Is Islam a threat to Christianity around the globe?

[sedonaman]

The State is a lot more ephemeral than the individual.

How many people do you know who are even 200 years old?

What “better things” were “we” thinking about? And how exactly did an isolationist attitude get anyone (presumably you are talking about the U.S.) *into *WWII?

The point is that isolationism dominated the country’s approach to foreign affairs in the late ‘30s. One form of avoiding violent conflict is just to ignore aggressive actions by a foreign power in the hope that they themselves will curtail their hostile conduct over time, if they are not aggravated or confronted directly. How successful was this purposeful disregard in preventing the chaos of war?

As a result of this isolationism, the U.S. tried to appease Japan by ignoring its aggression against Pacific neighbors between 1894 and 1941. This led the Japanese to conclude that the U.S. didn’t care about Japan’s expansion in the Pacific and would do nothing if its fleet were attacked at Pearl Harbor. It had the opposite effect. Our declaration of war against Japan forced Hitler to honor his alliance with Japan and declared war on the U.S. only days later.

Conclusion: Ignoring a threat posed by an aggressor doesn’t work.

My point is that we should think about goodness and truth. We should be asking ourselves what goodness and truth there is in Islam, … There’s little beauty or truth in Bin Laden’s version of Islam.

You would be playing with dynamite. There were some good things about Hitler’s regime, too, such as high employment; but sitting around thinking about that “goodness” would have done nothing to prevent our forced entry into WW-II. The fact is that bin Laden’s version exists and has a lot of followers, and it wasn’t bin Laden who invented “his” version.

Conclusion: Pretending a threat doesn’t exist is the same as ignoring it and therefore just as dangerous.

 

[sedonaman]

Now that is hateful Islam bashing. We are called as christians to be kind to our all people, even our enemies…

How is criticizing an idea equal to being unkind to people?

 

[planten]

Thanks Jehoshua for pointing out planten’s error on Hitler. In addition…Mussilini was an atheist…not a Christian.

As far as the cross in Nazism…it is adapted from the Asian Indian Swastika which is a sacred symbol in Hinduism. It has nothing to do with Christianity. To associate the cross of Nazi Germany with Christianity is no different than associating the cresent moon with its many other uses including early Arabian paganism.

spn, it is easy for you to disown Hitler and Mussolini. You have called them non-catholics and atheists. It is a bit late news now after their debacle. I do not believe you. They were political figures of their country and their people. Such persons always need support of their people. Support from any corner which could help them become popular and gain votes.

They could never go against the prevalent faith of the people. I said, I do not believe you, for another reason too. Do you mean to say that all the followers of Hitler were blind and anti-Catholic. That cannot be true. Surely Hitler had a religion. But he made bad use of it.

He was a christian and terribly anti Jew (anti-Semetic). He was killing the Jews as a political as well as a holy christain duty. If he was an atheist then why was he only against the Jews??

I hope you will think over. Did the people in 1930 A.D. to 1939 A.D. consider Hitler as an atheist or anti-Catholic?? Surely not. The German people would have risen against him. But they all believed that he was good person, good christian and good national. Once he built his power base, he did not listen to any one and he went on one party rule (or whatever bad ideas he had.).

I wonder if there was any voice raised against his bad relgious beliefs in his life time. I hope not. Every one was quiet on the subject. If help had not come from outside, the Germans (and free world) would have been ruined by his ideas.

 

[sedonaman]

spn, it is easy for you to disown Hitler and Mussolini. You have called them non-catholics and atheists. It is a bit late news now after their debacle. I do not believe you. They were political figures of their country and their people. Such persons always need support of their people. Support from any corner which could help them become popular and gain votes.

They could never go against the prevalent faith of the people. I said, I do not believe you, for another reason too. Do you mean to say that all the followers of Hitler were blind and anti-Catholic. That cannot be true. Surely Hitler had a religion. But he made bad use of it.

He was a christian and terribly anti Jew (anti-Semetic). He was killing the Jews as a political as well as a holy christain duty. If he was an atheist then why was he only against the Jews??

I hope you will think over. Did the people in 1930 A.D. to 1939 A.D. consider Hitler as an atheist or anti-Catholic?? Surely not. The German people would have risen against him. But they all believed that he was good person, good christian and good national. Once he built his power base, he did not listen to any one and he went on one party rule (or whatever bad ideas he had.).

I wonder if there was any voice raised against his bad relgious beliefs in his life time. I hope not. Every one was quiet on the subject. If help had not come from outside, the Germans (and free world) would have been ruined by his ideas.

Then Islam has to take ownership of bin Laden. So you can’t claim he [and other terrorists] are not practicing “the real” Islam.

 

[spn82756]

spn, it is easy for you to disown Hitler and Mussolini. You have called them non-catholics and atheists. It is a bit late news now after their debacle. I do not believe you. They were political figures of their country and their people. Such persons always need support of their people. Support from any corner which could help them become popular and gain votes.

Whether you believe me or not doesn’t change the truth. Mussolini was an atheist. From NNDB.com

Benito Mussolini

http://www.nndb.com/people/468/000045333/benito.gifAKA Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini
Born: 29-Jul-1883
Birthplace: Predappio, Romagna, Italy
Died: 28-Apr-1945
Location of death: Mezzegra, Como, Italy
Cause of death: Execution
Remains: Buried, Mussolini Family Tomb, Predappio, Italy

Gender: Male
Religion: Atheist
Race or Ethnicity: White
Sexual orientation: Straight
Occupation: Head of State Nationality: Italy
Executive summary: Fascist Dictator of Italy

Hitler was excommunicated by the Church:

Hitler was already excommunicated ipso facto under the canon law of the Catholic Church for his numerous sinful crimes. He could only have returned to the Catholic faith, even assuming that he would ever have wanted to, by having his excommunication removed by the Pope himself. The lifting of such excommunication is reserved to the Pope, latae sententiae.

Furthermore, the conference of German bishops excommunicated all Nazis in 1930, and in the 1932 elections forbade Catholics to vote for a Nazi. By being the leader of the Nazi party, Hitler had already put himself outside of the Church.

They could never go against the prevalent faith of the people. I said, I do not believe you, for another reason too. Do you mean to say that all the followers of Hitler were blind and anti-Catholic. That cannot be true. Surely Hitler had a religion. But he made bad use of it.

Hitler had intended to kidnap the Pope and hold him hostage. Hitler was not a Catholic. Haven’t you been screaming that terrorists are not real Muslims? But when it’s to your advantage to use the reverse argument you do.

He was a christian and terribly anti Jew (anti-Semetic). He was killing the Jews as a political as well as a holy christain duty. If he was an atheist then why was he only against the Jews??

Again…he was not a Christian! He was not using any holy Christian duty to kill jews. He killed jews simply because he made them scapegoats for all of Germany’s problems. Don’t be ridiculous. You’re losing my respect.

I hope you will think over. Did the people in 1930 A.D. to 1939 A.D. consider Hitler as an atheist or anti-Catholic?? Surely not. The German people would have risen against him. But they all believed that he was good person, good christian and good national. Once he built his power base, he did not listen to any one and he went on one party rule (or whatever bad ideas he had.).

How do you know whether he was considered a Christian or not by the people. Hitler made the people worship him. There is nothing Christian about worshipping a man. People in Germany at the time were poor and struggling. Hitler lead them to believe that he could make life better for them…and that the Jews were behind all the problems.

I wonder if there was any voice raised against his bad relgious beliefs in his life time. I hope not. Every one was quiet on the subject. If help had not come from outside, the Germans (and free world) would have been ruined by his ideas.

You mean like muslim clerics not speaking out against your own Hitler…bin Laden?

 

[SnakeMauler]

In the book of Exodus God said something like “I am who I am” or something along the lienes of Moses to tell people God’s name is " I AM". What this means it that God’s name isn’t really important because hes so infinite and not finite and should simply be called “God”.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

In the book of Exodus God said something like “I am who I am” or something along the lienes of Moses to tell people God’s name is " I AM". What this means it that God’s name isn’t really important because hes so infinite and not finite and should simply be called “God”.

What it means is that God is eternally present, no matter what reference frame you’re looking at. This Name of God was so sacred the Jews couldn’t even utter it. The Name “I AM” reveals God’s eternal nature.

Jesus repeated this truth in the Gospel of John when He told the Jews, “Before Abraham was born, I AM.” And then, very naturally, they immediately tried to stone Him because He’d claimed to be the eternal God. The way Jesus used those words revealed His eternal nature. If the Name of God wasn’t important, the Our Father Jesus taught the Church would not start with the words, “Hallowed be thy Name,” and the apostles wouldn’t have healed people, “In the Name of Jesus,” and Peter wouldn’t have told the crowds, “There is no other Name under Heaven by which you can be saved.”

 

[spn82756]

What it means is that God is eternally present, no matter what reference frame you’re looking at. This Name of God was so sacred the Jews couldn’t even utter it. The Name “I AM” reveals God’s eternal nature.

Jesus repeated this truth in the Gospel of John when He told the Jews, “Before Abraham was born, I AM.” And then, very naturally, they immediately tried to stone Him because He’d claimed to be the eternal God. The way Jesus used those words revealed His eternal nature. If the Name of God wasn’t important, the Our Father Jesus taught the Church would not start with the words, “Hallowed be thy Name,” and the apostles wouldn’t have healed people, “In the Name of Jesus,” and Peter wouldn’t have told the crowds, “There is no other Name under Heaven by which you can be saved.”

Very well said. You may want to put this in this thread also…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6172311#post6172311

I posted something similar…but shorter. Go for it!

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

As I already said, you can befriend the Anti-Christ or be civil, its your choice. I’m not your God. If Elijah was like you or Nine_Two, then there would be no challenge at Mt Carmel, if John the Baptist was like you, then the Pharisees would not be chastised for their sins at the Jordan. If Samson was like you or NIne_Two, the Philistines would not be fighting the Jews.

You see. If these people of God were like you, God wouldn’t even be able to set a foot forward for the path of righteousness through righteous men.

You know what happens to ‘christians’ who are lukewarm? They get SPAT OUT. And no, the Anti-Christ is not my erring brother. He might be yours, but certainly not mine.

Show me a verse in the bible that says to befriend or be civil to the Anti-Christ, and I’ll gladly join you.

I’m very sorry to see that my post was not read, because that isn’t what I was suggesting, and I really did give verses from the Bible to prove my case.

No where did I say be entirely complacent and lukewarm, I even clarified that though we are to love neither are we to deny Him. Christ said many times that His followers will be guided by the Holy Spirit to say what they must say in times of great persecution. We are not judges, but we are messengers, and if we uphold that message then we perform the task granted to us by God.

The apostle Peter puts it best when he says: “When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly.” The anti-Christ will persecute us and kill us, but we are not to return evil for evil, but show God’s love. We are to continue entrusting ourselves “to him who judges justly.” As I said before, God is perfectly capable of handling His enemies on His own.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

The apostle Peter puts it best when he says: “When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly.” The anti-Christ will persecute us and kill us, but we are not to return evil for evil, but show God’s love. We are to continue entrusting ourselves “to him who judges justly.” As I said before, God is perfectly capable of handling His enemies on His own.

Well said!

I was walking home from Mass today and as I reached the top of a hill, I found myself looking at a glorious mountain range and skyline. I drank in that beauty for a while. I’d just been praying the Passion Rosary. It struck me that I was looking at an image of Mount Zion, and the mountain of Golgotha is one with Mount Zion. To climb Mount Zion, we must climb Mount Golgotha in unity with Jesus.

spn82756:

Very well said. You may want to put this in this thread also…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthrea…11#post6172311

I posted something similar…but shorter. Go for it!

I’ll think about posting there. It’s a somewhat different topic from this and over time I’ve stopped being fond of debate. Thanks for the invite .

 

[spn82756]

Well said!

I was walking home from Mass today and as I reached the top of a hill, I found myself looking at a glorious mountain range and skyline. I drank in that beauty for a while. I’d just been praying the Passion Rosary. It struck me that I was looking at an image of Mount Zion, and the mountain of Golgotha is one with Mount Zion. To climb Mount Zion, we must climb Mount Golgotha in unity with Jesus.

I’ll think about posting there. Thanks for the invite .

That link I provided doesn’t seem to work. The threas is: Is Belief In His Deity Essencial to salvation?

 

[Lief_Erikson]

That link I provided doesn’t seem to work. The threas is: Is Belief In His Deity Essencial to salvation?

For some reason, the link worked for me a little while ago. But now it’s stopped.

 

[spn82756]

For some reason, the link worked for me a little while ago. But now it’s stopped.

Try this…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=415412&goto=newpost

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Okay, I found it and posted. I just googled the thread title in quotation marks and the thread came up.

 

[staffsgt7]

How is criticizing an idea equal to being unkind to people?

the ones who use this excuse to try to stop discussing Islam are the ones with the problem who are unable to separate the ideology from the people and/or they are Muslims. In Islam it is haram for unbelievers to discuss anything Islam.

Geert Wilders is currently going to go on trial for doing just that. This is exactly what some want for our Western countries to do. To obey Islam’s laws and shut us up.

 

[PA650]

How do you know whether he was considered a Christian or not by the people. Hitler made the people worship him. There is nothing Christian about worshipping a man. People in Germany at the time were poor and struggling. Hitler lead them to believe that he could make life better for them…and that the Jews were behind all the problems.

Good point, spn82756. Planten, I such you invest sometime in reading The Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt.

 

[staffsgt7]

From MODERATE Islamic Malaysia: Non-Muslims not to use 35 Islamic terms: Diktat

This is a way to make sure the non-Muslims are not discussing Islam.

The list of terms not to be used by non-Muslims include Allah, Firman Allah (Allah’s decree), solat (daily prayers), Rasul (prophet), mubaligh (missionary), mufti, iman (faith), Kaabah (the Holy cubicle), Qiblat (direction in which the Muslims pray), and Haji (Muslims who have done his pilgrimage), Selangor Islamic Religious Department (Jais) director Mohammed Khusrin Munawi said.

“These are listed under the Control and Restriction of the Propagation of Non-Islamic Religious Enactment. They cannot be used to promote religions other than Islam,” he noted.

The religious diktat comes amid attacks on nine churches and a Gurdwara in Malaysia following a court verdict to allow a Catholic magazine ‘Herald’ to use the word “Allah” when referring to God.

Is this a way to ensure that no more peaceful Muslims start their violence again? Or to make the nonMuslims follow Sharia laws? (I say it is the 2nd reason to make those dhimmi follow Sharia laws and start making them feel subdued.) This is what happens when a population doesn’t have what we have in abundance, the internet, to make sure that the word gets out about what Islam really is and who Mohammed really was.

 

[spn82756]

From MODERATE Islamic Malaysia: Non-Muslims not to use 35 Islamic terms: Diktat

This is a way to make sure the non-Muslims are not discussing Islam.

Is this a way to ensure that no more peaceful Muslims start their violence again? Or to make the nonMuslims follow Sharia laws? (I say it is the 2nd reason to make those dhimmi follow Sharia laws and start making them feel subdued.) This is what happens when a population doesn’t have what we have in abundance, the internet, to make sure that the word gets out about what Islam really is and who Mohammed really was.

Ahhh…thanks for the link. Maybe planten and hamba can learn a little about their peace loving religion and its tolerance of others.

 

[Jehoshua]

How is criticizing an idea equal to being unkind to people?

The way the person involved goes about criticising Islam comes out as a personal insult to the muslims here. I don’t support Islam but i do believe that confronting it in the way the person did, in a personalised emotional attack on the person and ideology both is not what being a christian is about, and doesn;t serve our purposes either. I can, and will criticise Islam, but i will do it in a civil and intellectual way to show that i am better then those that hatefully spite christendom and christians in such a personal, malicious way as this person did, and does.

 

[planten]

Ahhh…thanks for the link. Maybe planten and hamba can learn a little about their peace loving religion and its tolerance of others.

spn, I do not know about hamba but I denounce such bad deeds of the Malayan Muslims. They have no right to do such things. I hope they have not legislated anything on those bad lines. They cannot take out a patent for the various religous terms. Some silly men are sitting at their head who are totally misguiding the poor Muslims there.

It is possible that some religious leaders from pakistan must have visited the Malaya and must have taught the bad things to them. At present Pakistan is the leader in all such bad, anti-civil, anti-human teachings in the name of Islam. It is the cradle base for all ignorance.

Soon we may see some more bizzare show from the Mullas there. I cannot believe what they are doing in the name of Islam. (period)