- Status
H
HabemusFrancis
Guest
In regards to an earlier poster… are you sure the Virgin Mary told John Bosco the “97%” number? thats the first mathematical formula of the damned vis a vis the save.
She probably said something to the effect of “few” or “not many”, sort of a “narrow is the way message.”
Personally, I believe the number of saved is a great deal more than 97%. I just say that, because I see people of our faith and other faiths actually doing God’s will on a consistent basis. Like… hard to say… an attitude of goodness and charity that is a good deal more than being a “basically good person”.
No one “deserves” heaven so to speak, but yet… I truly have seen a number of people answer God’s call… or so it seems.
Thats not to say I think a majority of people go or have gone to heaven. One does not get there by being passive or “going with the flow.”
And of course… John’s vision must be taken with a grain of salt. The only control we ultimately have is our own actions and faith in God.
It can be quite disheartening to think about the unsaved (such and who they might be) so I think it makes most sense to just love God and other people the best we can… and not worry about the “unknowable.”
She probably said something to the effect of “few” or “not many”, sort of a “narrow is the way message.”
Personally, I believe the number of saved is a great deal more than 97%. I just say that, because I see people of our faith and other faiths actually doing God’s will on a consistent basis. Like… hard to say… an attitude of goodness and charity that is a good deal more than being a “basically good person”.
No one “deserves” heaven so to speak, but yet… I truly have seen a number of people answer God’s call… or so it seems.
Thats not to say I think a majority of people go or have gone to heaven. One does not get there by being passive or “going with the flow.”
And of course… John’s vision must be taken with a grain of salt. The only control we ultimately have is our own actions and faith in God.
It can be quite disheartening to think about the unsaved (such and who they might be) so I think it makes most sense to just love God and other people the best we can… and not worry about the “unknowable.”
O
opusAquinas
Guest
Our Lord Jesus Christ said that many people choose the broad road that leads to destruction. Our Lord said it would have been better had Judas never been born. If you read the personal revelations of many saints they all claim that there are many people in hell. You won’t find a single saint that says there are few or no people in hell. Based on these facts I think it’s safe to say there are many people in hell. There are more people in hell than there are in heaven.I just wanted to do a quick survey, of how many people buy into the idea that “Hell is a possibility, but there are no souls in it right now?”
Although I have struggled to understand certain church teachings, I never have really doubted that Hell is real and souls in fact do go there and are there right now.
The notion of Hell being real but unpopulate seems somewhat silly to me. It would mean that there would be no great urgency/need to turn to God, and would somewaht cheapen Jesus’ great sufferings and sacrifice as well, if the chances of humans going to Hell was statistically nil.
Also, if indeed noone has been to Hell…that means likely no one ever would. However unworthily you live your life, you will likely not go to Hell because… well… there is always someone worse… and if they were not damned why you?
The idea that people are in Hell as we speak gives me no great joy, and I wish the opposite were true. I know it’s not church dogma to say that anyone is in Hell, but to think otherwise… welll… just seems like wishful thinking.
O
Oldkingdavid
Guest
Look at all those people flocking to hell like birds migrating north for the summer. It is those who can’t do but to steal, to plague the good, to lie, to cheat and all that the little big people do in all the undeserved glory of all that they are and will ever be. How hell was made a laughing stock but hell has returned and hell is way beyond the heavens in all and everything hell does. Hell is spirit. And that spirit lives!
B
Bballer32
Guest
I think you are right. I don’t think Our Lady or Our Lord would reveal numerical values about salvation and/or damnation. Our Lady was probably using vague terms such as “few” or “many” or she could have also used an analogy. For instance, at Fatima she said that souls would fall to hell like leaves falling from a tree.
O
Oldkingdavid
Guest
Tell me, those who would ignore the truth, how is this country doing? Is it doing it for you? Not only has your sourhern cross failed the economic realities of this country and the world, but in how many other realities that he has so overwhelmingly failed, as well. The leader who you have put your trust and faith in has failed you. Not only has he made an absolute mess of things, he has failed in his most singular purpose and that is to keep me down. He is a failure, a loser and a fool. When are you going to wise up and come to the truth, the real truth. Not just the bs truth?
Did he not fail? I am here. He is a failure. Change it around so it is right and it can work.
Did he not fail? I am here. He is a failure. Change it around so it is right and it can work.
P
pianistclare
Guest
I think opinion of this that or the other person, no matter how notable, with regards to the placement of souls is unwise, unfounded, and unsubstantiated.
H
HabemusFrancis
Guest
Hearsay at the very least. It is utterly possible that the Virgin Mary’s appearence (whether valid or not) was just in a dream they had.
There are typically few witnesses to such things so…
C
clem456
Guest
S
StephieNorthCo
Guest
Agreed.
D
Don_Ruggero
Guest
Could you please cite this from Don Bosco? I know his writings and I do not know this alleged quote. Theologically, it is very troubling, even if it is supposed to be a private revelation. Thank you.
Father has had a remarkable priesthood and is an interesting and engaging person. It is, however, not theologically accurate to speak of anyone as somehow having “left” hell in order to be “upon the earth” since we are speaking of non-corporeal realities. We speak of demons…that is, fallen angels…as a locus of temptation – not condemned souls.
Some of the literature of this genre that one can find is rather unfortunate for a variety of reasons.
V
Vico
Guest
Not me. Souls have been in hell, and the unjust remain there. Angels and mankind have rational souls.I just wanted to do a quick survey, of how many people buy into the idea that “Hell is a possibility, but there are no souls in it right now?”
Although I have struggled to understand certain church teachings, I never have really doubted that Hell is real and souls in fact do go there and are there right now
The notion of Hell being real but unpopulate seems somewhat silly to me. It would mean that there would be no great urgency/need to turn to God, and would somewaht cheapen Jesus’ great sufferings and sacrifice as well, if the chances of humans going to Hell was statistically nil.
Also, if indeed noone has been to Hell…that means likely no one ever would. However unworthily you live your life, you will likely not go to Hell because… well… there is always someone worse… and if they were not damned why you?
The idea that people are in Hell as we speak gives me no great joy, and I wish the opposite were true. I know it’s not church dogma to say that anyone is in Hell, but to think otherwise… welll… just seems like wishful thinking.
Catechism
393 It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. “There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death.”
Matt 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ 23 Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers.’
Catechism
637 In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heaven’s gates for the just who had gone before him.
1034 Jesus often speaks of “Gehenna” of “the unquenchable fire” reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.612 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"613 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"614
1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."615 The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.
C
clem456
Guest
We can (should) hope it is empty. Seems to me it’s part of our Christian call to have hope that all attain salvation.I just wanted to do a quick survey, of how many people buy into the idea that “Hell is a possibility, but there are no souls in it right now?”
Although I have struggled to understand certain church teachings, I never have really doubted that Hell is real and souls in fact do go there and are there right now
The notion of Hell being real but unpopulate seems somewhat silly to me. It would mean that there would be no great urgency/need to turn to God, and would somewaht cheapen Jesus’ great sufferings and sacrifice as well, if the chances of humans going to Hell was statistically nil.
Also, if indeed noone has been to Hell…that means likely no one ever would. However unworthily you live your life, you will likely not go to Hell because… well… there is always someone worse… and if they were not damned why you?
The idea that people are in Hell as we speak gives me no great joy, and I wish the opposite were true. I know it’s not church dogma to say that anyone is in Hell, but to think otherwise… welll… just seems like wishful thinking.
Is that realistic? Probably not. But the Church does not canonize the damned.
F
FabiusMaximus
Guest
I have once heard the idea that although hell is real and souls do go there, that souls do have the chance to escape hell by repenting. That is, hell is eternal, but Jesus’ sacrificial act reaches even into the depths of hell, where people will have the opportunity to repent and be released from its bondage and go to purgatory, and eventually, heaven. Is that even remotely possible according to Catholicism? It doesn’t seem so to me.
V
Vico
Guest
Only the just were released from hades when Jesus Christ descended there. The teaching of the Catholic Church is that once there is bodily death, no repentance is possible. It is called the dogma of the particular judgment. Present in the profession of faith of Michael Palaeologus (1274), in the Bull “Benedictus Deus” of Benedict XII (1336), implied in the Union Decree of Eugene IV (1439), and in the professions of faith of Gregory XIII (1572-1585) and Benedict XIV (1740-1758).
- Status