Is Heaven impossible or improbable?

[GhostOfBBM]

The Apostles sure weren’t perfect, yet they all became saints.
And don’t forget good ol’ St. Paul who actually killed people.

Think about it.

Jesus literally picked Peter to be the rock upon which the Church was built, and yet he rebukes Peter pretty hard multiple times in the Gospels. Not to mention Peter literally denies Christ.

Clearly Jesus didn’t think that only those with perfect lives on Earth would “make it.”

 

[Latin]

Jesus said for us to be perfect like our Father in Heaven.

Well it’s impossible to be perfect.

Jesus said about the narrow gate, well that will be for the odd person so that won’t happen either.

So why suffer on Earth when you will probably suffer for eternity anyway?

You never benefit from suffering so what is the point in that?

The Church is praying for God to save everyone (1058), the will of God is that everyone saved, so God to save everyone CAN NOT be heresy. – With God ALL THINGS are possible.

We all should believe what we are praying for, which is God to save everyone.

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Everyone who is familiar with the Book of Jonah knows, one of the best answer that hell is exist or does not exist for the human race we find it in the Book of Jonah. – The Book of Jonah is the key of the enigma.

The Ninevites where probably the most wicked sinners in the whole world, their wickedness went up to God.

God promised destruction and hell for all Ninevites, NOT FOR THE REASON OF THEIR CONDEMNATION, but for the reason the Ninevites pay attention.
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Because we are not yet perfect, we need as much warnings of hell as much we can get, not because God would throw any of His children into hell, but for the reason His children to pay attention.

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Jonah 3:4; Jonah began by going a day’s journey into the city, proclaiming, "Forty more days and Nineveh will be overthrown.

For the reason to pay attention God promised distraction and hell to all Ninevites.

Despite of all threats and promises of distractions and hell,
God provided His Universal Salvation and saved all Ninevites:

Jonah 4:11; And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left, and also many animals?
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God promised destruction and hell to all Ninevites, and God provided Universal Salvation to the Ninevites.

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The same principle applies to the warnings and promises of hell in the New Testament.

God does not change, the way God threatened and promised hell to all Ninevites and at the end saved them all, in the same way, Practically apart from a few people God promises condemnation and hell to the entire human race , but with the same principle God will saves us all, if not, then Christ died on the cross for NOTHING.

So, heaven neither impossible nor improbable but it is a definite for the entire human race for many reasons.

God bless

 

[Vico]

Jesus said for us to be perfect like our Father in Heaven.

Well it’s impossible to be perfect.

Jesus said about the narrow gate, well that will be for the odd person so that won’t happen either.

So why suffer on Earth when you will probably suffer for eternity anyway?

You never benefit from suffering so what is the point in that?

You begin by saying the Jesus was not telling the truth. Have you considered that perfect does not have to mean absolutely perfect, which only God is? Definitions from Collins Dictionary:

1. perfect, adjective: Something that is perfect is as good as it could possibly be.
2. perfection, uncountable noun: Perfection is the quality of being as good as it is possible for something of a particular kind to be.

Catechism

302 Creation has its own goodness and proper perfection, but it did not spring forth complete from the hands of the Creator. The universe was created “in a state of journeying” ( in statu viae ) toward an ultimate perfection yet to be attained, to which God has destined it. …

311 Angels and men, as intelligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and preferential love. They can therefore go astray. …

 

[joseie]

Going by what Jesus said and by the description in Revelation,it is evident that it is very very difficult to be in heaven finally,that is after everything is over,and that very few will make it. Revelation gives unmistakeable signs.In the end God practically destroys everything with absolute vengeance except a selected few ,not because the expiry date of earth is over but because men became so much against God.The force and extent of his wrath against humans as described in the Revelation is terrifying.
So don’t take things lightly.Though not impossible go to heaven,the probability is very less unless God choose to give a general amnesty considering that most of his creations has become ineligible for it.But then this can’t be expected because though God is kind and merciful he is strict in his judgements

 

[phil19034]

Are we aiming for Heaven to end up in Purgatory for a few years? Does this logic follow your post?

I think so, yes.

 

[Dlee]

Jesus calls us to him with the faith of a child, to strive to live our lives according to His teachings, to love one another, to persevere and be faithful to the end. He also tells us to ask God to forgive our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. He knows we will experience sin/failure. If you’re referring to the verse in Matthew, I don’t think he is talking about perfection as you are interpreting it. We cannot be perfect - only God is perfect.You seem to be struggling with something, but I’m not sure what. Yes, the gate is narrow, but for anyone who knocks, the door will be opened. Salvation is a free gift - we only have to receive it and with God’s help, persevere to the end. We will fail and falter, but there is always the way to come back.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Dlee, you and a couple other posters who talked about mercy have it right.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of people on this forum seem to have this obsession with how hard it is to get into heaven and how few people go there and how we’re all teetering on the brink of damnation every minute, and how even if we make mighty efforts, the best we’ll accomplish is sitting in Purgatory till the end of the world if we’re very lucky and even in that case we should be thrilled with that outcome.

God actually has the capability to take us straight to Heaven if we do our best to live a good life and trust God and trust in His mercy. We do not have to be the most perfect human ever to do that and to trust him, either. I sometimes wonder if certain Protestants have way more trust in God than us Catholics do and whether God makes good on that trust by taking them straight “home”.

The reason why people don’t go to Heaven is not because they’re imperfect. It’s because they just reject the whole concept of God, heaven, etc. They turn their back on him, because they prefer to continue sinning or their human “logic” decides God is an unnecessary load of bunk and who needs him. God isn’t going to reject people who are making a sincere effort, even if they don’t all get an “A” for results.

 

[Dlee]

Well said @Tis_Bearself. God can take us straight to Heaven. We are all sinners, some of us choose to accept His free gift of salvation through His mercy and grace. Others will not. It’s up to us to choose to understand and follow Christ - and guess what? He even helps us! Blessings to you.

 

[leonhardprintz]

As with many things I embrace the paradoxes in Catholicism and believe that most Catholics (and many protestants), will reach salvation if they have a good heart. I also believe that I myself, if I stray, risk damnation.

I’ll let God sort out which is which.

But I don’t have massive anxieties about how sure my salvation is. I say a Hail Mary and go on with my life, trusting God’s Providence. I don’t believe anyone who puts their trust in God will be disappointed.

 

[Mboo]

You begin by saying the Jesus was not telling the truth. Have you considered that perfect does not have to mean absolutely perfect, which only God is?

According to St. Thomas, the lowest degree of perfection is to live without mortal sin.
If Jesus had simply said “be perfect,” then he who lives without mortal sin would have followed this command of Jesus, and there are many saints who lived at a moment of their life , without mortal sin until their death.
But Jesus said “be perfect as your father in the heaven”
so he invites us to always seek a higher degree of perfection possible

 

[GhostOfBBM]

I sometimes wonder if certain Protestants have way more trust in God than us Catholics do and whether God makes good on that trust by taking them straight “home”.

I don’t know that it’s Catholics so much as CAF. No disrespect to anyone, but this place has the greatest concentration of the scrupulous, hyper-legalists, and downright neurotic and depressed than anywhere I’ve ever seen. It’s people who see God as primarily a list of rules instead of a relationship based on love.

 

[Genesis315]

We’re not perfect, but Christ is. And his grace can make us perfect when we abide in Him. By being a living member of His Body, we will be perfected in Him (sometimes, the final perfection comes after death). We’re not the snow covered dung heap like Luther said, we are actually made just through and through.

The statements of Jesus about the fewness of the saved are statements of consequent fact–there are no odds that apply to our salvation, nor is it particularly hard.

St. Leonard of Port Maurice has some comforting words on this:

Brothers, I want to send all of you away comforted today. So if you ask me my sentiment on the number of those who are saved, here it is: Whether there are many or few that are saved, I say that whoever wants to be saved, will be saved; and that no one can be damned if he does not want to be. And if it is true that few are saved, it is because there are few who live well. As for the rest, compare these two opinions: the first one states that the greater number of Catholics are condemned; the second one, on the contrary, that the greater number of Catholics are saved. Imagine an Angel sent by God to confirm the first opinion, coming to tell you that not only are most Catholics damned, but that of all this assembly present here, one alone will be saved. If you obey the Commandments of God, if you detest the corruption of this world, if you embrace the Cross of Jesus Christ in a spirit of penance, you will be that one alone who is saved.

Now imagine the same Angel returning to you and confirming the second opinion. He tells you that not only are the greater portion of Catholics saved, but that out of all this gathering, one alone will be damned and all the others saved. If after that, you continue your usuries, your vengeances, your criminal deeds, your impurities, then you will be that one alone who is damned.

What is the use of knowing whether few or many are saved? Saint Peter says to us, “Strive by good works to make your election sure.” When Saint Thomas Aquinas’s sister asked him what she must do to go to heaven, he said, “You will be saved if you want to be.” I say the same thing to you, and here is proof of my declaration. No one is damned unless he commits mortal sin: that is of faith. And no one commits mortal sin unless he wants to: that is an undeniable theological proposition. Therefore, no one goes to hell unless he wants to; the consequence is obvious. Does that not suffice to comfort you? Weep over past sins, make a good confession, sin no more in the future, and you will all be saved. Why torment yourself so? For it is certain that you have to commit mortal sin to go to hell, and that to commit mortal sin you must want to, and that consequently no one goes to hell unless he wants to. That is not just an opinion, it is an undeniable and very comforting truth; may God give you to understand it, and may He bless you. Amen.

 

[HopkinsReb]

Jesus said for us to be perfect like our Father in Heaven.

Well it’s impossible to be perfect.

Is it? Or is it impossible to be perfect on this earth and by our own action?

 

[TheLittleLady]

Jesus said for us to be perfect like our Father in Heaven.

Well it’s impossible to be perfect.

Jesus would never tell us to do the impossible. Perfection is difficult in this life, however, it is fully possible.

 

[chessnerd321]

The essence of what you’re saying is actually a very good arguement for purgatory. Only the perfect go to heaven. But in His mercy some are allowed to complete their perfection after death.

 

[TheLittleLady]

You never benefit from suffering so what is the point in that?

If not for realizing the benefit from suffering, as when I was not a Catholic, I would be an atheist, a nihilist and likely dead by now.

Suffering causes us to become kinder, more humble, more caring, more thankful. While there are days and times when I slip, I often thank God for my sufferings.

 

[HopkinsReb]

The essence of what you’re saying is actually a very good arguement for purgatory. Only the perfect go to heaven. But in His mercy some are allowed to complete their perfection after death.

It’s how I was convinced of Purgatory.

 

[Sarcelle]

Jesus himself said that striving by ourselves, getting to heaven is impossible.

However with his help, grace and mercy, it is possible. We can avail of his help through the Church and its sacraments, living according to its doctrines and helping each other through corporal and spiritual acts of mercy.

God’s will is for you to be in Heaven and this is encouraging I think.

 

[Bluebright]

It’s not impossible to be perfect, just impossible for us without God’s help…with his help nothing is impossible for God of course. this of course does not mean that a person will be without faults as God may allow a person to experience faults in order to keep them humble and to practice virtues so that they don’t lose them, but it can be done, ie reaching perfection with the grace of God, many saints did and do it. God gives everyone sufficient grace to enter heaven, directly without the need of purgatory. But we mess it up and don’t rely on God enough, so rely on God more ask for his help more and everyone can go to heaven. Suffering, is medicine given by the great and wonderful mercy of God in order to help us go to heaven. If we are not given it, we should seek it and even ask it. Jesus says we are to deny ourselves and take up our crosses and to follow him. There is unexplainable benefit in suffering if you see it as medicine and not a bad thing or punishment. The gate to heaven may be narrow, but if you walk slowly humbly and patiently helping others you can all go through one at a time, there is no hurry because there is love and God is helping you. Of course it is just a metaphor anyway, take hold of God’s hand trust in him and you can do anything. God bless you

 

[Latin]

Catechism

311 Angels and men, as intelligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and preferential love. They can therefore go astray. …

311 WITH OTHER WORDS
We are intelligent and free creations of God, we are on the journey to our ultimate destinies by our free choice, by our free choice sometimes we go astray.
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The core of matter is:

Who is the first cause of our choice of our destinies?

Who is the first cause of our choice that sometimes we go astray? – We can say, when we freely choose and freely commit an act of sin we went astray.

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THE FIRST CAUSE OF OUR CHOICE OF OUR DESTINIES IS GOD

308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes: For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

2022 The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES , PREPARES, and ELICITS the FREE response of man.

St. Thomas teaches that all movements of will and choice must be traced to the divine will: and not to any other cause, because Gad alone is the cause of our willing and choosing. CG, 3.91.

THEOLOGICAL FACT:

THE FIRST CAUSE OF OUR CHOICE OF OUR DESTINIES IS GOD!

John 6:44; No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them.

While St. Thomas says that man turns to God by his own free will, he explains that free-will can only be turn to God, when God turns it.

John 15:16; You did not chose Me, but I chose you.

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THE FIRST CAUSE OF OUR CHOICE THAT SOMETIMES WE GO ASTRAY AND WE FREELY COMMIT AN ACT OF SIN IS …

THE MYSTERY OF PREDESTINATION John Salza

When God wills a person to perform a salutary act (e.g., prayer, good works), He grants him the means (an efficacious grace) that infallibly produces the end (the act willed by God).

If God wills to permit a person to resist His grace, He grants him a sufficient, and not an efficacious, grace.

EXAMPLE
The Mystery of Predestination by John Salza, Page 113.

However, the Church teaches that God infused Adam with sufficient grace to resist temptation and to perform his duties with charity.

God, however, willed to permit Adam to reject His grace and to sin. End quote.

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THE SAME PRINCIPLE APPLIES TO US AS WELL

When our wills aided with efficacious graces, we ALWAYS FREELY and infallibly reject the temptation of sin and we every time FREELY choose the good.

When our wills aided with sufficient grace, we always infallibly and FREELY reject the grace and we every time FREELY commit the act of sin.

The Divine will is cause of all things that happen, as Augustine says (De Trin. iii, 1 seqq.).
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The distinctions between these graces reveal that God is responsible for man’s salvation.
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God bless