Is Islam a threat to Christianity around the globe?

[Nine_Two]

As I already said, you can befriend the Anti-Christ or be civil, its your choice. I’m not your God. If Elijah was like you or Nine_Two, then there would be no challenge at Mt Carmel, if John the Baptist was like you, then the Pharisees would not be chastised for their sins at the Jordan. If Samson was like you or NIne_Two, the Philistines would not be fighting the Jews.

I find that comparison with St. John rather interesting. I’m unsure what else I could have been said to be doing.

You see. If these people of God were like you, God wouldn’t even be able to set a foot forward for the path of righteousness through righteous men.

Really? Because we’re just saying what Christ said to do, and what he exemplified during his life. Apparently you don’t think Christ was a very good example.

You know what happens to ‘christians’ who are lukewarm? They get SPAT OUT. And no, the Anti-Christ is not my erring brother. He might be yours, but certainly not mine.

I’ve been to Laodicea. Sat among the ruins and read that portion of scripture. It certainly gives you an interesting outlook on it. The Laodiceans were being criticized not for being wrong, but for being useless. I certainly hope this is not your interpretation, and to be useless is something we must all watchout for, no matter how zealous we believe we are.

Show me a verse in the bible that says to befriend or be civil to the Anti-Christ, and I’ll gladly join you.

How about that one you were writting off when I entered this thread. “Love your your enemy” For you claim Christ commanded that we love our enemies and not his, but that suggests that his enemies are not yours. In essence you are claiming to be on the side of the anti-christ since you are not his enemy.

On a side note, and I do not hope I’m delving too much into someone elses personal life, Byzantine Wolf was a Muslim who befriended, and was civil with a number of Christians - myself included. You do no duty to them by denouncing them as the antichrist and using arguments that have no basis in reality. Nor do you turn anyone away from Islam, you can only preach to the choir of fellow zealots. I assume you know what happened to the historic zealots.

By the way, you should read my posts to Muslim members a bit more closely if you believe I am on their side. I am on the side of truth, and what you spew is no more true than what they spew.

 

[planten]

Whether Islam is a threat to christianity or not, I see some serious threat to Islam by the local Muslims in Malaya. ( unless there is some abuse of the name of Allah by the christians in Malaya). Even then, that is not the way to tackle the problem.

 

[Nine_Two]

Very good words. There is an advice for service.Most important, I see are the words “Fear God.” The christians are blaming the Muslims about that thing. They accuse the Muslim about fearing God and some slave/master relationship. I see the service relation here and the advice to fear God. That is exactly what the Muslims believe (Taqwa). It appears that the Catholics here do not know much about their religion.

That verse says nothing about submitting to Islam, it says to submit to the secular authorities insofar as their command does not force one to go against the teachings of Christianity, so in Egypt it means Coptic pig farmers have to let the state slaughter all their pigs, and in Indonesia, it means they have to submit to paying a tax for not being Muslim, but it does not mean that I, one who lives in Canada, should support such rule being placed over me.

 

[planten]

That verse says nothing about submitting to Islam, it says to submit to the secular authorities insofar as their command does not force one to go against the teachings of Christianity, so in Egypt it means Coptic pig farmers have to let the state slaughter all their pigs, and in Indonesia, it means they have to submit to paying a tax for not being Muslim, but it does not mean that I, one who lives in Canada, should support such rule being placed over me.

The Indonesian Muslims have no right to levy any tax from non-Muslims. They did not conquer the land and subjugate (allied) any non-Muslim land. So there is no Jizyah.

There is not to be any Jihad with weapons to spread Islam. There never was any such thing to spread islam in the past too. But normal political wars, exigencies needed the law of Jizyah.It is no more valid since there is not to be any Juhaad with weapons to conquer or Islamise a country.

There is no order to apply the islamic law on any non-Muslims too such as to compel them to become Muslim or to compell them to pray with Muslims.

Do not worry. No one will come to Canada to apply the Muslim laws on non-Muslims. It will never happen.

 

[planten]

Good point, spn82756. Planten, I such you invest sometime in reading The Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt.

PA, Of course, I know very little about Hitler. You may be knowing much more. I cannot reach your level of understanding of that bad person. I should not try to judge him too. That is not my duty. I may be wrong.

I know that the German philosophers were teaching the theory of Toatalitarionism. Philosophers such as Freidreck Schiller… He said:
Immer Strebe Zum Ganzen… = Always strive for the Totality…

Those things made the Germans proud, perhaps, and later damaged their cause, their country. God knows best.

Should I try to read that book by Hannah Arendt?. But I do not need to read those things because I do not believe in Totalitarianism or Fundamentalism. Why should I waste my time on those things !!! How big is that book??

 

[Nine_Two]

PA, Of course, I know very little about Hitler. You may be knowing much more. I cannot reach your level of understanding of that bad person. I should not try to judge him too. That is not my duty. I may be wrong.

I know that the German philosophers were teaching the theory of Toatalitarionism. Philosophers such as Freidreck Schiller… He said:
Immer Strebe Zum Ganzen… = Always strive for the Totality…

Those things made the Germans proud, perhaps, and later damaged their cause, their country. God knows best.

Should I try to read that book by Hannah Arendt?. But I do not need to read those things because I do not believe in Totalitarianism or Fundamentalism. Why should I waste my time on those things !!! How big is that book??

Arendt wasn’t a fascist, in fact she was a German Jew who lived through the Second World War in Europe.

 

[Mosacked]

I find that comparison with St. John rather interesting. I’m unsure what else I could have been said to be doing.
Really? Because we’re just saying what Christ said to do, and what he exemplified during his life. Apparently you don’t think Christ was a very good example.
I’ve been to Laodicea. Sat among the ruins and read that portion of scripture. It certainly gives you an interesting outlook on it. The Laodiceans were being criticized not for being wrong, but for being useless. I certainly hope this is not your interpretation, and to be useless is something we must all watchout for, no matter how zealous we believe we are.

How about that one you were writting off when I entered this thread. “Love your your enemy” For you claim Christ commanded that we love our enemies and not his, but that suggests that his enemies are not yours. In essence you are claiming to be on the side of the anti-christ since you are not his enemy.

On a side note, and I do not hope I’m delving too much into someone elses personal life, Byzantine Wolf was a Muslim who befriended, and was civil with a number of Christians - myself included. You do no duty to them by denouncing them as the antichrist and using arguments that have no basis in reality. Nor do you turn anyone away from Islam, you can only preach to the choir of fellow zealots. I assume you know what happened to the historic zealots.

By the way, you should read my posts to Muslim members a bit more closely if you believe I am on their side. I am on the side of truth, and what you spew is no more true than what they spew.

I don’t know how you reach that conclusion that I am on the side of the anti-christ. You really need to check out your incoherent arguments. And no, I wasn’t complimenting you when I refered to John the Baptist I was saying if He was like you, his spirituality would be defunct.

I never said you are deliberately on their side. I merely said you are free to call yourself a christian and then befriend the Anti-Christ. Ultimately, you’re only making a mockery of your claims. It has nothing to do with me and nothing to do with God.

 

[Nine_Two]

I don’t know how you reach that conclusion that I am on the side of the anti-christ. You really need to check out your incoherent arguments. And no, I wasn’t complimenting you when I refered to John the Baptist I was saying if He was like you, his spirituality would be defunct.

Simple, you claim that Christs enemies are not your enemies, otherwise there yould be no dispute about loving your enemy.
And now you pass judgement on me, as the Lord commanded not to. It is difficult in these circumstances to not fall into the trap of doing likewise to you, thus I shall withdraw and allow you to stew in your own bitterness. Accuse me of being a Muslim if it pleases you, it makes no difference.
But first:

I never said you are deliberately on their side. I merely said you are free to call yourself a christian and then befriend the Anti-Christ. Ultimately, you’re only making a mockery of your claims. It has nothing to do with me and nothing to do with God.

Befriend? I invite you to read the posts I have made to those you judge as the antichrist, befriend? Is that what you call what I have been doing? I simply challenge you to put away false witness, that is not befriending them, I have challenged them on far more points than I have challenged you - of that you can be sure. I strive to be consistent, and I will speak out against idiocy, be it preached by Muslim, Jew, “Christian”.

 

[staffsgt7]

spn, I do not know about hamba but I denounce such bad deeds of the Malayan Muslims. They have no right to do such things. I hope they have not legislated anything on those bad lines. They cannot take out a patent for the various religous terms. Some silly men are sitting at their head who are totally misguiding the poor Muslims there.

It is possible that some religious leaders from pakistan must have visited the Malaya and must have taught the bad things to them. At present Pakistan is the leader in all such bad, anti-civil, anti-human teachings in the name of Islam. It is the cradle base for all ignorance.

Soon we may see some more bizzare show from the Mullas there. I cannot believe what they are doing in the name of Islam. (period)

Why are you not on any Sunni or Shia forums trying to convince them they are misunderstanding Islam? Telling us is useless since we are not the ones doing the violence. We only see 1. Muslims doing violence, 2. Muslims supporting violence with Muslim Charities (Sharia laws h.8) 3. Muslims telling us we misunderstand Islam when we can clearly read that the Koran and Sharia laws tell us that violence is always an option and that if a Muslim doesn’t want to wage Jihad violently then they are to do it with their tongues and with their wealth. (o.9) 4. Muslims who are not doing the violence doing nothing to change the violence within Islam.

We cannot change Islam, it has to come from Muslims. So Muslims like you think that coming on these types of forums is worthy of your energy why isn’t going on Muslim websites worthy of your energy?

I think you are just telling us what we want to hear and that is as dangerous as the Jihadists who spread terror and mischief because it is not real. You even admitted that ahmadis are treated just like non-Muslims are treated in the end in one of your posts. And the violent Jihadists have the Koran to back up their terror.

 

[Jehoshua]

Planten

You say you do not need to read things about Hitler or totalitarianism because of your ideology. But before then you make erroneous and untrue statements about Hitler and dictators to denigrate or somehow “proove” your points. Clearly you need to do research before you make such erroneous statements which is why that book by Hannah Arendt was suggested.

It is because you need to have knowledge of what your saying instead of just saying some unsabstantiated and false opinion. Its like if i said Muslims worship Muhammad which is clearly untrue. I would be saying something out of thin air. This is what you did with comments regarding Hitler and Catholic law. You need to do your research and actually say factual evidence instead of what are in actual fact, lies. That is why you should read the catechism before you comment on Catholic dogma or research abot Hitler before attempting to use him to denigrate Christianity.

 

[staffsgt7]

Why is it that Christians think that turning the other cheek means to lay down and die which means that their children would have to take up the burden of subjugation or slavery under Islam, or do the fighting? Especially in our lands today where we don’t have to let it get to the violent stage we can make sure we educate the other non-Muslims about Islam to either try to put a halt to them trying to put their barbaric laws into our laws. I would try to stop some other things but making sure their laws are not forced upon any non-Muslim and to tell them to keep their ideology to themselves. I know I don’t want it.

They feel they are persecuted when we tell them to keep it to themselves while the real persecutions go on in lands where Sharia laws are enforced. I don’t see a rise in crimes against non-Muslims although they accuse us of it. I do see a rise in crimes of Muslim against non-Muslim in ALL countries where they are growing in numbers. Planten and others do nothing to change Islam from within instead they try to convince us Islam is peaceful and the violence is because Muslims misunderstand Islam. I am getting tired of that hogwash.

 

[PA650]

PA, Of course, I know very little about Hitler. You may be knowing much more. I cannot reach your level of understanding of that bad person. I should not try to judge him too. That is not my duty. I may be wrong.

I know that the German philosophers were teaching the theory of Toatalitarionism. Philosophers such as Freidreck Schiller… He said:
Immer Strebe Zum Ganzen… = Always strive for the Totality…

Those things made the Germans proud, perhaps, and later damaged their cause, their country. God knows best.

Should I try to read that book by Hannah Arendt?. But I do not need to read those things because I do not believe in Totalitarianism or Fundamentalism. Why should I waste my time on those things !!! How big is that book??

Not everything I have read in my personal time or for a class at university have been subjects I’m particularly interested in. Nevertheless, I don’t feel I have wasted my time, but on the contrary, I have expanded my knowledge on a subject that maybe useful at some point. Thus, the political thought of totalitarianism can occur again in any society and Arendt’s analysis of it can be quite useful in identifying its trademarks so that it may not have the ability to occur again. Lastly,

The improvement of understanding is for two ends: first, our own increase of knowledge; secondly, to enable us to deliver that knowledge to others.
-John Locke

One more thing, it’s not a small book at all.

 

[staffsgt7]

Planten

You say you do not need to read things about Hitler or totalitarianism because of your ideology. But before then you make erroneous and untrue statements about Hitler and dictators to denigrate or somehow “proove” your points. Clearly you need to do research before you make such erroneous statements which is why that book by Hannah Arendt was suggested.

It is because you need to have knowledge of what your saying instead of just saying some unsabstantiated and false opinion. Its like if i said Muslims worship Muhammad which is clearly untrue. I would be saying something out of thin air. This is what you did with comments regarding Hitler and Catholic law. You need to do your research and actually say factual evidence instead of what are in actual fact, lies. That is why you should read the catechism before you comment on Catholic dogma or research abot Hitler before attempting to use him to denigrate Christianity.

I agree with you until you came to the part of Muslims worshiping Mohammed was untrue. It is very true. People die for telling the truth about Mohammed. Reading Islamic texts reinforced my opiniion too. When Mohammed figured out that violence got him his way he changed Allah to allow more violence against others. The only thing Allah or Mohammed didn’t change were the parts that allowed him to be sexually perverted. Islam is Mohammed worship. Sharia laws say that unbelievers should die for saying things against Mohammed and the Koran.

Mohammed worshiped the black rock when he was a pagan and the Muslims worship it now. They think the thing takes away their sins and speaks for them on judgement day. They think that running around it and doing some other things and running to another rock is one of their requirements to get to heaven. During Mohammed’s time they used to do it naked and now they don a white robe with nothing on underneath.

Many people have died over speaking bad about the Koran too.

The trilogy of Islam is Allah/Mohammed, the Koran and the black rock.

 

[Mosacked]

I agree with you until you came to the part of Muslims worshiping Mohammed was untrue. It is very true. People die for telling the truth about Mohammed. Reading Islamic texts reinforced my opiniion too. When Mohammed figured out that violence got him his way he changed Allah to allow more violence against others. The only thing Allah or Mohammed didn’t change were the parts that allowed him to be sexually perverted. Islam is Mohammed worship. Sharia laws say that unbelievers should die for saying things against Mohammed and the Koran.

Mohammed worshiped the black rock when he was a pagan and the Muslims worship it now. They think the thing takes away their sins and speaks for them on judgement day. They think that running around it and doing some other things and running to another rock is one of their requirements to get to heaven. During Mohammed’s time they used to do it naked and now they don a white robe with nothing on underneath.

Many people have died over speaking bad about the Koran too.

The trilogy of Islam is Allah/Mohammed, the Koran and the black rock.

Awesome!

 

[staffsgt7]

Not everything I have read in my personal time or for a class at university have been subjects I’m particularly interested in. Nevertheless, I don’t feel I have wasted my time, but on the contrary, I have expanded my knowledge on a subject that maybe useful at some point. Thus, the political thought of totalitarianism can occur again in any society and Arendt’s analysis of it can be quite useful in identifying its trademarks so that it may not have the ability to occur again. Lastly,

One more thing, it’s not a small book at all.

Another reason for taking subjects that a person isn’t particularly interested in is to exercise the brain. Use it or lose it. Could it be that the young people are more frustrated with their own lives because they learn no useful trade to raise themselves up and use every excuse they can think of to be Jihadists so they can hopefully die and get a free pass into their heaven? I think so. They blame the West, they blame the Jews, they blame everyone else for their own failures.

I don’t see that same exercising of the brain in Islamic countries where hours upon hours of Koranic study is the only thing that the kids learn. If a kid is poor in memorization but would have been good in science, math or literature that avenue is not open to that kid. They learn the Koran in a language not their own so most don’t know the trash that is in it.

I don’t discount that there are a lot of Muslims who are very intelligent but will never get the opportunity to be anything other than useless robots.

Take a look at the difference of what over a billion people have produced vs what a few million have produced between 1980 and 2000. Remember that those few million have to keep on defending themselves against the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians and Hezbollah so are not totally free to pursue intellectual pursuits at times.

between 1980 and 2000, Egyptians registered 77 patents in the U.S. Saudis registered 171. Israelis registered 7,652.

Now wouldn’t it be grand that over a billion people would wake up and realize that killing and being killed, persecuting and hating others just because they are not Muslims is a total waste of time? All those billions just wasting away in some perverted mind thought. We could be reaching the far corners of outer space, creating ways to help humans have a better quality of life, or curing diseases and making our planet a good place for both human beings and animals. Instead they are held down by some perverted prophet and his idea of an Allah that is just wrong.

 

[Jehoshua]

Point is, ive studied Islam and I know personally muslims, and i’ve seen no evidence of actual worship of Muhammad in the sense that Christians or people of any other religion worship God. They may have an unhealthy sense of veneration for him (Muhammad) and have disturbing vestiges of arab paganism yes, but they do not worship Muhammad.

Im no friend of Islam but i have to say, that in effect what your saying about Islam is equivalent of what some sadly misinformed protestants say about Catholics and saints, or catholics and Mary. Substantiate your claims with evidence before making unfounded remarks.

 

[Mosacked]

Point is, ive studied Islam and I know personally muslims, and i’ve seen no evidence of actual worship of Muhammad in the sense that Christians or people of any other religion worship God. They may have an unhealthy sense of veneration for him (Muhammad) and have disturbing vestiges of arab paganism yes, but they do not worship Muhammad.

Im no friend of Islam but i have to say, that in effect what your saying about Islam is equivalent of what some sadly misinformed protestants say about Catholics and saints, or catholics and Mary. Substantiate your claims with evidence before making unfounded remarks.

There are almost equal number of believers on both sides…protestants & catholics. Both sides asking the other to substantiate their claims. And really, using this as an example to envelope whatever has been well proven against the cause of islam is to diminish what has so far been achieved.

If muslims do not worship muhammad, why do they visit his tomb on their pilgrimages and many bow to it?

So, if a person kisses your wife and sleeps with her, he does not commit adultery with her but only trying your bed? Worship is not admitted, it is practiced and observed.

 

[staffsgt7]

Awesome!

I have been doing a lot of reading of faithfreedom.org and what Ali Sina puts out.

Jehoshua, the Koran and Sharia laws. I already pointed out that I have done a lot of reading of Sharia laws and the most disgusting book I have ever read, the Koran. I have read many hadith and Ishaq. There are some former Muslims who talk about the black rock on faithfreedom.org and other things.

If you disagree that is fine. I didn’t try to belittle you when I disagreed.

I know what some have said about Catholics, Mary and all the statues and stuff. I don’t really care about Catholics and all that stuff, they are not trying to subjugate or kill me because I don’t believe in it. I don’t even care about Islam other than they think they are superior just because they are Muslims when all of it is just a bunch of hogwash. Their Sharia laws say to kill polytheists because they don’t care to take the time to understand Christians. I have taken the time to look at Islam and it is nothing but Mohammed worship. When an ideology says that a black rock takes away sins and speaks for them on judgement day, and their behavior around that rock indicates worship, well, it is worship. They can admit to it or not. It is irrelevent in the scheme of things EXCEPT that they are putting themselves up as moral superiors when they are not.

It goes to the way they label morality when discussing labeling babies a wife so they can sodomize that baby until she is older. It is ok in Sharia laws, but if they talk about the West they feel the West is immoral because of some pediphilia priests that (finally) got caught. It is all a matter of definitions of words. They label Christians polytheists while they do not label themselves polytheists when they do the same thing. This label is a justification for persecuting and killing people. They label the Westerners immoral because of such things as pediphilia and they do not label themselves pediphiles for marrying children as young as 1 yr. old.

I only use this one example. There are many others that I could have used and I hope you see what I am trying to say.

 

[staffsgt7]

There are almost equal number of believers on both sides…protestants & catholics. Both sides asking the other to substantiate their claims. And really, using this as an example to envelope whatever has been well proven against the cause of islam is to diminish what has so far been achieved.

If muslims do not worship muhammad, why do they visit his tomb on their pilgrimages and many bow to it?

So, if a person kisses your wife and sleeps with her, he does not commit adultery with her but only trying your bed? Worship is not admitted, it is practiced and observed.

That is sort of how Ali Sina explained it.

 

[Nine_Two]

Point is, ive studied Islam and I know personally muslims, and i’ve seen no evidence of actual worship of Muhammad in the sense that Christians or people of any other religion worship God. They may have an unhealthy sense of veneration for him (Muhammad) and have disturbing vestiges of arab paganism yes, but they do not worship Muhammad.

Depends. The Muslim are certainly guilty of their own concept of Shirk, which they equate with worship, both towards Mohammed and the Kaba. I remember seeing Mohammeds hair (I think it was facial hair) venerated as we would venerate a saint when I was in Konya (I have been told numerous times since I got home, by Muslims, that I did not, infact see this). So if they consider our veneration of saints to be worship, they certainly are guilty by their own definition, if they accept we engage only in veneration, then no, they don’t worship Mohammed - but that also means the Koran is wrong. They have a bit of a catch-22 there.

Im no friend of Islam but i have to say, that in effect what your saying about Islam is equivalent of what some sadly misinformed protestants say about Catholics and saints, or catholics and Mary. Substantiate your claims with evidence before making unfounded remarks.

I quite agree, arguing down at thatlevel only makes one look a fool.