Is Hinduism the eldest of Islam and Christianity and budism?

[S_J_Thaikattil]

In that case, Protestantism is a different religion than Catholicism.

Catholicism and Protestanism would be different religions only if they had different Gods and different Scripture. As far as I know that is not the case. The different Christian denominations have slightly different interpretations of the same Scripture. Where was Protestantism before Martin Luther anyway? Some Protestants like to refer to Catholicism as a different religion, but that is only because they don’t know the history of Christianity and don’t bother to find out where they got their Bible from.

If every Jewish Rabbi started a different denomination based on their interpretation of the Tanakh (OT), there would be many Jewish denominations too.

In the case of a Hindu you would find it impossible to have all refer to the same God and same Scripture and same religious philosophy. Hence it is referred to as a confederation of religions.

 

[Matariel]

Catholicism and Protestanism would be different religions only if they had different Gods and different Scripture.

All Hinduism ultimately has the same god (Brahma, or is it Brahman, I can’t remember) so that’s no issue, and also the Church has several books that the Protestant sects threw out when they left. Also, some Protestant sects are Unitarian, Binitarian, or Arian as far as their belief about God.

As far as I know that is not the case. The different Christian denominations have slightly different interpretations of the same Scripture. Where was Protestantism before Martin Luther anyway?

Non-existent.

In the case of a Hindu you would find it impossible to have all refer to the same God and same Scripture and same religious philosophy. Hence it is referred to as a confederation of religions.

Like I said, ultimately all the devas are just emanations of Brahma so the god issue isn’t an issue. The Scriptures? The Vedas, The Baghvat Gita (sic.) and the others… and like I said before, the Church’s canon doesn’t line up with the Protestant sects’ canon. And religious philosophy would also be an issue amongst the Protestant sects and the Church too, thus making this criteria show them as separate religions.

 

[anon5216]

Naturally. But if He gives revelation to Man as He has done through Jesus Christ and the Holy Catholic Church, we can know Him.

Big “IF” here.

We have only human claims about the “revelation to Man via Jesus Christ and the Catholic Church” thing.

Church leaders have made these claims for a long time, but only “prove” them via their own “authority” and the writings they themselves produced - this includes the set of texts known collectively as the Bible.

The assertion is by no means an objective fact. It is faith, like any other religion.

 

[Detales]

Have to agree with Anon on this one. (Alliterative, eh?)

What I’m basing this on is the much ignored difference between substance and contents. Intellectual and emotional knowledge is contents of the mind, capable of manipulation. It is dependent, mutable, and necessarily incomplete. That puts *anyone’s *faith in the catagory of material rightfully submissable to thorough examination against universal principles.

Knowledge by Identity* is another matter, corresponding to the Soul in the way spoken of by St Theresa of Avila, the soul being the “host” of the intellect, and the emotions being lesser yet. Despite that useful heirachy of understanding, religionists often tend to confuse their self identification which is substantive, with intellectual material heavily colored by emotion, all of which is* contents*.

That contents is ephemeral, whatever claims may be made for it in terms of dogma, tradition, and teaching. Therefore, pious religious belief may in fact be prophylactic in action against substantive Self/Soul knowledge. “Gnothi Seauton.”

Bindar Doondat

* For a remarkable exploration of this idea, I recommend F. Merrell-Wolff's *The Philosophy of Consciousness Without an Object.* My personal opinion is that this is where St Aquinas went when he stopped writing, saying about his work something like "It is all as straw."

 

[cathopologist]

Hinduism is a confederation of religions. It has many different streams of beliefs, starting with pantheism. Polytheism is the more commonly known aspect of it. Yet, worship of one favorite deity, is also integral to Hinduism and it is practiced by the common Hindu. Guru Pooja, or worship of the guru as god, is also common practice. Complex Hindu philosophies is less well known to the common Hindu in India and is of interest only to a few. The cultural and social aspect of Hinduism, with its caste system should not be forgotten.

But in the West, it is Hindu philosophy that sparks greatest interest. The many New Age religions and philosophies that arose from Hinduism and Buddhism in the West is a different thing altogether and should not be mixed up with Hinduism or Buddhism in India.

The Vedas, the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita are all classical Hindu Scripture, written at different times in the history of Hinduism, and they contain different religious philosophies that reflects the changes in understanding of God and religion in Hinduism.

Greetings Bhai, are you a convert from Hinduism to Catholicism?

 

[pjk123]

^is a behan,​

Hinduism OTOH claims guru pooja really doesnot mean they accept Guru as God.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

Greetings Bhai, are you a convert from Hinduism to Catholicism?

Not me personally, but my ancestors were Hindus. My family tradition claims they were Nambudiri Brahmins. I am native of a village in a Taluk of Thrissur district in the state of Kerala, India, with the accepted tradition of Apostle Thomas having converted Nambudiris. For nineteen and a half centuries until my father moved out as the first one (I was seven years old at the time; I stayed behind to finish the year of schooling and joined the nuclear family when I was eight), that is where my family had always lived, within ten kilometers of where Apostle Thomas landed. Tradition has it that those Hindu Nambudiris who did not convert as a result of the miracle Apostle Thomas performed which led to the conversion of some Nambudiri Brahmins, fled the place cursing it. The Taluk was named “Cursed Forest” or Shabakkad (Malayalam: Shabbam = Curse, Kaad = forest - Shabbakkad) for that reason. The name evolved to Chavakkad. The unbroken living tradition is well known and accepted by all, including Hindus.

I wonder why I keep getting mistaken for a male. I don’t use any special male font while posting here. All the people who have known me personally can confirm I am female.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

–
Hinduism OTOH claims guru pooja really doesnot mean they accept Guru as God.

Hindus worship their gurus in much the same way as we worship Jesus Christ. There is a fundamental difference in the understanding of God between Hinduism and Christianity which accounts for that kind of guru worship. But that again is just one belief in Hinduism. As I mentioned Hinduism has many streams of beliefs and philosophies, hence is a confederation of religions. So those who worship only deities and do not seek out gurus would not agree with guru pooja.

I have known several people who worship the living (still?) Sai Baba as Bhagwan and do not worship any Hindu deity. All the famous Hindu gurus have been worshiped as gods and their devotees do not worship any Hindu deity.

 

[S_J_Thaikattil]

Since Christianity rests firmly on the foundation of Judaism, and Jewish Scripture is an integral part of Chrisitanity, one should not consider the birth of Christ as the absolute starting point of Christianity. Without Judaism, there is no Christianity. Christianity is the fulfillment of Jewish prophecy. So in a real sense the birth of Judaism is also the birth of the foundation of Christianity.

The first five chapters of Genesis deals with the mythology of creation and the history of the human race until Noah. Chapters five to eleven deals with the time from Noah to Abraham. There is a semi historical quality about this account, but is still somewhat mythological. The real history of Judaism starts with the time Abram was called specially by God to leave the land of his ancestors and settle in the land God had chosen for him.

Abraham is supposed to have lived around 2000 BC. So Judaism from the time of Abraham being chosen by God, is roughly four thousand years old.

Islam also refers to Jewish Scripture prophets and includes Jesus as a prophet. It claims that Ishmael, the first child born to Abraham from his Egyptian slave, Hagar, is the real chosen son and not the son born to his wife, Sarai, Isaac. Islam considers the Jewish and Christian Scripture “corrupted.” Mohammad’s take on Jewish prophets and Jesus is considered the accurate one, although Mohammad was born in far away Mecca in 570 AD and is said to have had his first revelation through Angel Gabriel, the same angel who appeared to Mother Mary, at the age of forty.

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are called Abrahamic faiths because they trace their origins to Abraham.

That does not answer the question whether Hinduism is older than Judaism because the exact time when Rig Veda (the oldest Scripture of Hinduism) first came into existence is not exactly known. All sorts of numbers have been suggested, starting with “thousands of years ago” (since thousands merely means more than one thousand, it really doesn’t mean a lot) but none of them can be verified with any certainty. Rig Veda is definitely very old because other Hindu Scriptures like the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Gita which are also ancient came much later than Rig Veda, including the other three Vedas which came after it.

 

[cathopologist]

Not me personally, but my ancestors were Hindus. My family tradition claims they were Nambudiri Brahmins. I am native of a village in a Taluk of Thrissur district in the state of Kerala, India, with the accepted tradition of Apostle Thomas having converted Nambudiris. For nineteen and a half centuries until my father moved out as the first one (I was seven years old at the time; I stayed behind to finish the year of schooling and joined the nuclear family when I was eight), that is where my family had always lived, within ten kilometers of where Apostle Thomas landed. Tradition has it that those Hindu Nambudiris who did not convert as a result of the miracle Apostle Thomas performed which led to the conversion of some Nambudiri Brahmins, fled the place cursing it. The Taluk was named “Cursed Forest” or Shabakkad (Malayalam: Shabbam = Curse, Kaad = forest - Shabbakkad) for that reason. The name evolved to Chavakkad. The unbroken living tradition is well known and accepted by all, including Hindus.

I wonder why I keep getting mistaken for a male. I don’t use any special male font while posting here. All the people who have known me personally can confirm I am female.

Oh, sorry bahen, i thought you were male because of your family name (i assume?). I am myself a Brahmin convert to Catholicism and i have been a Catholic for over 14 years now. Both my parents were from Uttar Pradesh and migrated to Singapore in the 60’s. As you can imagine, news of my conversion created shock waves within the tiny community of Hindustanis in Singapore and within my family. So do you belong to the Roman rite Church or the Eastern rite Church?

 

[pjk123]

@cathopologist:infact ,as non-hindi speakers and hence not into national mainstream in every possible ways ,Syrian Christians(Syro-Malabar Catholics too) are not understood properly in India.For most of them ,a Catholic/Christian means someone From Goa shown in poor taste as you see in bollywood movies .OTOH ,We(SMC) are not westernized unlike the Latin Christians and doesnot have any such inviting things-we are Indian in our Culture;We don’t carry Portugese Surnames.and No One is ready to accept there are Christians in India before it even reached Europe.Still.Sigh!

 

[Matariel]

The first five chapters of Genesis deals with the mythology of creation and the history of the human race until Noah. Chapters five to eleven deals with the time from Noah to Abraham. There is a semi-historical quality about this account, but is still somewhat mythological.

This is your opinion. How literal, mystical, or metaphorical these things are to be taken is variable. I personally would not view Noah as “semi-historical”. He was a real person, his name appears in the Roman Missal-- he’s a real saint in Heaven. Just my view.

 

[jblake]

Matariel;:

I agree with you completely, but I would not go so far as to say that Hinduism is “a confederation of religions”.

There is a core group of roughly twenty five points that constitute “Hinduism”. No two individual strands within Hinduism believe/accept the exact same set of points. It is not uncommon for two individual strands to have no points in common. Some datapoints are mutually exclusive.

I would say that there are many different groupings of beliefs within Hinduism, similar to how there are different belief groups in the many different sects of Protestant Christianity.

There are roughly ten data points that all denominations within Protestant, Orthodox, and Catholic Christianity adhere to. That is roughly ten data points more than one finds within the strands of Hinduism.

Nearly all major anthropologists, historians, theologians, and religious professors would say that Hinduism is considered one religion.

Whilst the teachers of Hinduism wouldn’t disagree with that, they will be the first to point out that there are a number of strands within Hinduism, and that the theology of those strands can be mutually exclusive.

jonathon

 

[Contarini]

Because Hindus believe in many gods. I aim here to demolish the myth of polytheism. I am of course aware that there is also the panthiest aspect…but I still need to find Aquinas’ thoughts on that.

In other words, you are out to “demolish” something you have barely begun to try to understand. This is rash and foolish. Slow down and study a bit, and don’t make grandiose claims for yourself.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

I fail to see how this sentence would be true, and I fail to see the comparison. Hinduism is universally considered one religion.

That’s not true. Most contemporary books on Hinduism recognize its diversity. Of course, those same scholars might well see Christianity as similarly diverse, but I can see where one might say that the three Abrahamic religions have about as much in common as various forms of Hinduism do.

Edwin

 

[marymol]

I never realy considerd hinduism.
Only Christian denominations and Islam.

It seems Hinduism is older then I thought, and I see no reason to remain ignorant of it.

Dose hindu religion have any fruits to show for itself, such as resurections…miracle healings…etc…etc?

The question of what is older seems to be a false focus /claim by a people who want to fearfully hold onto what seems more familiar !

 We already know what /who existed in the beginning  and  of the influence of  the myth and the lie that we as humans are  not valued and loved that much  by our Father and hence   have to turn to a  serpent and its  lies  - it  is as old as The Garden !

The falsehoods are pretty blatant and of mythical proportions - that life / human body itself is not that worthwhile , as there is the false promise of reincarnations where one gets to shed the body as a piece of snakeskin , that animals are better and more worthy of honor and protection !

The father of lies also seemd to have planned that the extent of the myths would be to such an extent that all truths on the supernatural would take on the aspect of mere myths - thus effecticely thwarting the close , personal trust in Good Father and His Revelation !

 The art of counterfeiting is pretty amazing and pervasive  too -  that we get a sense of what we are up against - not mere flesh and blood but powers and principalties !

Every good and perfect gift is from The Father and is the patrimony of every human being - regardless of what our misuse of the supreme gift of freedom has made one to be born into or exposed to !

thedivinemercy.org/news/story.php?NID=3573

may His Mercy be our focus in these times and may it open our hearts to grasp the truth - even if that means divisions where it need to be - for He did promise too of His sword that separates truth from falsehoods ; yet we have the invitation and responsibility too , to plead His mercy - on all !

 

[cathopologist]

@cathopologist:infact ,as non-hindi speakers and hence not into national mainstream in every possible ways ,Syrian Christians(Syro-Malabar Catholics too) are not understood properly in India.For most of them ,a Catholic/Christian means someone From Goa shown in poor taste as you see in bollywood movies .OTOH ,We(SMC) are not westernized unlike the Latin Christians and doesnot have any such inviting things-we are Indian in our Culture;We don’t carry Portugese Surnames.and No One is ready to accept there are Christians in India before it even reached Europe.Still.Sigh!

Oh i do know what you mean, brother. My surname is Upadhya and my baptised name is Lukas Godfrey. My given name is Rajesh. A true-blue Indian would know immediately that i’m Brahmin because of my surname but would get confused because i have my baptised name on my ID as well. And tell me about Bollywood, man! I think Christians in India should voice out more often whenever Bollywood tries to portray Indian Christians as if we are the by-products of Colonial rule. I still consider myself a Brahmin - but my Lord is Christ and no other.

 

[pjk123]

There is no need to change your name,surname to bring enemies from your own community.heck ,For us Syrian Christians Hindu Names are common ,be it Ranjeet or Prakash or Rajesh or Rakesh in New Generation(earlier it was jewish names-like mathai-matthew ,Varghese-george etc etc).what is in a name man! there are thousands of christians in south india and parts who converted into catholicism(Latin rite) who retains their name.just keep the baptism name with you.new age cults are the common who wants to enforce you to alien culture which you are not- which wants you to feel pretended.NEVER- Catholicism wants you to leave your Original Culture in every way sans if any ugly practices-for eg: cousin marriages in some south indian states,serving other religion as catholic etc.​

OT: Look at Islam -it from it’s first day is an arabization of various cultures-destroyed various civilization be it Afghan or Sindhu Civilization.catholicism atleast I am not aware of destroying your culture in past 2 centuries.only bad practices which needs to be eliminated.
Good Luck.

 

[jothelegend06]

Catholicism wants you to leave your Original Culture in every way sans if any ugly practices-for eg: cousin marriages**** in some south indian states,serving other religion as catholic etc.​

Good Luck.

Catholic Church in fact permits cousin marriages.It is surprisingly more leniant than South Indian Hindu Culture where marriage is permitted only between cross cousins.

By the Canon Law of 1983, with a dispensation Catholics can marry even first cousins(whether parallel or cross) and there’s no prohibition with more distant cousins.

catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0607qq.asp

Q: Is marrying a relative allowed by the Church?

 

[Prodigal_Child]

Hinduism is very old, and has evolved over time. It has its roots in the Indus Valley culture (Harappa). For example, the idea of maya, that life is illusion, dates all the way back.

Hinduism of course has fruits, the most obvious of which is the caste system – the entrenched class system in which the overwhelming majority of people cannot escape poverty, do not try to escape poverty, nor should anyone bother to try to help them, because it is their KARMA.