Is hell crowded or empty?

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cemiller said:
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church Second Edition: (my thoughts in parentheses)
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Looking at these passages from the Catechism, I would say the Church has said that there will be some that go to Hell.
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That’s not how it need be read. The quotes are very ambiguous concerning the idea that there are definitely, indubitably, and absolutely certainly, those who will be damned forever.
 
cemiller said:
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church Second Edition: (my thoughts in parentheses)

1035 "The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fires.” (Hell exists and anyone with mortal sin after death go there)

1036 “Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few.” (This is referring to Mt 7:13-14, if the way is easy and wide it is because many have chose to take this path, which leads to Hell)

1038 The resurrection of all the dead, “of both the just and the unjust,” will precede the Last Judgment. This will be “the hour when all who are in the tombs will hear [the Son of man’s] voice and come forth. those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.” Then Christ will come “in his glory, and all the angels with him…Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left…And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.” (Obviously there are people who are “goats” that “will go away into eternal punishment”)
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Looking at these passages from the Catechism, I would say the Church has said that there will be some that go to Hell. On top of that, if you use logic, if God knew all men would be saved in the end, he wouldn't have bothered making a place for those that wouldn't...
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He didn’t make a place. Hell is where Satan and the fallen angels “are”. It is a willful separation from God.

They don’t get a final chance, because they saw God in all His glory, and rejected Him. No human being has had that chance, on this side. Can’t imagine God dealing with lesser creatures (us) more severely than He dealt with superior beings (angels).

They saw and rejected; I think we get the same chance. 🙂

Again: I don’t live as if I am 100% certain of that. 😉
 
cemiller said:
…This is referring to Mt 7:13-14, if the way is easy and wide it is because many have chose to take this path, which leads to Hell… Obviously there are people who are “goats” that “will go away into eternal punishment”
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You seem to be interpreting these Scripture passages as “predictive,” whereas Fr. Hans Urs von Balthasar (and presumably St. Teresa Benedicta of the Cross) interprets these Scripture passages at “admontive” (i.e. a warning, not a prediction). The Church has not declared the latter to be erroneous.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
He didn’t make a place. Hell is where Satan and the fallen angels “are”. It is a willful separation from God.

They don’t get a final chance, because they saw God in all His glory, and rejected Him. No human being has had that chance, on this side. Can’t imagine God dealing with lesser creatures (us) more severely than He dealt with superior beings (angels).

They saw and rejected; I think we get the same chance. 🙂

Again: I don’t live as if I am 100% certain of that. 😉
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The time for seeing is now, in this life.
Mark.8:18 Having eyes do you not see, and having ears do you not hear?
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SedesDomi said:
I’m reading what Father Barron in the original post wrote: “But is there anyone in this state of being? We don’t know for sure. We are in fact permitted to hope and to pray that all people will finally surrender to the alluring beauty of God’s grace.”
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Didn’t von Balthasar, one of John Paul II’s favorite theologians, in a book (Dare We Hope), seem to say the same thing - we can hope that every human being will be saved
 
Robertanthony said:
Whether or not there are people in Hell is a no-brainer: 1- "Many will say on that day:“Lord…” 2- “Where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” is a passage that refers to human beings 3- “And the smoke of their torment will rise forever”

1- Some people WILL be cast into Hell 2- It won’t be pleasant 3- No hope of ever escaping, as in “Give up all hope all ye who enter”.

No controversy.
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EXACTLY! Universalism is the next logical step for the ‘inclusive’ heresy. Our Lady said at Fatima, “…many souls go to hell…” and She specifically mention the ‘sins of the flesh’ as a major reason. Who are we to contradict Her. Jesus said of Judas, “it would have been better for him if he had never been born” - I cannot intepret that as meaning a good end for him.
 
itsjustdave1988 said:
St. Terese Benedicta of the Cross
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taught similarly, teaching that one can indeed maintain the hope that God’s grace does indeed find ways of outwitting all human resistance. Likewise, Catholic theologian Fr. Hans Urs von Balthasar proposed the same theological opinion in his book *Dare We Hope “That all Men be Saved”?. *The late Cardinal Avery Dulles, while disagreeing with Fr. von Balthasar’s interpretation, states that his interpretation is not contrary to Catholic doctrine, and as such can be freely held. See the First Things article on this subject linked to below.

The Population of Hell
First Things, May 2003
by Cardinal Avery Dulles

I didn’t see your earlier posting when I did my brief comment about von Balthasar … it was very informative … Edith Stein (Terese Benedicta of the Cross) was an interesting figure … an important phenomenologist in her own right and assistant to Edmund Husserl … who personally knew Heidegger … and moved in the same intellectual circle as Scheler, Jaspers et al … until she converted to Catholicism and became a Carmelite nun … and eventually a martyr at the hands of Nazis …

Also, thanks for the mention of the Avery Dulles article … I look forward to reading it …
 
This is a really interesting discussion. I have never read the quote from Edith Stein before, nor that Hans von Balthasar had grounds for hoping God would keep souls from perishing there for eternity. But it just doesn’t seem very likely. For one thing, hell isn’t empty. The devil and his demons occupy it. Secondly, many private revelations from even Doctors of the Church show that there are human souls perishing there. St. Teresa of Avila was shown the place in hell she had earned by her sins and she spoke of it and the people suffering there. St. Faustina was also taken to hell and saw many souls in everlasting torment, particularly, “those who did not believe in hell.” As another poster mentioned, the children at Fatima saw a vision of hell and the numerous amounts of souls falling into the abyss. Scripture, which has already by cited by other posters- and particularly the book of Revelation- also speak of souls definitively judged and given the place where they shall be for all eternity.

St. Catherine of Genoa, I believe, once asked God why in His mercy, He did not at least let some of these souls go into Purgatory for a loooong time. She was allowed to bring one soul out of hell and bring him into heaven. He was in such torment at being in proximity to God that he literally begged to go back to hell.

People in hell have chosen to be there because they cannot bear to be by the absolute Holy God. I have even heard that is why God created hell, out of mercy for them. They may be tormented there, but nowhere near as tormented as they would be in God’s Presence. Has anyone else heard that, too?
 
wild_thing said:
St. Catherine of Genoa, I believe, once asked God why in His mercy, He did not at least let some of these souls go into Purgatory for a loooong time. She was allowed to bring one soul out of hell and bring him into heaven. He was in such torment at being in proximity to God that he literally begged to go back to hell.

People in hell have chosen to be there because they cannot bear to be by the absolute Holy God. I have even heard that is why God created hell, out of mercy for them. They may be tormented there, but nowhere near as tormented as they would be in God’s Presence. Has anyone else heard that, too?
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Very interesting discussion, in another thread I was accused of being a heretic for voicing my opinion that probably no one goes to hell! nice to see a refreshing views from like minded posters that is substantiated.

The above quote is an interesting angle, however I believe that when we do see the God in all his glory and intense love for us, yes we will feel sorry and ashamed of our sins (purgatory) however I am hopeful that we will accept God’s love and forgiveness. As we live our lives on this earth perhaps if we practice repentance and accept His forgiveness this choice will be easier at the hour of judgement. JMHO.
 
Luigi_Daniele said:
He didn’t make a place. Hell is where Satan and the fallen angels “are”. It is a willful separation from God.
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Precisely!
They don’t get a final chance, because they saw God in all His glory, and rejected Him.
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It seems inconceivable a person could see God in** all** His glory and reject Him. Surely they would realise that existence deprived of Love would be hell! 🙂
 
I tend to think hell is rather empty considering the great mercy of our lord. Their is certainly no shortage of people worthy of eternal flames in the world today.
 
WTSherman said:
I tend to think hell is rather empty considering the great mercy of our lord. Their is certainly no shortage of people worthy of eternal flames in the world today.
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“rather” implies “fairly” or “not quite”! 🙂
 
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