Is Hell Dead? (Times Article)

[catholictiger]

time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2065080,00.html

Bell, a tall, 40-year-old son of a Michigan federal judge, begs to differ. He suggests that the redemptive work of Jesus may be universal — meaning that, as his book’s subtitle puts it, “every person who ever lived” could have a place in heaven, whatever that turns out to be. Such a simple premise, but with Easter at hand, this slim, lively book has ignited a new holy war in Christian circles and beyond. When word of Love Wins reached the Internet, one conservative Evangelical pastor, John Piper, tweeted, “Farewell Rob Bell,” unilaterally attempting to evict Bell from the Evangelical community. R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, says Bell’s book is “theologically disastrous. Any of us should be concerned when a matter of theological importance is played with in a subversive way.” In North Carolina, a young pastor was fired by his church for endorsing the book.

When Jesus spoke of the “kingdom of heaven,” he was most likely referring not to a place apart from earth, one of clouds and harps and an eternity with your grandmother, but to what he elsewhere called the “kingdom of God,” a world redeemed and renewed in ways beyond human imagination. To 1st century ears in ancient Judea, Jesus’ talk of the kingdom was centered on the imminent arrival of a new order marked by the defeat of evil, the restoration of Israel and a general resurrection of the dead — all, in the words of the prayer he taught his disciples, “on earth.”

Please Read before posting I am not really asking this question I am qouteing the title of an article. I know hell is real I know the church teaches that people are there, it is kinda like a door that only opens from the outside once you are in and they close the door you are stuck there for all eternity. I want to see your thought on this article and more specifically Rob Bell.

Please read the article before posting at least part of it.

 

[Inquiringperson]

I think Rob Bell is just trying to get more people coming to his church. If he’s light and easygoing, more people comes, which gives him more money. But I find this article offensive because it says the bible contradicts itself. I’ll be expecting a lot of outrage in the inbox section of Time.

 

[catholictiger]

there was also something on page 3 and 4 that first of all confused me and they didn’t say who made the claim I’m guessing Bell did, but it kinda explained his view or something. I laughed multiple times at the claims they were making.

 

[h2oplyer7]

This is hardly a new or revolutionary thought. He sounds a bit like Origen to me.

Using a bit of common sense now, I find it interesting that people claim that Catholicism uses its teachings on hell and the other Sacraments to gain power over the masses. (How has that worked out for us the most of our history). The Church still seems pretty powerless to me.

Or Protestants claim that Catholic views on grace are wrong and take away from the sacrifice of our Lord in our claim that we can lose our salvation. I have known many people who would never be a Catholic because they do not want to lose their assurance of salvation.

It seems to me that if the Catholic Church would just change their teachings we can bring the Protestants on board and control the minds of more people. Therefore, the Pope could get more money, our priests can keep living their extravagant lifestyles and the bishops would become even more popular. Wait, none of those things are true now. Ooops.

The Church persists. Seriously, it’s as if we have the worst public relations department ever. Yet, people keep joining the Church and we are still the largest Christian denomination today. I would say there has to be something supernatural about that. Yes…no?

Rob Bell is a good guy, he is just uneducated about Church history. Bible alone will do that to you.

 

[AmbroseSJ]

I think Rob Bell is just trying to get more people coming to his church. If he’s light and easygoing, more people comes, which gives him more money. But I find this article offensive because it says the bible contradicts itself. I’ll be expecting a lot of outrage in the inbox section of Time.

Evangelicals put so much emphasis on feelings while eschewing doctrines that they will naturally be inclined toward whatever increases the good feeling. This trail has already been blazed by the Unitarians however.

I thought the article was a glorification of Rob Bell, since the world will always prefer falsehood to Truth. The fuzzy evangelical position that accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior is all it takes to be eternally saved created the difficulty which Rob Bell has solved by negating hell.

 

[John_Carlton]

*When word of Love Wins reached the Internet, one conservative Evangelical pastor, John Piper, tweeted, “Farewell Rob Bell,” unilaterally attempting to evict Bell from the Evangelical community. R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, says Bell’s book is “theologically disastrous. Any of us should be concerned when a matter of theological importance is played with in a subversive way.” In North Carolina, a young pastor was fired by his church for endorsing the book. *

Hmm. I didn’t know the Protestants could excommunicate their own. I thought that required some sort of ecclesial government… Wacky… As for Rob Bell, I saw one of his “movies” at a strange little non-denominational shindig that I attended while helping a friend deconvert from atheism. There wasn’t a whole lot of Jesus in his message. It was just him being mad at organised religion. I have a question. Do these non-denominational quacks realise how ridiculous their logic is when viewed through a logical lens? They don’t want to label themselves, but they’d rather label and mock everyone else for having labels… They think organised religion is evil. Weird. The Bible mustbe evil too. The most organised Religion known to man published it. What do I think of Bell? I think he probably means well. But there’s more emotion than reason in his argument. In the end, the message that they want Christ to proclaim becomes more important to them than the Gospel. That’s where all the heresies came from. This one doesn’t seem to be any different.

 

[06convert]

It’s scary to simply not believe in hell. The devil believes in hell. Why not this guy?

If only it were so easy to just pretend like something isn’t there, because we don’t like it, or it’s inconvenient. If you can do that with something like hell, what’s next? Poverty? Homelessness? Hunger? Murder?

 

[catholictiger]

It’s scary to simply not believe in hell. The devil believes in hell. Why not this guy?

If only it were so easy to just pretend like something isn’t there, because we don’t like it, or it’s inconvenient. If you can do that with something like hell, what’s next? Poverty? Homelessness? Hunger? Murder?

speaking of the devil I would imagine one his most common plans for the souls he wants to have in hell for all eternity is to tell them hell isn’t real. By sayings its just some thing Chrisitans made up to scare you, or a loving God would never send his people to hell so it must not exist. Not saying Bell is going to hell we don’t have the authority to do that or the knowledge but he needs to be careful, becuase himself and all of the people God intrusted to him. His congregation could be in danger of spending eternity in the place he says noone is.

 

[ChadS]

Hmm. I didn’t know the Protestants could excommunicate their own.

Obviously they can’t but I’ve read horror stories of how people and families have been turned on by former pastors and friends for admitting sins or some type of wrong doing and it’s come back to haunt them. But, they’ll use their authority to expel somebody from the congregation or use peer pressure and isolation to make it quite clear that the person is not welcome any longer.

And, this has happened to people looking towards their pastor thinking that a conversation would remain private – but in days or hours it became clear it wasn’t.

ChadS

 

[alongexpected]

time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2065080,00.html

Please Read before posting I am not really asking this question I am qouteing the title of an article. I know hell is real I know the church teaches that people are there, it is kinda like a door that only opens from the outside once you are in and they close the door you are stuck there for all eternity. I want to see your thought on this article and more specifically Rob Bell.

Please read the article before posting at least part of it.

How do you know Hell is real?

 

[WFS5801]

Please read the article before posting at least part of it.

I read it. From my point of view it looks more like a puff piece for Bell than anything else. It’s not exactly like anything here is new. Pope St. Pius X spoke out against Immanentism when he wrote about Modernism.

Here’s how the linked article puts it:

Things many Christian believers take for granted are more complicated than they seem. It was only when Jesus failed to return soon after the Passion and Resurrection appearances that the early church was compelled to make sense of its recollections of his teachings. Like the Bible — a document that often contradicts itself and from which one can construct sharply different arguments — theology is the product of human hands and hearts. What many believers in the 21st century accept as immutable doctrine was first formulated in the fog and confusion of the 1st century, a time when the followers of Jesus were baffled and overwhelmed by their experience of losing their Lord; many had expected their Messiah to be a Davidic military leader, not an atoning human sacrifice.

The writer totally dismisses Revelation here.

Here’s what Pope St. Pius X wrote about Modernists and their belief in Immanentism.

Vital Immanence

1. However, this Agnosticism is only the negative part of the system of the Modernist: the positive side of it consists in what they call vital immanence. This is how they advance from one to the other. Religion, whether natural or supernatural, must, like every other fact, admit of some explanation. But when Natural theology has been destroyed, the road to revelation closed through the rejection of the arguments of credibility, and all external revelation absolutely denied, it is clear that this explanation will be sought in vain outside man himself. It must, therefore, be looked for in man; and since religion is a form of life, the explanation must certainly be found in the life of man. Hence the principle of religious immanence is formulated. Moreover, the first actuation, so to say, of every vital phenomenon, and religion, as has been said, belongs to this category, is due to a certain necessity or impulsion; but it has its origin, speaking more particularly of life, in a movement of the heart, which movement is called a sentiment.
   …
   Hence, Venerable Brethren, springs that ridiculous proposition of the Modernists, that every religion, according to the different aspect under which it is viewed, must be considered as both natural and supernatural. Hence it is that they make consciousness and revelation synonymous. Hence the law, according to which religious consciousness is given as the universal rule, to be put on an equal footing with revelation, and to which all must submit, even the supreme authority of the Church, whether in its teaching capacity, or in that of legislator in the province of sacred liturgy or discipline.

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_x/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-x_enc_19070908_pascendi-dominici-gregis_en.html

What it comes down to, for Bell, is that he doesn’t want to believe in Hell, so “feels” it isn’t a valid doctrine (inconsistent with his beliefs on mercy) therefore he dismisses it. And all Revelation (the basis of Christian Faith) can be dismissed this way, with sentiment – “it doesn’t feel right.”

I answer that, if God is a just God, as well as a merciful one, where does Bell’s view leave justice? I know justice is tempered by mercy (otherwise no one would be saved), but justice still exists. But I don’t have to guess. Unlike Bell, I have the Church and the Faith handed down from Christ to guide me.

 

[catholictiger]

How do you know Hell is real?

the fact that Christ talked about it alot just saying

 

[06convert]

So if hell isn’t real, what the heck are we all trying to stay away from?

 

[josephback]

“For in the last days they will not tolerate sound doctrine, but because they have itching ears they will gather to themselves teachers, who will tell them what they long to hear” -the Bible

Rob Bell does sound a little like Origen. Origen’s universalism was condemned by the Sixth Eucemenical Council. Warn your friends away, but don’t be suprised by stuff like this. It’ll happen more and more. Pray for Rob Bell.