Is Heaven Empty?

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djalk

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I told by a co-worker that he believed heaven to be empty. He said that those who have died are waiting on judgement and they are in a ‘purgatory-like’ place. I am not sure how to answer this. As far as scripture or some assurance that some have reached heaven.
 
Try searching the forums for “soul sleep” and see if that is what they are talking about.
 
There are a lot of beings in heaven; The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; the angels and saints, Mother Mary etc… There are a lot of beings in purgatory and we pray for them so that their time is shorten in purgatory and they could go to heaven. We believe the all the Catholic saints are in heaven, St. Thomas, St. Augustine, Saint Anthony Mary de Claret, etc…

“In the Holy Bible the term heaven denotes, in the first place, the blue firmament, or the region of the clouds that pass along the sky. Genesis 1:20, speaks of the birds “under the firmament of heaven”. In other passages it denotes the region of the stars that shine in the sky. Furthermore heaven is spoken of as the dwelling of God; for, although God is omnipresent, He manifests Himself in a special manner in the light and grandeur of the firmament. Heaven also is the abode of the angels; for they are constantly with God and see His face. With God in heaven are likewise the souls of the just (2 Corinthians 5:1; Matthew 5:3, 12). In Ephesians 4:8 sq., we are told that Christ conducted to heaven the patriarchs who had been in limbo (limbus patrum). Thus the term heaven has come to designate both the happiness and the abode of just in the next life. The present article treats as heaven in this sense only.”
newadvent.org/cathen/07170a.htm
 
Abba said:
There are a lot of beings in heaven; The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit; the angels and saints, Mother Mary etc… There are a lot of beings in purgatory and we pray for them so that their time is shorten in purgatory and they could go to heaven. We believe the all the Catholic saints are in heaven, St. Thomas, St. Augustine, Saint Anthony Mary de Claret, etc…
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I agree with this, but where I am stuck is how to show this through scripture and or some other writing that a non-Catholic might agree with.
 
djalk said:
I agree with this, but where I am stuck is how to show this through scripture and or some other writing that a non-Catholic might agree with.
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“Today you will be with me in paradise” to the good thief. There may be others, but that’s the one I remember off the top of my head (though I have heard people try to argue around that one).
 
Heaven is not empty, no.
God, Our Lady, the Saints, Angels, all holy men are in Heaven. Those awaiting heaven are in Purgatory.
 
Mathew 6:

1 TAKE heed that you do not your justice before men, to be seen by them: otherwise you shall not have a reward of your Father who is in heaven.

…

Thus therefore shall you pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.

10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.** (who is doing His will in heaven?)**

11 Give us this day our supersubstantial bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we also forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation. But deliver us from evil. Amen. 14 For if you will forgive men their offences, your heavenly Father will forgive you also your offences. 15 But if you will not forgive men, neither will your Father forgive you your offences.
 
djalk said:
I agree with this, but where I am stuck is how to show this through scripture and or some other writing that a non-Catholic might agree with.
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I need to go to sleep now, but, tomorrow I’ll check the thread.
 
Thanks for the answers so far.

I will reference 2 Kings Ch.2 where Elijah is taken up to Heaven, but what about Heaven not being opened till Christ’s death on the cross? Any other references to those actually in Heaven?
 
There are also passages in Revelation about the martyrs and saints in Heaven.
Apocalypse 8
8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven, as it were for half an hour.
8:2 And I saw seven angels standing in the presence of God: and there were given to them seven trumpets.
8:3 And another angel came and stood before the altar, having a golden censer: and there was given to him much incense, that he should offer of the prayers of all saints, upon the golden altar which is before the throne of God.
8:4 And the smoke of the incense of the prayers of the saints ascended up before God from the hand of the angel.
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The_Scott said:
There are also passages in Revelation about the martyrs and saints in Heaven.
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Also, this quote:
Apocalypse 6
6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held.
6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying: How long, O Lord (Holy and True), dost thou not judge and revenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
6:11 And white robes were given to every one of them one; And it was said to them that they should rest for a little time till their fellow servants and their brethren,
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Philippians 1:23 …My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.
(If being with Christ was not to happen until the end of the world, then Paul would have had not reason to desire “to depart” at that time since his departure would not have hastened his entry into heaven.)

2 Cor 5:1 For we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens…5:6 So we are always of good courage; we know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, … 5:8 We are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Luke 16:22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; 16:23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Laz’arus in his bosom…… 16:27 And he said, Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house, 16:28 for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’
(In this parable Jesus speaks of some deceased people being in “torment” (hell, or possibly purgatory) and some being in “Abraham’s bosom” (heaven). They are there while the rich man’s brothers are still alive on earth – so it is before the final judgement)
 
djalk said:
I told by a co-worker that he believed heaven to be empty. He said that those who have died are waiting on judgement and they are in a ‘purgatory-like’ place. I am not sure how to answer this. As far as scripture or some assurance that some have reached heaven.
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From scripture, its believed that Enoch and Elijah are in heaven.

Genesis 5:24.
23 The whole lifetime of Enoch was three hundred and sixty-five years.
24 Enoch walked with God,

2 Kings
9 When they had crossed over, Elijah said to Elisha, “Request whatever I might do for you, before I am taken from you.” Elisha answered, “May I receive a double portion of your spirit.”*
10 He replied, “You have asked something that is not easy. Still, if you see me taken up from you, your wish will be granted; otherwise not.”
11 As they walked on still conversing, a fiery chariot and fiery horses came between the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind,c
12 and Elisha saw it happen. He cried out, “My father! my father!* Israel’s chariot and steeds!” Then he saw him no longer.

Of course Catholics believe Mary is in heaven too, perhaps Moses.
 
The Heaven Elijah was taken into is in reference to the first heaven. That is, the sky. Prior to Christ’s atonement it was just as he said. Everyone passed through purgatory (if need be) then to the Bosom of Abraham - a place like paradise, only without the Beatific Vision. That is precisely what the ancient Jews believed. I’m sure there are some passages relating to the release from the Bosom of Abraham to Heaven with Christs death, but I’m running out and can’t look anything up atm!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosom_of_Abraham
 
Darran said:
The Heaven Elijah was taken into is in reference to the first heaven. That is, the sky. Prior to Christ’s atonement it was just as he said. Everyone passed through purgatory (if need be) then to the Bosom of Abraham - a place like paradise, only without the Beatific Vision. That is precisely what the ancient Jews believed. I’m sure there are some passages relating to the release from the Bosom of Abraham to Heaven with Christs death, but I’m running out and can’t look anything up atm!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosom_of_Abraham
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Stay away from wiki :eek: on matters of Catholic faith.

This is a much better article:

catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0741.html. 👍
 
djalk said:
I told by a co-worker that he believed heaven to be empty. He said that those who have died are waiting on judgement and they are in a ‘purgatory-like’ place. I am not sure how to answer this. As far as scripture or some assurance that some have reached heaven.
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Wow, you got a lot of scripture quotes here from other posters. 🙂 Perhaps now the ball is in his court. What arguments does your co-worker have to back his statement and what scriptural proofs?

Do you think that what you have been provided with here is sufficient or do you think that you need more? Is your co-worker Catholic?
 
Dear djtalk:

Here is another suggestion:

I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven–whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows. And I know that this man was caught up into Paradise–whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows–and he heard things that cannot be told, which man may not utter.

(2 Cor 12:2-4).

There must have been something there for St. Paul to see. (Paul is being modest, but the “man in Christ” who was caught up was Paul himself.)

God bless, Deacon Louis
 
Heaven empty? man, that’s a depressing thought …

**Heaven is not empty, no.
God, Our Lady, the Saints, Angels, all holy men are in Heaven. Those awaiting heaven are in Purgatory. ** 👍
 
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