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za91
Guest
Correct, but telling a person they can’t have any sex or sexual thoughts does sound a bit tough.
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OurLadyPerpHelp
Guest
We’re not suppose to have sex outside of marriage. Is that too tough as well?
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za91
Guest
Well seeing as 95% of America can’t, it does appear so…
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Barbkw
Guest
Mind over matter
Practice makes perfect. Chastity is a great opportunity to become close to the Holy Spirit (who dwells within you) and to develop a very close understanding of Jesus’ holiness and the type of love He has for woman and men.
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PrayHarder
Guest
But all sins are not equal. The Church has two types of sins – mortal and venial.
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st_lucy
Guest
And so do you live by the what others do? Just because 95% of America thinks that they are bigger and smarter than God does that make it true? Try thinking for yourself instead of having the world think for you.
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OurLadyPerpHelp
Guest
The majority of people are going to Hell. If all you’re concerned about is group dynamics, the consequences are dire. We have free will: you can continue worshipping the golden calf or listen to God.
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white_sheep
Guest
Trying to determine which mortal sin is the worst is a fruitless endeavor. Why bother? Why does it matter?
I would rank the various sexual sins by their level of disorder if I were compelled to make such a list.
Fornication would be the least followed by adultery as they are properly ordered but illicit.
Homosexual acts would be next as they are more disordered.
Masturbation would be after that as it is more disordered as it does not even involve another person and is focused entirely inwards.
Bestiality I honestly don’t know where to place, but I think it would be the worst.
I would rank the various sexual sins by their level of disorder if I were compelled to make such a list.
Fornication would be the least followed by adultery as they are properly ordered but illicit.
Homosexual acts would be next as they are more disordered.
Masturbation would be after that as it is more disordered as it does not even involve another person and is focused entirely inwards.
Bestiality I honestly don’t know where to place, but I think it would be the worst.
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Newbie2
Guest
Original sin. Our race (humans) were fine until we decided to disobey. We put such burdens, as a whole, on ourselves.
Agreed, one’s orientation cannot be controlled; how one responds to such an orientation can.
The gate is narrow…
Would it be more kind to say it’s OK to do things that would condemn a person to eternal damnation?
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Anthony_V
Guest
Homosexuality is the same degree of sin as fornication with birth control. Both deny procreation, are out of wedlock, and are illicit. Depending on God’s judgment, fornication without birth control may be just as bad as with birth control (due to the fact that not using birth control in such situation wouldn’t necessarily entail the intention of procreation), therefore determining homosexuality and fornication to be equals in degree of sin.
One thing you must remember about homosexuality is that it is not disordered because it is the attraction of the same sex. It is the result that explains why God didn’t create only male species: lack of procreation. Saying it’s disordered due to the fact that it’s two of the same would be insisting that there is a natural law higher than God, seeing that God both invented procreation by desire of family, multitude, etc. and did not make Adam and Eve at the exact same time (rather Eve from Adam). Imagine that we were made hermaphrodites. It would be legitimately ordered in the fashion that we are all the same sex, need each other for reproduction (since two of the same genetic sex cells won’t develop), and would need commit to relationships with each other in wedlock that results in family.
One thing you must remember about homosexuality is that it is not disordered because it is the attraction of the same sex. It is the result that explains why God didn’t create only male species: lack of procreation. Saying it’s disordered due to the fact that it’s two of the same would be insisting that there is a natural law higher than God, seeing that God both invented procreation by desire of family, multitude, etc. and did not make Adam and Eve at the exact same time (rather Eve from Adam). Imagine that we were made hermaphrodites. It would be legitimately ordered in the fashion that we are all the same sex, need each other for reproduction (since two of the same genetic sex cells won’t develop), and would need commit to relationships with each other in wedlock that results in family.
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OurLadyPerpHelp
Guest
The Church teaches sodomy is a sin that cries to Heaven, thus gives it extra seriousness. What are you basing your opinion on?
What is a Modern Catholic?
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StTommyMore
Guest
It is an opportunity for heroic chastity.
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StTommyMore
Guest
Morality is not determined by popular vote.
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Anthony_V
Guest
I apologize for the discrepancy. I was not in any way, shape, or form inferring that sodomy is not sinful; Homosexuality IS “a sin that cries out to Heaven”, but only by it’s opposition to God’s intention of two different sexes, and thus denial of procreation. What I was trying to say, however, is that homosexuality is not innately evil on it’s own due to the fact that it would not necessarily object to God’s plan for marriage, procreation, etc. if it did not (for one reason or another) deny procreation.
In short, every evil is relative to God’s natural law and order. There are millions of possible ways God could have made us, and still be ordered, but he created the Human DNA, so it and its intent is the standard for ordered by his choice, not by the only way to be ordered.
If that still doesn’t make sense, sorry!; A 16 year old only knows so many words
P.S.
Modern Catholic = Catholic loyal to the Holy See, the Pope, and Vatican II Catholic. Just trying to express that I believe the Church is NOT in a state of apostasy, but rather still completely guided by the Holy Spirit. I suppose I should update that…
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Holly3278
Guest
Homosexuality, being a homosexual, is not a sin. However, committing homosexual acts is a sin. Homosexuals are called to chastity just as everyone else is. For the homosexual, that means being celibate.
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whm
Guest
One’s orientation can certainly be controlled. Otherwise two of the three formerly gay friends of mine wouldn’t be married to women right now. My third gay friend who is not married didn’t used to be gay, very much attracted to women. He became “gay” based on two factors, 1. he was an only child with a extremely dominate and high powered, atheistic mother and had a submissive father and 2. he indulged in porn and masturbation for an extended period of time. There could be some where they have very little control over their orientation, and may have never made any obvious choices to foster their orientation, but it certainly is not all gay people (for 3 out of 3 of my gay friends it was a controllable situation).
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puzzleannie
Guest
homosexuality by itself is not a sin at all if you are talking about the inclination. you asked about sin specifically so I responded with what is a sin. The homosexual act between males is sodomy, and that indeed is sinful.
there is no evidence either, way, and no evidence that God wills (vs allows) anyone to be born with or to aquire any disorder
so no we cannot agree to anything that has not been established through science or through church teaching
still waiting for OP to get to the point, what is your specific issue with regard to social justice, and why did you pose a morality question on this forum? If you have a social justice issue, please state it.
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OurLadyPerpHelp
Guest
No apologies necessary. I would love to be your age again and spend all my time learning and experiencing things for the first time. How lucky you are to be young at this time when so much information is so readily available to you. In my day we either got our knowledge from the newspaper, an encyclopedia, or whatever our teacher said. You can “fact check” and get various perspectives on any single issue.I apologize for the discrepancy. I was not in any way, shape, or form inferring that sodomy is not sinful; Homosexuality IS “a sin that cries out to Heaven”, but only by it’s opposition to God’s intention of two different sexes, and thus denial of procreation. What I was trying to say, however, is that homosexuality is not innately evil on it’s own due to the fact that it would not necessarily object to God’s plan for marriage, procreation, etc. if it did not (for one reason or another) deny procreation.
In short, every evil is relative to God’s natural law and order. There are millions of possible ways God could have made us, and still be ordered, but he created the Human DNA, so it and its intent is the standard for ordered by his choice, not by the only way to be ordered.
If that still doesn’t make sense, sorry!; A 16 year old only knows so many words
P.S.
Modern Catholic = Catholic loyal to the Holy See, the Pope, and Vatican II Catholic. Just trying to express that I believe the Church is NOT in a state of apostasy, but rather still completely guided by the Holy Spirit. I suppose I should update that…
I encourage you to keep an open mind and think for yourself. When someone makes a definitive statement that puzzles you, ask them where they got that information, upon what do they base their opinion?
For example, the Church does not teach that homosexuality is a sin that cries to Heaven. In the 1992 Catechesim, item # 1867 says that “the sin of the Sodomites” is included in the “sins that cry to Heaven” and refers to Genesis 18:20 for proof.
Sodomy, or what is described as the homosexual sex act, is thus a more serious sin based on Scripture. If anyone says they don’t like the Catholic Church because it hates gay, remind them of the story of Sodom and Gomorra in the Bible. It’s not the pope who doesn’t tolerate sodomy, it’s the Lord.
I don’t think the Church teaches that every evil is relative. What it does teach is that if you die with a mortal sin on your soul you will spend eternity in Hell. That’s the important thing to remember. In God’s infinite power they may be attached various times in Purgatory for venial sins just as the Church attaches various times to Indulgences. Jesus calls us to live a perfect life and told us not many people actually get into Heaven. Many saints have provided witness to this as did our Blessed Mother at Fatima.
As for the “Modern” adjective, yes it’s best to remove that. The word “modern” in the context of describing Catholics has connotations it doesn’t appear you share. Look into what Pope St. Pius X had to say about modernism.
May God bless your education.
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manualman
Guest
No, there’s not. In fact I’m fairly certain Jesus said that lies are the sins that the Father despises the most.
So why does sodomy get so much attention. Two reasons, I think. One valid, the other not so much.
- I’ve never heard of a Thief Pride parade or a liars support group. Most sins are recognized as such and simply don’t need public denunciation. But when people actively promote a sin as somehing GOOD, that simply has to be opposed vocally as a “spiritual work of mercy” (look 'em up).
- Catholics are as human as anybody else and one trait of fallen humans is that we all like to think ourselves “better” than THAT guy. This (IMO) is why so many catholic practice and rationalize contraception on the one hand and denounce homosexual sins loudly and vigorously on the other. BOTH are sins, but it’s a much nicer feeling inside to speak up about sins one is not personally inclined towards. Sadly, this is probably more often the motivation for vigorous denunciation of sin than reason #1 is, but there’s a severe shortage of sinless humans right now. What can you do?
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manualman
Guest
As a word to the wise, it’s advisable to avoid definitive statements based on a sample size of 3. I realize you are citing certain NARTH theories on the reasons for hmosexuality, but the hard truth is that we can’t tie this one up in a tidy box and explain it neatly. Nobody knows for sure.
I tend to think it is similar to alcoholism. There are certainly genetic predispositions to alcoholism, but behavior, environment and one’s past history play a role as well. In the end, it’s irrelevant to the morality issue. Nobody tells an alcoholic Native American that he was “born that way, so drink up. Celebrate who you are…” We can and DO make distinctions in our society between the dignity of the person and the rightness of his choices.
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