Is humility a prerequisite for grace?

[WesleyF]

For a long time I believed that God gives every person sufficient grace to be saved, and some people choose to accept this grace and so be saved whereas some do not. However, I’m not sure how that aligns with James 4:6 which says

“God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

This would imply that not everyone receives sufficient grace to obtain salvation, but only those who are humble.

What is the church’s stance on how God gives grace? Are there any preconditions to grace, such as humility, that a person must have?

 

[TimothyH]

I disagree that God gives every person sufficient grace to be saved.

Grace is an action of the holy Spirit. Those who persist in a state of deliberate and unrepentant sin are devoid of the action of the holy Spirit. The holy Spirit does not act in the lives of those who persist in unrepentant and deliberate sin.

Pride is disordered self love. Humility on the other hand, is knowing your correct place in the order of creation. Many people confuse himility with humiliation. Humiliation is the loss of dignity. One can be humbled but not humiliated. Humility is undestanding that you are not God and are not worthy to stand in God’s presence but on the other hand it is a realization that we are better than the rocks and trees and animials because God became man to save us and not the rocks and trees and animals. Man is not worthy to stand in God’s presence but man is infinitely more valuable to God than the rest of creation because only man is made by God in God’s own image.

The offer of grace is there, but James clearly says that God opposes those who have a disordered self love, self reliance, and trust in their own abilities to get to Heaven. That’s what it is really about. The Jews thought that they coujld get to Heaven through their own adherance to the law of Moses. Always remember that the Bible is a Jewish book.

In those who persistin in pride - disordered self love and desire to satisfy self - the offer of grace is there, but not the action of the holy spirit.

-Tim-

 

[WesleyF]

The offer of grace is there, but James clearly says that God opposes those who are proud. The action of the holy Spirit - grace - is not present in such people.

The thing that bothers me about this is that it makes man the initiator of his own salvation, because it is man who has to take the first step to humble himself and it is only then that God can give him grace. But I think the Catholic Church teaches that God is the initiator of our salvation.

 

[TimothyH]

The thing that bothers me about this is that it makes man the initiator of his own salvation, because it is man who has to take the first step to humble himself and it is only then that God can give him grace. But I think the Catholic Church teaches that God is the initiator of our salvation.

Yes.

CCC 1989: The first work of the grace of the Holy Spirit is conversion, effecting justification in accordance with Jesus’ proclamation at the beginning of the Gospel: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” Moved by grace, man turns toward God and away from sin, thus accepting forgiveness and righteousness from on high. "Justification is not only the remission of sins, but also the sanctification and renewal of the interior man.

We have to ask for it though. We have to say yes to God’s offer.

God offered me grace my whole life and I only accepted his offer when I was on all fours hyperventilating because my life was crashing around me.

Remember that there are two types of grace, actual and sancifying.

-Tim-

 

[Lancer]

**I disagree that God gives every person sufficient grace to be saved. **

Grace is an action of the holy Spirit. Those who persist in a state of deliberate and unrepentant sin are devoid of the action of the holy Spirit. The holy Spirit does not act in the lives of those who persist in unrepentant and deliberate sin.

Pride is disordered self love. Humility on the other hand, is knowing your correct place in the order of creation. Many people confuse himility with humiliation. Humiliation is the loss of dignity. One can be humbled but not humiliated. Humility is undestanding that you are not God and are not worthy to stand in God’s presence but on the other hand it is a realization that we are better than the rocks and trees and animials because God became man to save us and not the rocks and trees and animals. Man is not worthy to stand in God’s presence but man is infinitely more valuable to God than the rest of creation because only man is made by God in God’s own image.

The offer of grace is there, but James clearly says that God opposes those who have a disordered self love, self reliance, and trust in their own abilities to get to Heaven. That’s what it is really about. The Jews thought that they coujld get to Heaven through their own adherance to the law of Moses. Always remember that the Bible is a Jewish book.

In those who persist in in pride - disordered self love and desire to satisfy self - **the offer of grace is there, but not the action of the holy spirit. **

-Tim-

If you clearly mean what your statements…it is simply a heretical…and a very serious one…

836 "All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and** finally all mankind, called by God’s grace to salvation**."320

74 **God “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”:**29 that is, of Christ Jesus.30 Christ must be proclaimed to all nations and individuals, so that this revelation may reach to the ends of the earth:

God graciously arranged that the things he had once revealed for the salvation of all peoples should remain in their entirety, throughout the ages, and be transmitted to all generations.31​

851 Missionary motivation. It is from God’s love for all men that the Church in every age receives both the obligation and the vigor of her missionary dynamism, "for the love of Christ urges us on."343 Indeed,** God “desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth”;344 that is, God wills the salvation of everyone through the knowledge of the truth**. Salvation is found in the truth. Those who obey the prompting of the Spirit of truth are already on the way of salvation. But the Church, to whom this truth has been entrusted, must go out to meet their desire, so as to bring them the truth. Because she believes in God’s universal plan of salvation, the Church must be missionary.

I Timothy 2: 2-7
Knox Bible (KNOX)

2 This, first of all, I ask; that petition, prayer, entreaty and thanksgiving should be offered for all mankind, 2 especially for kings and others in high station, so that we can live a calm and tranquil life, as dutifully and decently as we may.[a] 3 Such prayer is our duty, it is what God, our Saviour, expects of us, 4 since it is his will that all men should be saved, and be led to recognize the truth; 5 there is only one God, and only one mediator between God and men, Jesus Christ, who is a man, like them, 6 and gave himself as a ransom for them all. At the appointed time, he bore his witness, 7 and of that witness I am the chosen herald, sent as an apostle (I make no false claims, I am only recalling the truth) to be a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.**
**

also…if the grace is there…then so is the Holy Spirit… grace is the life of God…and all grace is present only in/with the Holy Spirit.

684 Through his grace, the Holy Spirit is the first to awaken faith in us and to communicate to us the new life, which is to “know the Father and the one whom he has sent, Jesus Christ.” But the Spirit is the last of the persons of the Holy Trinity to be revealed. St. Gregory of Nazianzus, the Theologian, explains this progression in terms of the pedagogy of divine “condescension”:

The Old Testament proclaimed the Father clearly, but the Son more obscurely. The New Testament revealed the Son and gave us a glimpse of the divinity of the Spirit. Now the Spirit dwells among us and grants us a clearer vision of himself. It was not prudent, when the divinity of the Father had not yet been confessed, to proclaim the Son openly and, when the divinity of the Son was not yet admitted, to add the Holy Spirit as an extra burden, to speak somewhat daringly. . . . By advancing and progressing “from glory to glory,” the light of the Trinity will shine in ever more brilliant rays.
​

​

Lastly the Bible is not a Jewish Book:

134 All Sacred Scripture is but one book, and this one book is Christ, “because all divine Scripture speaks of Christ, and all divine Scripture is fulfilled in Christ” (Hugh of St. Victor, De arca Noe 2,8L 176,642: cf. ibid. 2,9L 176,642-643).

Pax Christi

 

[Auntie_A]

Yes, I believe grace is a prerequisite for grace. If I am not humble, and God’s grace comes my way, I may act as if I am the creator of that grace, not God.

St. Paul had to fall from his horse and be blinded before he could accept that grace but God must have been knocking at the door for a while.

My deepest growth in faith has always come after I’ve been humbled.

 

[drafdog]

We are surrounded, engulfed in the grace of God. He desires that all of us become Saints. The difference between a Saint on the mountain top and the greatest of sinners wallowing in the filth of his own depravity is the ability to be sensitive to and open to receiving the grace around us. Pride is one of the greatest obstacles to receiving grace. A person who decides he doesn’t need anyone’s help (the prideful) cannot access God’s grace.
A local priest revered for his holiness and gifts of healing always asked his visitors as they were leaving, “Please, pray for my conversion.”
Pray always for the ability to open your heart to receive His gifts of grace.

Reb Levi

 

[Auntie_A]

Correcting my last post: I believe humility is a prerequisite for grace.

 

[fred_conty]

Pride is seeing oneself as self sufficient. Prayer is impossible since help is not seen as needed.

Humility is seeing oneself as not self sufficient. Prayer is said to ask for help.

And so the Pharisee’s prayer of seeing how perfect he was did not see himself needing mercy.
But the Publican’s prayer upon seeing how miserable he was, needed mercy.

So when a person starts a project and dosen’t ask for God’s help, what is this saying to God?
What kind of person does this reveal?

We’ve all “been there and done that”.

Just a thought.

 

[By_His_Mercy]

For a long time I believed that God gives every person sufficient grace to be saved, and some people choose to accept this grace and so be saved whereas some do not. However, I’m not sure how that aligns with James 4:6 which says

“God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

This would imply that not everyone receives sufficient grace to obtain salvation, but only those who are humble.

What is the church’s stance on how God gives grace? Are there any preconditions to grace, such as humility, that a person must have?

The humility itself is a gift.

From the Second Council of Orange, 529 A.D.

CANON 6. If anyone says that God has mercy upon us when, apart from his grace, we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, but does not confess that it is by the infusion and inspiration of the Holy Spirit within us that we have the faith, the will, or the strength to do all these things as we ought; or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, “What have you that you did not receive?” (1 Cor. 4:7), and, “But by the grace of God I am what I am” (1 Cor. 15:10).

CANON 8. If anyone maintains that some are able to come to the grace of baptism by mercy but others through free will, which has manifestly been corrupted in all those who have been born after the transgression of the first man, it is proof that he has no place in the true faith. For he denies that the free will of all men has been weakened through the sin of the first man, or at least holds that it has been affected in such a way that they have still the ability to seek the mystery of eternal salvation by themselves without the revelation of God. The Lord himself shows how contradictory this is by declaring that no one is able to come to him “unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44), as he also says to Peter, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 16:17), and as the Apostle says, “No one can say ‘Jesus is Lord’ except by the Holy Spirit” (1 Cor. 12:3).

The depths of God’s grace!! Praise the Lord!

 

[mercytruth]

As I understand the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Every day we have a choice to either do our own will, or the will of our heavenly Father.
When we choose to do our own will we are living in pride, and not in humility.

Even Jesus himself, said, " I came down from heaven not to do my will, but the will of Him
who sent me."

Jesus has instructed us, "Come to me all you who labor and are heavily laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me for I am meek and lowly of heart and you will find rest unto your souls."

And as the writer of Hebrews says,** ‘therefore labor to enter into that rest’**

Our labor is to humble ourselves as Jesus humbled himself. Or as St.Paul says, 'to work out our salvation with fear and trembling’

Daily denying our own selves and our own will and submitting to the will of God is the labor that we are called to enter into. Everything else is the grace of God, for without Jesus we can do nothing.

God’s peace

micah

 

[thenobes]

The thing that bothers me about this is that it makes man the initiator of his own salvation, because it is man who has to take the first step to humble himself and it is only then that God can give him grace. But I think the Catholic Church teaches that God is the initiator of our salvation.

God opposes the proud, in order to bring them to a humble position. Then they can accept grace.

Or so it seems to me.

peace
steve

 

[WesleyF]

The humility itself is a gift.

From the Second Council of Orange, 529 A.D.

CANON 6. If anyone says that God has mercy upon us when, apart from his grace, we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, but does not confess that it is by the infusion and inspiration of the Holy Spirit within us that we have the faith, the will, or the strength to do all these things as we ought; or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, “What have you that you did not receive?” (1 Cor. 4:7), and, “But by the grace of God I am what I am” (1 Cor. 15:10).

Thanks!

 

[Clare2412]

The humility itself is a gift.

From the Second Council of Orange, 529 A.D.

CANON 6. If anyone says that God has mercy upon us when, apart from his grace, we believe, will, desire, strive, labor, pray, watch, study, seek, ask, or knock, but does not confess that it is by the infusion and inspiration of the Holy Spirit within us that we have the faith, the will, or the strength to do all these things as we ought; or if anyone makes the assistance of grace depend on the humility or obedience of man and does not agree that it is a gift of grace itself that we are obedient and humble, he contradicts the Apostle who says, “What have you that you did not receive?” (1 Cor. 4:7), and, “But by the grace of God I am what I am” (1 Cor. 15:10).

CANON 8. If anyone maintains that some are able to come to the grace of baptism by mercy but others through free will, which has manifestly been corrupted in all those who have been born after the transgression of the first man, it is proof that he has no place in the true faith. For he denies that the free will of all men has been weakened through the sin of the first man, or at least holds that it has been affected in such a way that they have still the ability to seek the mystery of eternal salvation by themselves without the revelation of God. The Lord himself shows how contradictory this is by declaring that no one is able to come to him “unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44), as he also says to Peter, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven” (Matt. 16:17), and as the Apostle says, “No one can say ‘Jesus is Lord’ except by the Holy Spirit” (1 Cor. 12:3).

The depths of God’s grace!! Praise the Lord!

Your quotes are very interesting. Could you tell us where to find this info? Do you have a book on the councils? Thanks for anything you can share!

Via con Dios!
Clare

 

[raikou]

CCC #1993 Justification establishes cooperation between God’s grace and man’s freedom. On man’s part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves (emphasis mine) his assent:

When God touches man’s heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God’s grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God’s sight.

Therefore, the reception of grace requires man’s cooperation, but God’s initiative precedes man’s assent of faith. God offers (or gives) that grace to a person, but that person in his free will can choose to reject it.

 

[WesleyF]

Therefore, the reception of grace requires man’s cooperation, but God’s initiative precedes man’s assent of faith. God offers (or gives) that grace to a person, but that person in his free will can choose to reject it.

Can the same thing be said about humility? If humility is a gift from God, then does the reception of humility require man’s co-operation too?

 

[guanophore]

For a long time I believed that God gives every person sufficient grace to be saved, and some people choose to accept this grace and so be saved whereas some do not. However, I’m not sure how that aligns with James 4:6 which says

“God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

This would imply that not everyone receives sufficient grace to obtain salvation, but only those who are humble.

What is the church’s stance on how God gives grace? Are there any preconditions to grace, such as humility, that a person must have?

You were right all along. God gives sufficient grace to all so they can be saved.

Humility best describes the response that people have who enter salvation. Those who have a humble response do get MORE grace.

The thing that bothers me about this is that it makes man the initiator of his own salvation, because it is man who has to take the first step to humble himself and it is only then that God can give him grace. But I think the Catholic Church teaches that God is the initiator of our salvation.

No, it does not. No human person is the initiator of their own salvation. We cannot ever turn to God without grace.

Acts 17:29-30

29 Since we are God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, an image formed by the art and imagination of mortals. 30 While God has overlooked the times of human ignorance, now he commands all people everywhere to repent

God has created us with a desire to seek Him, and He gives us sufficient grace to respond to His call that we should repent. Some respond with humility, others with pride.

Acts 17:22-28

22 Then Paul stood in front of the Areopagus and said, "Athenians, I see how extremely religious you are in every way. 23 For as I went through the city and looked carefully at the objects of your worship, I found among them an altar with the inscription, ‘To an unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you. 24 The God who made the world and everything in it, he who is Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by human hands, 25 nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mortals life and breath and all things. 26 From one ancestor he made all nations to inhabit the whole earth, and he allotted the times of their existence and the boundaries of the places where they would live, 27 **so that they would search for God and perhaps grope for him and find him — though indeed he is not far from each one of us. 28 For ‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your own poets have said,
‘For we too are his offspring.’ **

He created us in love, and fashioned our souls so that we could come to know Him even from within ourselves.

The Gk *pselaphao *( translated here “grope”) is also used to describe a person reaching out with their hands in a dark room to find by touching.

Even this “groping” for God is a work of His grace.

 

[raikou]

Can the same thing be said about humility? If humility is a gift from God, then does the reception of humility require man’s co-operation too?

Yes. Humility is also a grace. That is why we pray for humility in the Litany for Humility.

But as the Catechism says:

2002 God’s free initiative demands man’s free response, for God has created man in his image by conferring on him, along with freedom, the power to know him and love him. The soul only enters freely into the communion of love. God immediately touches and directly moves the heart of man. He has placed in man a longing for truth and goodness that only he can satisfy. The promises of “eternal life” respond, beyond all hope, to this desire:

Like any other gift, the grace of humility can be rejected (where one refuses to cooperate). For example, even if God allows a person to realize that he is but a creature of God, he may freely dwell on other reasons to become proud however unreasonable these reasons may be. But if a person humbly acknowledges his creaturely status and submits to God, it doesn’t mean that the person initiated the grace. It was also God who made that person humble. God initiated the grace, and by free response, that person accepted it. It’s a co-operation of grace and human free will where God initiates and man responds.

Another example is when one encounters a painful event. Sometimes, God allows these to make a person humble because it helps one to realize his frailty and dependence on God. It could push one to draw closer to God. On the other hand, another person could instead misconstrue that event as an undeserved suffering by dwelling on one’s illusory pride, thus pushing him to hate God. One’s response may depend on how one chooses to interpret the painful event, but all along, God’s grace has been helping him to become humble.

This is a good read: vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c3a2.htm

 

[mercytruth]

If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!” Luke 11:13.

It is assumed that when we ask our heavenly Father for His gift of the Holy Spirit and/or any graces, that we are humbly acknowleging our need for these gifts when we prayerfully ask our heavenly Father for them. Whether this is at the time of our initial conversion, or during our spiritual journey of desiring to be holy, as He is holy.

Does everyone choose to be converted? No. Does everyone who is converted choose to live a holy life? No. It would seem to me that the turning point for conversion and for living a holy life is humbling oneself before God in acknowleging one’s need for His Holy Spirit and the desire for His grace.

His peace be with you

micah