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Gorgias
Guest
Make sense now?I agree that it would have an effect. Yet, it’s not “material support”Gorgias:
Material support for a political campaign counts.
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De_Maria
Guest
I’m a conservative, Republican and I support President Trump.
That said, the laws of this country allow for inquiries into the behaviour of a President and for impeachment if it is justified. It sounds as though you are denying or are opposed to these?
Or are you saying that these laws somehow oppose Catholic Teaching?
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bibcat
Guest
A strict reading of Romans 13 strongly implies they’re unbiblical. And anyone can interpret scripture. Even a milkmaid.
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De_Maria
Guest
Yes, it did.
The thing is, that his job was not to exonerate. It was simply to find evidence of Russian tampering. He actually went beyond his purview by spying on the president. But even after he finished all his extra investigating, he had to admit that he had nothing but hearsay and innuendo.
He is not a judge. He is an investigator. He has no authority to exonerate anyone. He was simply supposed to bring the evidence before the Congress. They would decide to prosecute or not to prosecute. Since no evidence was provided for prosecution, they had to accept the fact that there is no evidence of any tampering nor any evidence of so-called “collusion”.
Yeah, it does. Biden’s confession would be enough anywhere else. He claims that he was stopping a corrupt investigation. What he actually did was stop an investigation against corruption right at the moment when his son was going to be investigated.
I said a request would be made.
Lol! And you can’t see anything wrong with Biden profiting from everything he does in the of the US?
farronwolf
New member
So, you are taking the word of the fellow who was fired for corruption about corruption of someone else.
Please look at the facts. This is just a snip from an article with some actual facts in it. Biden was on the same side as the EU, the IMF who was withholding 40 billion in loan guarantees and other Ukrainians for the removal of Shokin.
“Ironically, Joe Biden asked Shokin to leave because the prosecutor failed [to pursue] the Burisma investigation, not because Shokin was tough and active with this case,” Kaleniuk said.
Ukrainian prosecutors have described no evidence indicating that Biden sought to help his son by getting Shokin dismissed – and have suggested that they have not discovered any such evidence.
But there is a long list of Western organizations, governments, and diplomats, as well as Ukrainian anti-corruption groups, that wanted to see Shokin fired.
They include the International Monetary Fund, the European Union, the U.S. government, foreign investors, and Ukrainian advocates of reform.
Please look at the facts. This is just a snip from an article with some actual facts in it. Biden was on the same side as the EU, the IMF who was withholding 40 billion in loan guarantees and other Ukrainians for the removal of Shokin.
“Ironically, Joe Biden asked Shokin to leave because the prosecutor failed [to pursue] the Burisma investigation, not because Shokin was tough and active with this case,” Kaleniuk said.
Ukrainian prosecutors have described no evidence indicating that Biden sought to help his son by getting Shokin dismissed – and have suggested that they have not discovered any such evidence.
But there is a long list of Western organizations, governments, and diplomats, as well as Ukrainian anti-corruption groups, that wanted to see Shokin fired.
They include the International Monetary Fund, the European Union, the U.S. government, foreign investors, and Ukrainian advocates of reform.
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De_Maria
Guest
Uh, you’re not Catholic, are you?
The Catholic Church is the true interpreter of the Scriptures. She decides whether a “strict” reading is necessary and who makes the reading.
Yeah, that’s why Protestants are in the straits they’re in today. Everyone of them is that milkmaid and when they disagree with their Church, they take their bible home and start another denomination.
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Dovekin
Guest
No. She is responding to your use of the term. Contributions can be “in kind”, not jut financial or “material.” And it is illegal to solicit them from a foreign government, not just to receive or use them.
So no, it does not make sense. I even suspect the two of you mean different things by material.
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De_Maria
Guest
From all accounts, Biden is making millions from his representing the US in China.
From all accounts, Biden’s son was placed in a lucrative position in the Ukraine, after his dad was sent there to broker a deal.
Then, we have Biden’s admission that he withheld America’s billions of dollars in order to force the Ukraine to fire that man.
And then, his claims that this man was corrupt are contradicted by ALL in the Ukraine. Not simply the man fired. The evidence points to the man being fired because he was about to investigate Hunter.
That’s a smoking gun. It needs to be investigated properly.
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Victoria33
Guest
Have you ever voted for a pro-abortion candidate I’m just saying, I don’t think anyone can say what you are unless you yourself have not made such errors. Trump is not pro-abortion, if you have ever voted for Democrats generally speaking in the past 20 years then, you should probably not be saying these things.
You seem very partisan. If you have voted for Democrats as stated above, I’d say you’ve done worse than Trump.
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Victoria33
Guest
Trump beat back ISIS, terrorism remains a threat but Trump beat back ISIS who were heavily persecuting Christians in Syria/Iraq, even accused of committing genocide against Christians, Kurds, Yazidi, Shia Muslims and others. Trump has in fact, done one of the greatest things in beating back ISIS (and yes, he basically just let the military do their duty), Trump has also done many pro-life things.
Trump’s accusers are the Democrats and I’m sorry, Planned Parenthood are the Democrats among other things, Would one really trust the Abortion industry? NO. Also, the Democrats were just trying to impeach Kavanaugh last week. So, we take this as coincidence?
Trump’s accusers are the Democrats and I’m sorry, Planned Parenthood are the Democrats among other things, Would one really trust the Abortion industry? NO. Also, the Democrats were just trying to impeach Kavanaugh last week. So, we take this as coincidence?
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Dovekin
Guest
Biden, the IMF, etc. wanted Shokin fired because he was not investigating corruption cases, which was his job. If anything, Biden made it more likely his son would be investigated if he had done anything wrong. The current prosecutor said that he has not received any evidence of wrongdoing by Hunter Biden.
There are lots of things that can still be investigated in this case, as is true of almost anything in the Ukraine. It just does not seem likely that Joe Biden did anything wrong by pushing for more investigation into corruption.
There are lots of things that can still be investigated in this case, as is true of almost anything in the Ukraine. It just does not seem likely that Joe Biden did anything wrong by pushing for more investigation into corruption.
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Metis1
Guest
In regards to the OP, I seriously do not believe any of our presidents were Divinely appointed, thus there’s no theological roadblock for their impeachment if decided upon.
Secondly, as Catholics were are told not to be one-issue voters as there are many things that should be taken into consideration.
Finally, may each of you have a most blessed Lord’s Day.
Secondly, as Catholics were are told not to be one-issue voters as there are many things that should be taken into consideration.
Finally, may each of you have a most blessed Lord’s Day.
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Victoria33
Guest
This is what we are hearing but there are some who disagree with this interpretation of events,
Reporter John Solomon reports Skokin was sacked because he was investigating Biden, Skokin has sworn that this is why he was fired. Solomon has documents and they are posted on the internet where it is said these documents show Skokin was investigating Biden.
The former Prime Minister of Ukraine says Biden should be investigated:
Also, Joe Biden bragged he got a corruption investigator fired, Biden said this in a public place, the CFR, so, I think that makes it game.
The government belongs to We The People, so why some see Trump’s actions as wrong, others see it as rightful in trying to find out about Corruption.
We are holding back $100 million from Afghanistan and you know why? Corruption.
We held back in the past Nigerian aid because of corruption and that was under Obama.
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farronwolf
New member
You find it offensive that Biden and his son made money due to the positions they held or hold. Do you find fault with Trump doing the same thing? Are you calling for an investigation on Trump as well?
Yep, we withheld 1 billion, and the IMF was withholding 40 billion in guarantees. The EU was pressuring for Shokin’s dismissal.
All of Ukraine claims the guy was not corrupt, really. Where are you getting your info from?
Again, you haven’t read any of the facts, he was fired for his own corruption, and was being pressured to investigate the company that Hunter Biden sat on the board of, not wanting to investigate the company. You are 180 degrees wrong on the facts.
One question. Who is over the DOJ who would do the investigation? Answer the POTUS. If he wants it investigated he would tell Barr to do the investigation. Why do you say it needs to be investigated, when the president has the power to do it, but is simply spouting nonsense, but hasn’t requested it.
The logic of some of the arguments I hear, or lack of logic is simply astounding.
Yep, we withheld 1 billion, and the IMF was withholding 40 billion in guarantees. The EU was pressuring for Shokin’s dismissal.
All of Ukraine claims the guy was not corrupt, really. Where are you getting your info from?
Again, you haven’t read any of the facts, he was fired for his own corruption, and was being pressured to investigate the company that Hunter Biden sat on the board of, not wanting to investigate the company. You are 180 degrees wrong on the facts.
One question. Who is over the DOJ who would do the investigation? Answer the POTUS. If he wants it investigated he would tell Barr to do the investigation. Why do you say it needs to be investigated, when the president has the power to do it, but is simply spouting nonsense, but hasn’t requested it.
The logic of some of the arguments I hear, or lack of logic is simply astounding.
farronwolf
New member
You mean the former Prime Minister who was sentenced to 13 years in prison for high treason by Ukrainian courts, but can’t be imprisoned because he has fled to Russia after the people in his country ran him out.
Yea, lets take his word for it.
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Usagi
Guest
As others have pointed out, the U.S. President is not a king or emperor. “The state” does not rise or fall with him.
This isn’t the citizenry taking part in an unlawful revolution or coup. This is one arm of the state exercising its explicit authority to investigate and, if warranted, punish (with removal from office) the misdeeds of an official.
Should there be no recourse but a direct smiting from God if an authority figure is a poor or even criminal one?
She certainly may, but nothing requires others to take her interpretation seriously, much less as authoritative.
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Victoria33
Guest
The memos raise troubling questions:
1.) If the Ukraine prosecutor’s firing involved only his alleged corruption and ineptitude, why did Burisma’s American legal team refer to those allegations as “false information?"
2.) If the firing had nothing to do with the Burisma case, as Biden has adamantly claimed, why would Burisma’s American lawyers contact the replacement prosecutor within hours of the termination and urgently seek a meeting in Ukraine to discuss the case?
Ukrainian prosecutors say they have tried to get this information to the U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) since the summer of 2018, fearing it might be evidence of possible violations of U.S. ethics laws. First, they hired a former federal prosecutor to bring the information to the U.S. attorney in New York, who, they say, showed no interest. Then, the Ukrainians reached out to President Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudy GiulianiRudy GiulianiGiuliani pulls out of event featuring Putin: reports The Hill’s 12:30 Report: Pelosi attacks Barr over Ukraine call Feinstein calls for ‘word-for-word’ transcript of Trump call at heart of impeachment inquiry MORE.
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Victoria33
Guest
Well, if one side is welded into representing and supporting Planned Parenthood in this country and other things, who tried to impeach Kavanaugh last week, their word isn’t that credible either if you are going that way.
Yeah, let’s take their word for it.
farronwolf
New member
Deflection, always the case when your argument doesn’t have a leg to stand on.
Did you actually even know the former prime minister was convicted? Probably not.
Did you know he was run out of his own country? Probably not.
Did you actually even know the former prime minister was convicted? Probably not.
Did you know he was run out of his own country? Probably not.
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Victoria33
Guest
Deflection to you then, the PM was tried en absentia. Did you know that?
Did you know the US has been accused of fomenting a coup there?
Zelenskiy came in to power I believe mainly to stop corruption. Did you know Poroschenko’s government was seen as being very corrupt as well?
Maybe I didn’t know that but if you know so much… you know a lot of people call the Euromaidan a Coup, I DO NOT… however, that those are the reasons he fled the country is now quite a bit different than if he were sitting in Ukraine and was convicted that way, he was convicted as a fugitive from the Law.
I don’t call Ukraine a coup but many people do. The whole matter should be investigated.
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