Is hell a physical place, a place of eternat suferring, or is it just being eternally seperated from God trough death?

[Jon_S_1]

Not only did God create Hell, he sustains its existence. Not only can Satan not do anything without God’s permission (CCC #395), he doesn’t raise sinners from the grave or restore their physical bodies to be tortured.

All by free choice of the individual for Gods infinite plan.

God does not punish us. We are eternally separated from him by choosing evil over good. Choosing self over God

 

[Jon_S_1]

Your analogy doesn’t seem to go far enough. In order for the two scenarios to be truly analogous: At some point in the distant future the parent would also have to raise her child from the dead; reassemble all of his rotted body parts back into a conscious, sensitive human body; confine him to a place that the parent has constructed and sustains; and then physically torture the child for the rest of eternity – ensuring all along the way that the last bit of torture is just as horrible as the bit before. And none of this is done so that the child will learn from his mistakes and become a better person.

Of course, one doesn’t have to kill six million people to be condemned to Hell. All it takes is one unrepented sin.

As a matter of fact though, as I understand it, if Hitler (a baptized Catholic) confessed before his death, he would gain Heaven and escape Hell whereas any or all of his Jewish victims who had obstinately refused to accept Jesus – but who might have lived otherwise exemplary lives – would not. Where would be the justice in that?

True.

Truly REPENTANT Sins of even a great magnitude can be forgiven. Thank God for that.

No where however does the church teach that just because the Jews are Jewish do they go to hell.

 

[fred_conty]

Well it seems to me when God created the angels, and before he created man, some angels were “cast” into hell. But since they were pure spirits and nothing material about them, it could not be a place in the physical/material sense of the word. How could it? It seems to me that that would be a contradiction to their nature being immaterial. But God could allow them to feel pain in various forms which might be very similar to physical pain that a man might suffer.

And I would think that this would hold true for man as well since his body is buried in the ground but his soul or spirit continues to live even after his body is buried.
So man’s soul too would suffer and feel pain in various forms which might be very similar to physical pain tho there is nothing physical about them after death. “I am the God of the living, not of the dead.”

However when the last day and judgment comes and bodies of men are reunited to their souls, then there might be such a place called hell…maybe.

 

[clem456]

Not only did God create Hell, he sustains its existence. Not only can Satan not do anything without God’s permission (CCC #395), he doesn’t raise sinners from the grave or restore their physical bodies to be tortured.

God is simply himself. All loving etc… There is no darkness in God. A human being who knows how good God is but chooses against him is “in” hell. The darkness is in the creature, not the creator.

 

[mikekle]

St. faustina, in her vision of hell, stated that there were, going from memory, 7 pains in hell, the first pain, which is worse than all other pains, is the pain of loss (i.e. eternal and irrevocable separation from and loss of God). As we speak there are only souls in hell, after the Last Judgment, souls in Heaven will have glorified bodies, souls in hell will also have bodies, though not glorified. Imagine pitch darkness, bleak surroundings, horrible stench, hatred, total absence of good will and love, in the company of Satan and his demons, horrible despair, horrible imprecations against God etc.

Hell was created for Satan and the other fallen angels, to be a place for their punishment, So, while satan and the other fallen angels will be there, there is no reason to think there would be any interaction, after all, God said hell was their place of torment, so satan and his fallen would be suffering as much as a human soul there…if not more, since it was created for them in the first place. Plus we all know there is a huge difference between angelic/demonic beings and humans, so the ideal place for torment for an angelic/demonic being could not be the same ideal place of torment for a human (soul).

Another big problem I have with hell in general, is Many people say Gods love for us is something we cannot understand, and is much greater than that of a parent and child, yet ANY parent would not allow their child to be tortured for eternity, no matter what they did, I dont care if their child totally abandoned the parent after they were able to walk and never again spoke to the parent in their entire lives…that parent would STILL not wish their child to be in eternal torment, they would ultimately give them a final chance at redemption, If Gods love for us is greater than a parent and child, then I doubt God could watch a person enter hell, knowing that person will never come out.

I truly believe God gives a person a final chance to redeem themselves, whether its on their death bed or right upon their death, when they are standing before him, Gods love for us is eternal, so just because we died does not mean his love ceases for us in anyway, if it did, his love was never eternal to begin with. In Gods eyes, I believe he sees us for who we truly are, I doubt he looks at a person in terms of living or dead ,he sees us each as unique souls he created, so upon our death, he still sees us as something he created and loves. I simply cannot believe God would not give a final chance for souls to redeem themselves, and the fact is, NOT ONE person has come back and told us exactly what happens right after death…so we do not know for sure, it is entirely possible God gives each person a final chance upon death.

 

[mikekle]

Well it seems to me when God created the angels, and before he created man, some angels were “cast” into hell. But since they were pure spirits and nothing material about them, it could not be a place in the physical/material sense of the word. How could it? It seems to me that that would be a contradiction to their nature being immaterial. But God could allow them to feel pain in various forms which might be very similar to physical pain that a man might suffer.

EXACTLY!! I believe the bible is very clear that ONLY ones soul/spirit enters the afterlife, not ones body, our bodies rot in the earth and return to dust. Only 2 human bodies have ever entered the afterlife and these were under extreme conditions, which God made an exception.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I truly believe God gives a person a final chance to redeem themselves, whether its on their death bed or right upon their death, when they are standing before him, Gods love for us is eternal, so just because we died does not mean his love ceases for us in anyway, if it did, his love was never eternal to begin with. In Gods eyes, I believe he sees us for who we truly are, I doubt he looks at a person in terms of living or dead ,he sees us each as unique souls he created, so upon our death, he still sees us as something he created and loves. I simply cannot believe God would not give a final chance for souls to redeem themselves, and the fact is, NOT ONE person has come back and told us exactly what happens right after death…so we do not know for sure, it is entirely possible God gives each person a final chance upon death.

First, Christ came back and told us a lot about hell. He equated it to Gahenna which was a real place. Basically a dump with rot, disease and fires that never stop burning and insects that constantly harass.

Certainly not real pleasant.

He told us about Lazarus and the rich man in hell who begged for just one drop of water to quench his thirst amongst the flames.

So Jesus tells us a lot. Including much more documented in the bible.

We cannot reason as to why God allows evil. He is God and as he told Job in Chapter 38 onward. “Who are you to question me” “where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth”

The church has also clearly taught that after death there are no second chances.
Every trace of attachment to evil must be eliminated, every imperfection of the soul corrected. Purification must be complete, and indeed this is precisely what is meant by the Church’s teaching on purgatory. The term does not indicate a place, but a condition of existence. Those who, after death, exist in a state of purification, are already in the love of Christ who removes from them the remnants of imperfection (cf. Ecumenical Council of Florence, Decretum pro Graecis: DS 1304; Ecumenical Council of Trent, Decretum de iustificatione: DS 1580; Decretum de purgatorio: DS 1820).
**It is necessary to explain that the state of purification is not a prolungation of the earthly condition, almost as if after death one were given another possibility to change one’s destiny. The Church’s teaching in this regard is unequivocal and was reaffirmed by the Second Vatican Council *which teaches: "Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed (cf. Heb 9: 27), we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where “men will weep and gnash their teeth’ (Mt 22: 13 and 25: 30)” (Lumen gentium, n. 48).

 

[Jon_S_1]

EXACTLY!! I believe the bible is very clear that ONLY ones soul/spirit enters the afterlife, not ones body, our bodies rot in the earth and return to dust. Only 2 human bodies have ever entered the afterlife and these were under extreme conditions, which God made an exception.

Are you saying you don’t believe the Nicene creed?

“I look forward to the resurrection of the dead and the life if the world to come”

 

[TK421]

Mike:

If God allows a soul to choose for him or against him both in this life and when they are standing before the throne in glory, then why would this present life exist at all? It seems very strange that we would grow up in a world in conflict, having both good and evil in it, when God is supposedly just going to let us opt to pick him after we’ve died anyway.

That is why among the mystical body of the Church, those of us on Earth are called the Church militant, because we are on the battlefield, choosing good and evil. Choosing God after death isn’t a choice at all. It is an act of compulsion that doesn’t actually mean anything.

 

[thistle]

EXACTLY!! I believe the bible is very clear that ONLY ones soul/spirit enters the afterlife, not ones body, our bodies rot in the earth and return to dust. Only 2 human bodies have ever entered the afterlife and these were under extreme conditions, which God made an exception.

CCC 658 Christ, “the first-born from the dead” (Col 1:18), is the principle of our own resurrection, even now by the justification of our souls (cf. Rom 6:4), and one day by the new life he will impart to our bodies (cf.: Rom 8:11).

CCC 997 What is “rising”? In death, the separation of the soul from the body, the human body decays and the soul goes to meet God, while awaiting its reunion with its glorified body. God, in his almighty power,** will definitively grant incorruptible life to our bodies by reuniting them with our souls, through the power of Jesus’ Resurrection.**

CCC 1052 “We believe that the souls of all who die in Christ’s grace . . . are the People of God beyond death.** On the day of resurrection**, death will be definitively conquered, when these souls will be reunited with their bodies” (Paul VI, CPG § 28).

 

[Oren]

Yeah the Church teaches you DO NOT get another chance after death to change your mind. One you are dead, your will is fixed for God or against God and that’s that. Maybe the second before death God gives people a special grace. Who knows. Definitely not after death tho.

 

[mikekle]

Well, then that proves God does NOT love all of us eternally, even a parent dealing with the death of a child continues to love that child and would do anything for them (if they could)…they dont just suddenly stop loving them and most want the child to be free of suffering.

Humans do not live that long, most die under the age of 90, this is not much time, especially in Gods eyes, so if only have the time we are alive to accept his grace, then he does not offer it for very long.(when looking at the larger picture)

In the end, Gods love for us is either eternal or it is not, cant be both, so if a person goes thru life without God in it, and are destined for Hell, God already knows this anyway, and actually knew this before the person was born, so how is it that God is loving that person at all, when he knows full well, where that person will end up for eternity?

 

[clem456]

Well, then that proves God does NOT love all of us eternally, even a parent dealing with the death of a child continues to love that child and would do anything for them (if they could)…they dont just suddenly stop loving them and most want the child to be free of suffering.

Humans do not live that long, most die under the age of 90, this is not much time, especially in Gods eyes, so if only have the time we are alive to accept his grace, then he does not offer it for very long.(when looking at the larger picture)

In the end, Gods love for us is either eternal or it is not, cant be both, so if a person goes thru life without God in it, and are destined for Hell, God already knows this anyway, and actually knew this before the person was born, so how is it that God is loving that person at all, when he knows full well, where that person will end up for eternity?

Because God loves us, he respects our choices.
It’s about a relationship, not a transaction. If it were merely a transaction, God would enforce the transaction according to his whishes, like in a court of law.
But that’s not love. A loving relationship requires reciprocation. To force love is akin to rape.

 

[Jon_S_1]

Well, then that proves God does NOT love all of us eternally, even a parent dealing with the death of a child continues to love that child and would do anything for them (if they could)…they dont just suddenly stop loving them and most want the child to be free of suffering.

Humans do not live that long, most die under the age of 90, this is not much time, especially in Gods eyes, so if only have the time we are alive to accept his grace, then he does not offer it for very long.(when looking at the larger picture)

In the end, Gods love for us is either eternal or it is not, cant be both, so if a person goes thru life without God in it, and are destined for Hell, God already knows this anyway, and actually knew this before the person was born, so how is it that God is loving that person at all, when he knows full well, where that person will end up for eternity?

You create a false dichotomy

That if people go to hell then God does not love them.

Not true.

Saying so brings God from his role as Creator of the Universe and Sustainer of all life, to just another creature. It brings him down to our understanding.

God could have created robot like creatures with no ability to choose. That’s not love though. Instead he loved us enough to make us like him. To make us with an ability to choose him.

Then when we screwed up and chose not to be with him. He HUMBLED himself, lived among us, experienced our physicality and allowed us to brutally beat torture and kill him. He did this for us so we can be with him in heaven.

All we have to do is be genuinely thankful for his sacrifice.

If we are not. He allows us to go that way.

In this life one must actively work to deny God and deny his sacrifice. It is the ultimate act of selfishness and selfishness leads to death.

 

[CrossofChrist]

Is hell a physical place of fire, suffering,… or just an expression used in the Bible for eternal death, eternal “sleep”, eternal seperation from God?

It’s eternal separation from God; not that God isn’t “in” hell (because God is omnipresent), but because a soul in hell is eternally unable to “grasp” God or to love him. One in hell knows the Good and the Love that is there, but chose to reject it and therefore is in an eternal struggle.

Whether or not it is a physical place I find a moot point. The damned souls (if there will be any) will receive their bodies back, but if their souls are forever without God then their body will experience suffering as well. I imagine it as a person in total despair who, although there is nothing per se wrong with their body, goes on to hurt themselves and destroy their body because they just don’t care anymore. Those who choose to reject God will end up rejecting themselves.

 

[clem456]

Going with the idea that some of the saints have put forth, that we can experience a foretaste of hell here…
I have a couple of handy experiences of hell that are peculiar to my life, and since I don’t know any of you personally anyway and won’t see you at Mass on Sunday, I will go ahead and share the craziness with you. Take it with a grain of salt.

Hell is a half-awake dream of the most beautiful, desirous, and available women, all of whom want to possess you in every way…
at 3am in the morning, when you would prefer to get some sleep, but you won’t be sleeping, because these guests do not leave once you invite them. It’s amazing how desperate for sleep a person can become when they are choosing hell.

I started awake one night after one of these tortures and realized there was a “thing” at the side of my bed. I did not see it, but it was more real than eyesight. I felt it, and basically “saw” it internally. It had colorless, dirty, feathered wings that moved slowly but did not stir the air. I’d describe it’s color as grey but it was not grey, it had no color or life. The cold ashes in a fireplace is what comes to mind. It’s presence was overwhelming and filled the room and me. My wife was sleeping next to me but that didn’t matter, the only two people in the world were me and my new buddy. I was utterly alone and isolated with this thing… brooding and menacing without physically threatening me. It was just basically what I would call greedily waiting.
Like most of the rest of you, I am fairly skeptical about these kinds of things, but if nothing else was real, the fear was very real. That was the end result for me, abject sleep-with-the-lights-on fear, not fear that I would be injured, but just terror because I think my former buddy enjoys terror.

Do I believe hell is real? Yep. :sad_yes:
And that realization has turned into a blessing for me.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

The fire of Hell is as real as Jesus is in the Eucharist.

The fire hurts and torments.

God is merciful.

When someone ends up going to Hell it is because if they were given the choice to accept Jesus who is PERFECT love and died for all our sins throughout all history and bore those sins IN His body on the tree–they still REJECT that love and don’t ask for forgiveness!

They CHOOSE Hell and God (who is Perfect love–and as the scripture states–“Love does not demand its own way”) LETS them go to Hell! He honora their FREE choice to go to hell even after offering them the perfect love of Jesus!

Nobody gets ripped off or gets a bad deal and winds up in Hell. Everyone is given a FAIR chance. Everyone is given SUFFICIENT grace NOT to go there!

There is a question that is hard for us to answer but is this–why would God create the universe in such a fashion that a soul would use freedom of choice and choose AGAINST God?

We can only guess that the glory that God is given in setting up everything the way it is just and perfect and that the souls in Hell bring glory to God by the free choice that they have made.

Ask a soul in Hell if they would repent and suprisingly the answer would be NO!!!

God is MERCIFUL when it comes to Hell because the people in hell sin INFINITELY everytime they sin because God is infinite and they sin infinitely against Him everytime they sin.

Justice would say that the souls in Hell deserve infinite torment in hell forever. God is Merciful in the fact that the souls in Hell are punished FINITELY forever and not INFINITELY forever!

SO Hell shows the love of God and the Mercy of God!

What is the bottom line of all of this: we should always say “Lord have mercy on me a sinner” and always praise God for Jesus’ sacrifice for us on the Cross and love Him–take the sacraments–exercise the beatitudes and BE God’s love in the world to help souls to get to heaven.

If we do all that we’ll live with God in Heaven forever.

That will be JUST and MERCIFUL and God is perfectly BOTH and perfectly judges and LOVES us all!

 

[mikekle]

Going with the idea that some of the saints have put forth, that we can experience a foretaste of hell here…
I have a couple of handy experiences of hell that are peculiar to my life, and since I don’t know any of you personally anyway and won’t see you at Mass on Sunday, I will go ahead and share the craziness with you. Take it with a grain of salt.

Hell is a half-awake dream of the most beautiful, desirous, and available women, all of whom want to possess you in every way…
at 3am in the morning, when you would prefer to get some sleep, but you won’t be sleeping, because these guests do not leave once you invite them. It’s amazing how desperate for sleep a person can become when they are choosing hell.

I started awake one night after one of these tortures and realized there was a “thing” at the side of my bed. I did not see it, but it was more real than eyesight. I felt it, and basically “saw” it internally. It had colorless, dirty, feathered wings that moved slowly but did not stir the air. I’d describe it’s color as grey but it was not grey, it had no color or life. The cold ashes in a fireplace is what comes to mind. It’s presence was overwhelming and filled the room and me. My wife was sleeping next to me but that didn’t matter, the only two people in the world were me and my new buddy. I was utterly alone and isolated with this thing… brooding and menacing without physically threatening me. It was just basically what I would call greedily waiting.
Like most of the rest of you, I am fairly skeptical about these kinds of things, but if nothing else was real, the fear was very real. That was the end result for me, abject sleep-with-the-lights-on fear, not fear that I would be injured, but just terror because I think my former buddy enjoys terror.

Do I believe hell is real? Yep. :sad_yes:
And that realization has turned into a blessing for me.

So, what in your opinion was this thing with dirty feathered wings? Im assuming you think it is a demon…right? Many will say on here Demons have no form at all, but that aside, Hell was created specifically for Satan and his fallen angels, it is their pit to be punished in…so if we agree on this, then how can satan or any demon come and go from this Hell? God already said in the bible nothing is able to cross that ‘void’, that is human souls, or demonic, it is their place of punishment, does not sound like much of a punishment if they can come and go willingly.

If Hell is an actual place of torture and suffering for fallen angels and mens souls alike, then the demons or even satan himself wont be inflicting any of this torture, as they will be suffering as much as anyone else in Hell, I think people forget Hell was created for them SPECIFICALLY, Hell is not their cushy home, where they can come and go as they please, or a place where they can take out all their rage on humans…THEY will be punished there as well, if not more than any human soul, as what they did is MUCH worse than any human could do against God.

 

[clem456]

So, what in your opinion was this thing with dirty feathered wings? Im assuming you think it is a demon…right? Many will say on here Demons have no form at all, but that aside, Hell was created specifically for Satan and his fallen angels, it is their pit to be punished in…so if we agree on this, then how can satan or any demon come and go from this Hell? God already said in the bible nothing is able to cross that ‘void’, that is human souls, or demonic, it is their place of punishment, does not sound like much of a punishment if they can come and go willingly.

If Hell is an actual place of torture and suffering for fallen angels and mens souls alike, then the demons or even satan himself wont be inflicting any of this torture, as they will be suffering as much as anyone else in Hell, I think people forget Hell was created for them SPECIFICALLY, Hell is not their cushy home, where they can come and go as they please, or a place where they can take out all their rage on humans…THEY will be punished there as well, if not more than any human soul, as what they did is MUCH worse than any human could do against God.

I prefer not to speculate on the what or the who, or whether things are “real” or not. It’s not for me to say. In fact it is poisonous to dwell too long on these experiences. It is what it is, I prefer to dwell in the goodness of God and all his blessings.

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host,
by the Divine Power of God,
cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.

 

[fred_conty]

Mikekly,
When a person breaths their last breath and dies, noone knows just when the soul leaves the body. Apparent death may not be actual death, the exact moment the soul leaves the body. So there may be time, a few moments or even minutes, when many of the organs of the body are still alive even tho the heart has stopped, in which the soul has not left the body.

This is one of the reasons the priest should be called, and that he can administer the holy oil of the sick even after apparent death, that is a few minutes after the person is declared dead. This sacrament has the power to forgive his sins the same as the sacrament of Confession if they made an act of sorrow for sin before they died. So it is possible that a person could be saved in these last moments even after apparent death. And in addition, who knows what is going on between them and God in these last moments.

The other point is that there was a woman who was a mystic by the name of Maria Simma who was in contact with the holy souls in purgatory. She learned some things from the holy souls and one of them was this.

“God does not manipulate our will. The souls have told me that every person has the same opportunity at death to say “yes” in the last moment. Whether it is a long slow illness that takes them or a bullet thru the brain, they still all get the same two or three minutes to say “yes” to God. And ONLY if they hold on to their “no” all the way thru are they they then lost and must suffer hell eternally.”

Well, you can take this or leave it, and I wouldn’t bet my eternity on it. But to me it sounds true.

May God bless and keep you. May God’s face shine on you. May God be kind to you and give you peace.