Is hunting a sin?

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It would be a good thing to hunt to extinction the Brown Tree Snake on Guam.

The same thing applies to boa constrictors and pythons in the Florida Everglades.
 
No, that has been exactly my point. That’s why I’ve stated that the animal should be used for another purpose…food, clothing, etc. To hunt for sport, as in go shoot some animals, but not bother to pull them out of the woods and use them is wrong. To hunt for sport, as in shoot an animal, but also utilize it, is not wrong.
Hunters don’t leave the animal so as not to waste it, so you see nothing wrong with the vast majority of sport hunting. Even though the food is almost never needed? Your logic in applying that paragraph from the catechism befuddles me. If the food is not needed, why is the animal not being killed needlessly?
 
Hunters don’t leave the animal so as not to waste it, so you see nothing wrong with the vast majority of sport hunting. Even though the food is almost never needed? Your logic in applying that paragraph from the catechism befuddles me. If the food is not needed, why is the animal not being killed needlessly?
In nature, animals kill other animals all the time.

Not always for food.

Although in nature, nothing goes to waste.
 
Hunters don’t leave the animal so as not to waste it, so you see nothing wrong with the vast majority of sport hunting. Even though the food is almost never needed? Your logic in applying that paragraph from the catechism befuddles me. If the food is not needed, why is the animal not being killed needlessly?
I think you might be getting too literal on what the Church means by need. Choosing to hunt your own meat vs. buying store bought meat is a valid choice. Was the cow who died to be in the grocery store less needed than the deer (or whatever) that was shot in the woods? I’d say in that case it is a different method of getting your meat.

My interpretation of needless is that it is wrong to shoot an animal and not find a use for it… not to contemplate whether that animal had to die because someone else had already killed an animal for the grocery store.
 
Yeah, you can look at it that way.

However, as you evolve spiritually, you wont see it that way.

Jim
Sorry for the late reply. You are the one that used an example of game ranches where animals are raised exclusively for hunting. So if the hunting did not occur, those particular animals would not exist. That is a matter of plain logic. So either the animals never exist or a percentage of them are killed by hunters. Those are the two options, what spiritual development will change that?

BTW, I don’t hunt. Used to, but now I don’t have the time or really that much interest or the opportunity. I don’t attribute this change in my lifestyle to any spiritual development.

Your smugness doesn’t help your argument, IMO. However, as you develope spiritually, you may learn how to have a civil argument.
 
Consider whether political correctness is a valid component of any discussion of the sinfulness [or not] of an act.

Hunting is politically incorrect.

But a sin? No, hunting is not a sin.

For some, wearing fur is immoral … a sin.

Well, wearing fur is politically incorrect.

But, not a sin.
 
tafan
Sorry for the late reply. You are the one that used an example of game ranches where animals are raised exclusively for hunting. So if the hunting did not occur, those particular animals would not exist.
But then the question is, is it moral to raise animals just so they can exist to be shot?

Also, the deer on these game farms are all baited. The hunter is placed on a stand where they animal has been conditioned to find his daily food.

I hunted deer in the wild, and in my state it’s illegal to bait deer. It’s a totally different way of hunting compared to hunting at a hunt club.
BTW, I don’t hunt. Used to, but now I don’t have the time or really that much interest or the opportunity. I don’t attribute this change in my lifestyle to any spiritual development.
I never met a person who was spiritual, who hunted.

There is a violence with hunting that such people refuse to take part in.

This was my case.

I hunted pheasants and trained English Springer Spaniels for hunting. Pheasants don’t live in New England naturally. They’re raised on farms and put out into the wild during the worst time of the season for them to survive, fall. I began to see how unnatural it was, especially when the dogs would often catch the pheasant alive and bring it to me. The birds were raised on farms around humans and dogs, so when they’re stocked in the wild, they often just sit, and the dog will pick them up.

Also, the process of training a gun dog involves using pigeons which we stocked ourselves and just shoot in order to train the dog for hunting pheasant. Stocking the pigeons involves holding the bird upside down and spinning it around in a circle. The bird becomes dizzy and you can through it into the brush, and it will remain there for a half hour. You then go back to the truck and get the dogs and your gun. The dogs flush the bird, you shoot it and the dog retrieves it, just as it would a pheasant. Except at the end of the day, you just throw the birds away for they’re no good to eat anyway.

Like I said, it involves violence against life, which I decided I didn’t care for any more and so I gave it up.

I believe in the necessity of hunting to control animal over population of deer and some other species, but this isn’t the issue at hunt clubs.
Your smugness doesn’t help your argument, IMO. However, as you develope spiritually, you may learn how to have a civil argument.
Smugness?

I think you’re over-reacting.

Like I said, I have never met a spiritually deep person who hunted.

Hunting is a worldly activity which involves violence. Spiritual people generally are turned off by it.

It that’s smugness? Then you have little understanding of the spiritual life.

Jim
 
Well you have been around quite a few hunters and have personally judged every one of their spiritual lives. I can think of my father, grandfather who attend(ed) mass daily, yet enjoyed hunting. Our former Bishop is a hunter. The priest in my home town while I was a kid was a great man, yet he hunted. I know of 2 or three other priests who hunt. I can think of several other men who are devout Catholics who hunt. I would never think to judge any of these men as unspiritual.

On the other hand, it seems that people who are spiritual, are kind and charitable. Who, after seeing evidence that they have given offense, however unjustified, would not double down. As you grow in your spirituality, you may learn these things about charity.

Good day sir.
 
Seems to me that we are mixing political incorrectness with evaluation of a moral dilemma.

Hunting is politically incorrect. [Killing Bambi]

But hunting is not a sin.
 
tafan
Well you have been around quite a few hunters and have personally judged every one of their spiritual lives. I can think of my father, grandfather who attend(ed) mass daily, yet enjoyed hunting. Our former Bishop is a hunter. The priest in my home town while I was a kid was a great man, yet he hunted. I know of 2 or three other priests who hunt. I can think of several other men who are devout Catholics who hunt. I would never think to judge any of these men as unspiritual.
I never judged those men you mention as not being spiritual,…I never met them.

And I’m talking about men who are deep spiritually who live contemplative lives, not Catholics in the general sense.

As I said, “I” have never met spiritually deep men who hunted. I didn’t say they don’t exist, but I’ve yet to meet one who hunted.

I think you’re over-reacting and didn’t understand what I meant by spiritually deep men.
On the other hand, it seems that people who are spiritual, are kind and charitable. Who, after seeing evidence that they have given offense, however unjustified, would not double down. As you grow in your spirituality, you may learn these things about charity.
:rolleyes:

Have a nice day.

Jim
 
tafan

I never judged those men you mention as not being spiritual,…I never met them.

And I’m talking about men who are deep spiritually who live contemplative lives, not Catholics in the general sense.

As I said, “I” have never met spiritually deep men who hunted. I didn’t say they don’t exist, but I’ve yet to meet one who hunted.

I think you’re over-reacting and didn’t understand what I meant by spiritually deep men.

:rolleyes:

If you come across a St Francis of Assisi or St John of the Cross type of spiritual person who hunted for sport, let me know.

Jim
 
BTW, if you come across a spiritual person on the level of St Francis of Assisi, or St John of the Cross who hunted for sport, let us know. 😃

Jim
 
BTW, if you come across a spiritual person on the level of St Francis of Assisi, or St John of the Cross who hunted for sport, let us know. 😃

Jim
You said "I never met a person who was spiritual, who hunted. ". I was not saying you had judged people you hadn’t met, but that you have judged every hunter you have met as being non spiritual. Now you are covering your tracks and saying not deeply spiritual and contemplative ( although even that I would never claim about someone) abdusingthe great saints.

If you have ever met someone who is comes across as spiritual as St Francis of Asissi and casts such judgements on do many other’s spirituality, let me know.
 
BTW, if you come across a spiritual person on the level of St Francis of Assisi, or St John of the Cross who hunted for sport, let us know. 😃

Jim
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Hubertus_(first_Bishop_of_Liège

Saint_Hubertus_(first_Bishop_of_Liège)

romanchristendom.blogspot.com/2007/09/patron-saints-of-hunting.html

St Eustace became known as a patron saint of hunters, and also of anyone facing adversity; he was traditionally included among the Fourteen Holy Helpers.

listverse.com/2007/10/12/top-10-unusual-patron-saints/
 
Monte, thanks for that. Although to be fair the current standard being out forth is St Francis, who many say is the saint in all the history of the church whose life mirrored Christ’s. So your examples may not be adequate.

Of course, the argument against hunting on this thread has reached a point that since no one has met a hunter as holy as St Francis, hunting must be bad. Never mind that the same argument could be used against every profession, every leisure activity , etc. Basically, we should do nothing in our lives ( maybe including being a priest) because none of us has met someone else doing it as holy as St Francis .
 
I would imagine that until the industrial age most catholics either raised their own meat animals and slaughtered them, or hunted for food, or both.

And that includes Saints. Do we know of any vegetarian saints?

Disclaimer!!! Now I’ve actually become about 90% vegetarian for my health recently (:eek:) - but I don’t think there’s anything morally wrong with hunting.
 
tafan
You said "I never met a person who was spiritual, who hunted. ". I was not saying you had judged people you hadn’t met, but that you have judged every hunter you have met as being non spiritual.
Well you don’t know me, so you don’t know the hunters I have met and know.

Trust me, they’re not spiritual in the least.
Now you are covering your tracks and saying not deeply spiritual and contemplative ( although even that I would never claim about someone) abdusingthe great saints.
A spiritual deep person is a person who has a relationship with Jesus Christ and seeks union with him through contemplative prayer and life-style. He seeks interior peace and silence, which hunting would not be conducive toward.

I understand this is an emotional issue for you, and just to be clear, I don’t have anything against people who hunt, and as I have said, it is needed for animal population control.

However, game hunting preserves which raise animals for nothing other than to be baited and shot, is unethical.
If you have ever met someone who is comes across as spiritual as St Francis of Asissi and casts such judgements on do many other’s spirituality, let me know.
Having an opinion about sport hunting not being what a spiritually deep person would have interest in, isn’t a judgement toward hunters, but a fact of life about people who live deep spiritual lives. The violence of killing an animal would not be conducive toward inner stillness and peace, which spiritually mature people have.

I’ll stand by my opinion on the subject.

Jim
 
I would imagine that until the industrial age most catholics either raised their own meat animals and slaughtered them, or hunted for food, or both.

And that includes Saints. Do we know of any vegetarian saints?

Disclaimer!!! Now I’ve actually become about 90% vegetarian for my health recently (:eek:) - but I don’t think there’s anything morally wrong with hunting.
And the difference with the discussion here is the defense of sport hunting.

Hunting preserves in various parts of the nation, where animals are farmed for the sake of being shot for sport, not for food or keeping the population in balance, is in my opinion, unethical.

Jim
 
tafan

Well you don’t know me, so you don’t know the hunters I have met and know.

Trust me, they’re not spiritual in the least.

A spiritual deep person is a person who has a relationship with Jesus Christ and seeks union with him through contemplative prayer and life-style. **He seeks interior peace and silence, which hunting would not be conducive toward. **

I understand this is an emotional issue for you, and just to be clear, I don’t have anything against people who hunt, and as I have said, it is needed for animal population control.

However, game hunting preserves which raise animals for nothing other than to be baited and shot, is unethical.

Having an opinion about sport hunting not being what a spiritually deep person would have interest in, isn’t a judgement toward hunters, but a fact of life about people who live deep spiritual lives. The violence of killing an animal would not be conducive toward inner stillness and peace, which spiritually mature people have.

I’ll stand by my opinion on the subject.

Jim
You are welcome to your opinion - however…

Obviously you’ve never hunted.

And killing an animal is not violence. It’s part of the natural order.

I am personally against game ranches though as being unnatural… except maybe in Africa where it gives people who would otherwise poach endangered species a chance to make a living, and so protect the truly wild animals.
 
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