S
shamsery
Guest
r.gonzales said:
Numerological sequence has a great impact.
Please study.
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Numerological sequence has a great impact.
Please study.
M
manx
Guest
PK,
Since you are so obsessed with this moon-god joke, I am doing the Muslims a favor by posting some articles that I found regarding this subject. One of them is this fatwa (Islamic verdict):
Question of Fatwa “What is the meaning in Islam of the Crescent Moon and Star?”
Hello and thank you for answering my question! While being not a Muslim, I find the Qur’an a very interesting work. I’m currently doing some research concerning various religious symbols and I hope that you could help me. I don’t know who else to ask. The symbol for Islam is the crescent moon and star, but, I can find no mention as to its symbolism and how it originated. I have asked a few of my Muslim friends and they didn’t know. Any info you could give me and any passages from the Qur’an concerning its symbolism/origin would be greatly appreciated and help with my continuing research. Thank you.
Name of Mufti A Group of Islamic Researchers
Content of Reply
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
First of all, we’d like to voice our appreciation for the confidence you repose in us, and we hope our efforts come up to your expectation, and pray to Almighty Allah to help you in your study.
The American Muslim scholar, Sheik Yusuf Estes, Director of islamtomorrow.com, and National Chaplain , adds:
“The symbol of Islam IS NOT the crescent moon and the star, but it was used by the last Islamic Dynasty, the Ottoman’s. The Ottoman Empire deemed it appropriate to use the star and crescent as their symbols, but not the symbols of Islam. I repeat, the star and the crescent moon are not a part of the religion of Islam. Because Islam is so strict on the concept of no other gods with Allah; and no images of any kind; it is a mistake to consider that Islam authorized the general use of such things. Additionally, Islam forbids the images (statues) of any kinds of humans, animals or any of Allah’s creations, so how about using a symbol for Islam?”
As for the issue you raised, we’d like to state that “the crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to ascertain, but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods. There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana.
The city of Byzantium (later known as Constantinople and Istanbul) adopted the crescent moon symbol. According to some reports, they chose it in honor of the goddess Diana. Others indicate that it dates back to a battle in which the Romans defeated the Goths on the first day of a lunar month. In any event, the crescent moon was featured on the city’s flag even before the birth of Christ.
The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.
It wasn’t until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city’s existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Othman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five daily prayers, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, and it is also not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.
For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people’s minds with the faith of Islam as a whole.
Based on this history, many Muslims reject using the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically adopted no symbol, and many refuse to accept what is essentially an ancient pagan icon.”
Excerpted, with slight modifications, from:
islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa060401b.htm
Allah Almighty knows best.
end of fatwa
manx
Since you are so obsessed with this moon-god joke, I am doing the Muslims a favor by posting some articles that I found regarding this subject. One of them is this fatwa (Islamic verdict):
Question of Fatwa “What is the meaning in Islam of the Crescent Moon and Star?”
Hello and thank you for answering my question! While being not a Muslim, I find the Qur’an a very interesting work. I’m currently doing some research concerning various religious symbols and I hope that you could help me. I don’t know who else to ask. The symbol for Islam is the crescent moon and star, but, I can find no mention as to its symbolism and how it originated. I have asked a few of my Muslim friends and they didn’t know. Any info you could give me and any passages from the Qur’an concerning its symbolism/origin would be greatly appreciated and help with my continuing research. Thank you.
Name of Mufti A Group of Islamic Researchers
Content of Reply
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
First of all, we’d like to voice our appreciation for the confidence you repose in us, and we hope our efforts come up to your expectation, and pray to Almighty Allah to help you in your study.
The American Muslim scholar, Sheik Yusuf Estes, Director of islamtomorrow.com, and National Chaplain , adds:
“The symbol of Islam IS NOT the crescent moon and the star, but it was used by the last Islamic Dynasty, the Ottoman’s. The Ottoman Empire deemed it appropriate to use the star and crescent as their symbols, but not the symbols of Islam. I repeat, the star and the crescent moon are not a part of the religion of Islam. Because Islam is so strict on the concept of no other gods with Allah; and no images of any kind; it is a mistake to consider that Islam authorized the general use of such things. Additionally, Islam forbids the images (statues) of any kinds of humans, animals or any of Allah’s creations, so how about using a symbol for Islam?”
As for the issue you raised, we’d like to state that “the crescent moon and star symbol actually pre-dates Islam by several thousand years. Information on the origins of the symbol are difficult to ascertain, but most sources agree that these ancient celestial symbols were in use by the peoples of Central Asia and Siberia in their worship of sun, moon, and sky gods. There are also reports that the crescent moon and star were used to represent the Carthaginian goddess Tanit or the Greek goddess Diana.
The city of Byzantium (later known as Constantinople and Istanbul) adopted the crescent moon symbol. According to some reports, they chose it in honor of the goddess Diana. Others indicate that it dates back to a battle in which the Romans defeated the Goths on the first day of a lunar month. In any event, the crescent moon was featured on the city’s flag even before the birth of Christ.
The early Muslim community did not really have a symbol. During the time of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) Islamic armies and caravans flew simple solid-colored flags (generally black, green, or white) for identification purposes. In later generations, the Muslim leaders continued to use a simple black, white, or green flag with no markings, writing, or symbolism on it.
It wasn’t until the Ottoman Empire that the crescent moon and star became affiliated with the Muslim world. When the Turks conquered Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453, they adopted the city’s existing flag and symbol. Legend holds that the founder of the Ottoman Empire, Othman, had a dream in which the crescent moon stretched from one end of the earth to the other. Taking this as a good omen, he chose to keep the crescent and make it the symbol of his dynasty. There is speculation that the five points on the star represent the five daily prayers, but this is pure conjecture. The five points were not standard on the Ottoman flags, and it is also not standard on flags used in the Muslim world today.
For hundreds of years, the Ottoman Empire ruled over the Muslim world. After centuries of battle with Christian Europe, it is understandable how the symbols of this empire became linked in people’s minds with the faith of Islam as a whole.
Based on this history, many Muslims reject using the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam. The faith of Islam has historically adopted no symbol, and many refuse to accept what is essentially an ancient pagan icon.”
Excerpted, with slight modifications, from:
islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa060401b.htm
Allah Almighty knows best.
end of fatwa
manx
F
fatuma
Guest
You know from being here, I have come to the conclusion that we worship what you would call then ‘Father’. I gave myself the other day a headache trying to figure out this: you believe that God is 3 in 1 right, so if you say you worship Jesus (as) you also worship the father and the holy spirit because they are the same to you. Since we worship the father does that mean, in your logic, by default we also worship the other 2 because they are 3 in 1. Or something like that? I think I just confused my self. 
wa salam
wa salam
M
manx
Guest
If the Trinity doctrine is giving you headache, I suggest you stick to your concept of monotheism. Don’t try to mix it up coz you might end up consuming more paracetamol.. I think I just confused my self.
manx
U
UnworthySoul
Guest
Incorrect. Jesus was no mere prophet.
U
UnworthySoul
Guest
That is also incorrect, it sounds alike, but it was NOT the word “Allah.”
U
UnworthySoul
Guest
It means that you have not yet been able to see the fullness of the Truth as only revealed in the Most Holy Trinity. God willing, you will.You know from being here, I have come to the conclusion that we worship what you would call then ‘Father’. I gave myself the other day a headache trying to figure out this: you believe that God is 3 in 1 right, so if you say you worship Jesus (as) you also worship the father and the holy spirit because they are the same to you. Since we worship the father does that mean, in your logic, by default we also worship the other 2 because they are 3 in 1. Or something like that? I think I just confused my self.
wa salam
F
fatuma
Guest
I was not asking about the trinity. I was simply asking since you (catholic) state that God is 3 in, what if you only worship the father, by the 3 in 1 logic you would by default also be worshiping the son and holy spirit because they are all one.
wa salam
wa salam
I
iamrefreshed
Guest
If you only followed the first 1/3rd of the Qur’an would you be following Allah’s wishes?
R
RyanL
Guest
Fatuma,
The short answer is ‘yes’. The longer answer is ‘yes’ and ‘also’. Perhaps the following would help you understand what we believe. This is said by all members of the Church during mass.
Shalom,
RyanL
E
Emad
Guest
Hey Manx I really like your signature!! 
J
Jermin_Savory
Guest
In the name of Allah
**
Fatuma**: I was not asking about the trinity. I was simply asking since you (catholic) state that God is 3 in, what if you only worship the father, by the 3 in 1 logic you would by default also be worshiping the son and holy spirit because they are all one.
**
Jermin Savory**: I need a Catholic answer to the above? Are you guys worshiping three? No offense, Please explain…
**
Fatuma**: I was not asking about the trinity. I was simply asking since you (catholic) state that God is 3 in, what if you only worship the father, by the 3 in 1 logic you would by default also be worshiping the son and holy spirit because they are all one.
**
Jermin Savory**: I need a Catholic answer to the above? Are you guys worshiping three? No offense, Please explain…
R
RyanL
Guest
Jermin Savory said:
Jermin,
Your understanding of the Trinity is a bit off. We worship ONE GOD. Within the ONE GOD, there are three persons. Perhaps this may help in thinking about the Trinity:
Picture a shamrock blackdog4kids.com/holiday/pa…hamrock-med.gif
Each leaf of the shamrock is a Person of God. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The shamrock itself in this analogy is God. Now…which leaf *is *the shamrock? Can any leaf be the shamrock without the other? Is the shamrock only one leaf? No! All of the leaves are required for the shamrock to be a shamrock. Without any leaves, there is no shamrock. If you lose one leaf (or two), you do not have a shamrock. With all three leaves present, there is ONLY ONE shamrock. You cannot show me a shamrock by showing me just one leaf.
Another analogy with the same image: How many leaves are present on a shamrock? If three, why is there only one stem? If one, why are there three separate and distinct lobes? If you cannot grasp the mystery of a shamrock, you cannot understand the Trinity. (By the way, this is the way St. Patrick explained the Trinity to the Irish.)
There is no God but God. God is 3 and 1 at the same time. He is not 1 + 1 + 1 = 3, but rather 1 x 1 x 1 = 1.
Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!”
Peace be with you,
RyanL
F
Franze
Guest
In aramaic is Illah not Allah. In addition the arabic alphabet is made by christians
S
shamsery
Guest
What He was please?
U
UnworthySoul
Guest
By Catholic belief, Christ Jesus is that part of the Trinity known as the “Son” who is also God. So in short, Jesus is God made flesh.
F
fatuma
Guest
Yeah, but it’s each leaf in the shamrock independent of the others. Each leaf has its own chlorophyll that will get sunlight for it, its own vein system to bring nutrients and if one leaf was to be ripped off wouldn’t the others survive independently of each other? Isn’t each leaf on the shamrock its own unique leaf that has nothing to do with the others?
wa salam
wa salam
B
BigPaulie
Guest
Dear RyanL, Where did you get your copy of the Nicene Creed? It leaves out the word MEN in the 13th line!
eg;
Through him all things were made.
For us MEN and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
Please, if your going to present our creed to a Muslim, please! make it the church approved version, not this politicaly correct* feminized* nonsense !
Sincerely, Big Paulie
eg;
Through him all things were made.
For us MEN and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he was born of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
Please, if your going to present our creed to a Muslim, please! make it the church approved version, not this politicaly correct* feminized* nonsense !
Sincerely, Big Paulie
P
Proud_Kafir
Guest
Can you expect a same gesture from Muslims?. No. You can not.
Muslims Consider Christians as disbelievers, infidels.
Qur’an 5:17 “Verily they are disbelievers and infidels who say, ‘The Messiah, son of Mary, is God.’”
Has John Paul II read this before he kissed Quran ? Let Catholics not be deceived by Muslim’s Sugar Coated Islam which is diluted to deceive non-muslims. Muslims lie to gain advantages, especially in the West as long as Islam is in the minority and as long as it is weak. But as soon as Islam become powerful, all that sweet talk of tolerance is put aside, the mask will be off and the real face of Islam as evinced by its founder will become manifest. Then those phony smiles give way to showing the fangs. This is precisely how the Mohammed himself acted. When he was in Mecca and weak, he spoke of tolerance, but when he became powerful he forgot all that talk and started his campaign of genocide of the Jews and the Christians of Arabia. Same will happen in Europe if Catholics don’t wake up !
P
Proud_Kafir
Guest
Whether it is joke or not, Muslim’s Allah is not the same deity of Christians and Jews. Muslim’s worship some false deity which incites hate, violence, war, immorality etc. Those are fruits of Satan. Not the fruits of Real Loving God. Muslim’s Allah calls Christians as infidels, disbelievers, prohibited muslims to take friends from Christians and Jews. Almost in every muslim majority country, Christians and other non-muslims are suffering at the hands of Muslims. Recently in the so-called moderate muslim state Malaysia, Goverment is calling for banning the bible and Bible should be printed as “Not For Muslims”. All these confirms one thing to me, Islam is Anti-Christ.
- Status