orders, because it is not dependent on his holiness, and the Sacrament can never be “undone,” in the same way that Baptism Confirmation can never be “undone.”
Matromony as well is another sacrament where holiness does not affect the status of the sacrament. A couple’s marital state does not depend on their devotion to one another. A woman who commits adultery does not automatically render her marriage null and void. When she returns home, her husband will still be her husband, both legally and sacramentally.

 

[mosher]

If the Priest is already “latae sentiae” excommunicated then shouldn’t the Bishop too as by his doing nothing (when Basic Catholic Teaching commands otherwise) he is supporting what the Priest is doing.

No, as one does not follow the other. However, it is possible for the local Metropolitan or the Holy Father to bring judgment against the Bishop who allows for such things. In this case a Bishop can be censured or even removed from his position at the will of the Holy Father. However, this is never done lightly as historically the Popes have never liked to exercise to hard of a hand in the discipline of brother Bishops as his role as Pope is always stretched to its limits when he acts with the full force of his immediate jurisdiction.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

This thread has to do with the validity (Is he still a Catholic priest?), not the licitness of the priesthood. Has he been excommunicated? Only that takes him out of the Church. Absolutely nothing, short of death, can take him out of the priesthood.

Not even death. Marriage is dissolved by death, but ordination is not.