Is it a Catholic Thing or a Sign of the Times?

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lola5555

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In the last five years or so, I keep seeing behaviors and reading things that give me small shocks. For example, people wearing flips-flops, short-shorts, and tank tops to mass. I’ve read about Catholic people (even clergy) getting angry when others simply hold to teachings of the Church. I was in an RCIA class when I heard a teacher teach that God is okay with premarital sex and He doesn’t mind if we ‘enjoy each others bodies.’ These are just a few small examples and it has been some random things like these.

I’m not that old, but I started to wonder if Christians in the US have changed a lot recently. Then I wondered if I’m noticing these things because I’ve been around more Catholics recently. Although I’ve always been Catholic, growing up in the 80s and 90s, I mostly hung out with Protestants because I went to an LCMS grammar school and a non-denominational high school. In these environments the culture was conservatively Christian. Although at our Catholic Church, the culture was just as conservative. So I don’t know…any insights?
 
No matter, what, thier will be many follows to the Catholic Regilion,for us that are true to are faith,nothinging can change us.We are their to take part in the Mass.
Yes, I have seen people coming dress in shorts,jeans, alter tops,low cut dresses,I also seen people not kneeling before entering the pew. But what counts, is the fact,are they their to take part in the Mass,or are they because they know that if they don,t go, it,is a mortal sin. I know, it,s wrong to wear things I see people do,but we are not to judge others, Jesus will, judges us in the end. So worry about your salavation,that of you Soul. If we Love Jesus, than we have nothinging to fear,for Jesus ,Father Loves,all that come and pray to his son,and receives the Host, of his body and Blood. Amen :heaven:
 
My biggest concern is that someone is teaching heresy in an RCIA class. Something like that needs to be brought to the attention of the pastor or bishop.
 
lola5555 said:
In the last five years or so, I keep seeing behaviors and reading things that give me small shocks. For example, people wearing flips-flops, short-shorts, and tank tops to mass. I’ve read about Catholic people (even clergy) getting angry when others simply hold to teachings of the Church. I was in an RCIA class when I heard a teacher teach that God is okay with premarital sex and He doesn’t mind if we ‘enjoy each others bodies.’ These are just a few small examples and it has been some random things like these.

I’m not that old, but I started to wonder if Christians in the US have changed a lot recently. Then I wondered if I’m noticing these things because I’ve been around more Catholics recently. Although I’ve always been Catholic, growing up in the 80s and 90s, I mostly hung out with Protestants because I went to an LCMS grammar school and a non-denominational high school. In these environments the culture was conservatively Christian. Although at our Catholic Church, the culture was just as conservative. So I don’t know…any insights?
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If your RCIA teacher said that, i would approach the priest because that isn’t what the Catholic Church teaches about sex and marriage. If the priest doesn’t listen, then I would find another RCIA class to attend.
 
It definitely isn’t just a Catholic thing, but I think it is a sign of the times. So many Christians, Catholic or not, seem to be so influenced by the culture that they ignore what God and the church have to say, or maybe they aren’t even aware of what the church teaches. Even many churches (individual Catholic churches or Protestant churches) are so influenced by the culture that what they teach is indistinguishable from what the world teaches. At my first Inquiry class, I mentioned that one of the things I really admire about the Catholic Church is its teaching on marriage. I wasn’t even thinking about its teaching against homosexual marriage, but that’s how the deacon’s wife interpreted my statement. She said she was sure as soon as all 50 states legalize gay marriage, the Catholic Church will change its teaching.

Sometimes, people just don’t think or they really don’t understand that some beliefs are unchanging no matter how our culture changes.

As for how people dress, we’re such a casual society that many people are unaware that how they dress may be interpreted as being disrespectful or immodest. It doesn’t seem that way to them, and they may not even own any other types of clothing.
 
robwar said:
If your RCIA teacher said that, i would approach the priest because that isn’t what the Catholic Church teaches about sex and marriage. If the priest doesn’t listen, then I would find another RCIA class to attend.
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And in case the priest doesn’t address this issue, the bishop needs to hear about it.
 
It’s probably a little bit of both. You should probably look into the modernist movement within the Church and you’ll start to see the progressive agenda for what is. The worst part is just how much damage it has caused will also become apparent.

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Calmly and assertively tell your pastor about what is happening in RCIA. There is a good chance that somebody else in the parish will be willing to take their place, and if not, it is better for there to be a shortage of catechists than to have somebody inflicting harm on others. Where violations of sexual morality and ultimately against the family is concerned, the most grievous victims are vulnerable children. When we insult the family, we insult the Trinity. We insult community. We insult brotherhood. We insult charity.

Don’t let it make you despair. Libertine theology is its own worst enemy. When people flip the moral universe upsidedown and start changing morality in order to conform to culture instead of changing culture in order to conform to morality, the institution dies because people rightly ask “Why bother?” What can such theology offer that secular institutions cannot offer? Libertine theology makes itself obsolete. Conformists churches no longer have the potency to sustain their membership, because there is increasingly no struggle. There is no discipline. There is no austere cry towards growth of spirit and character. It is mankind’s destiny to grow towards God in the same way a tree grows towards the sun. It is precisely in this struggle that one finds joy.

What does this mean for the Catholic Church? The Catholic Church can be wounded, but it is impossible for it to be destroyed. There has always been enemies on the inside. Even when the clergy of the Church was constituted of 12 men it was not without its wolf. Don’t be surprised when you see Christians do what is wrong. Just keep going. The Church might lose one field, but somewhere else in the world, it gains one. This is why I love reading about Church history, because when I read it, I see, “WOW. The world was so messed up.” When I read her history, I regain the confidence that, yep, Jesus has got this. In history, there is no man, no woman, no teacher, no professor, no priest, or even any Pope that can do anything to change that. We once had a Pope whose first words as Pope were reported to be “I am Pope! I am Pope!” If the Church can survive that, it can survive some uncharitable catechists.😃 Peace.
 
Dorothy said:
And in case the priest doesn’t address this issue, the bishop needs to hear about it.
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I might normally agree but someone that is in RCIA is probably not going to get to the bishop and heard. It would be better for someone coming in the faith to look at another program and parish that is truer to the Catholic faith.
 
To clarify the situation, this class had three teachers. All of them were kind, but so…doing their own thing. It was kind of a pointless class, but it was pretty much a formality for me so I was ‘safe.’ Anyhow the man who said this was kind of the definition of ‘dirty old man,’ but without being scary. It became clear that he just fed his physical senses (ate tons of pastries, drank lots of wine, lusted after women) and this was his weakness. One person was asking if premarital sex was okay, the answer from him (and backed up by the other two) was yes. The next week the person who asked brought his girlfriend to mass since she was visiting from out of town. I was so embarrassed for her…her boyfriend didn’t have much sense or respect for her.

This parish had a lot of nice people, but it was a whacky crew and the poor priest was coming from a different culture and he was completely pushed around. It was hard to watch. He’s since been assigned back to his home country. I haven’t been there in years, but I hope the new priest can be more effective at leading.

I understand we live in a fallen world and nothing is going to be right here. I just noticed changes and was curious about it. You all have helped me understand-- thank you. And even though sometimes I’m surprised, it doesn’t mean that I’m judging anyone. Even if it’s not the greatest, I don’t know what’s going on with that person so unless it’s obvious disrespect, I don’t get huffy. But I do have eyes in my head and when I see something I haven’t seen before, I’m surprised and curious.
 
lola5555 said:
To clarify the situation, this class had three teachers. All of them were kind, but so…doing their own thing. It was kind of a pointless class, but it was pretty much a formality for me so I was ‘safe.’ Anyhow the man who said this was kind of the definition of ‘dirty old man,’ but without being scary. It became clear that he just fed his physical senses (ate tons of pastries, drank lots of wine, lusted after women) and this was his weakness. One person was asking if premarital sex was okay, the answer from him (and backed up by the other two) was yes. The next week the person who asked brought his girlfriend to mass since she was visiting from out of town. I was so embarrassed for her…her boyfriend didn’t have much sense or respect for her.

This parish had a lot of nice people, but it was a whacky crew and the poor priest was coming from a different culture and he was completely pushed around. It was hard to watch. He’s since been assigned back to his home country. I haven’t been there in years, but I hope the new priest can be more effective at leading.

I understand we live in a fallen world and nothing is going to be right here. I just noticed changes and was curious about it. You all have helped me understand-- thank you. And even though sometimes I’m surprised, it doesn’t mean that I’m judging anyone. Even if it’s not the greatest, I don’t know what’s going on with that person so unless it’s obvious disrespect, I don’t get huffy. But I do have eyes in my head and when I see something I haven’t seen before, I’m surprised and curious.
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All I know is that,we must keep our faith strong in is difficult times,and pray for those that have fallen away from loving God.Pray is the strongest weaption we have especial now,we all have too be ready for the coming of Jesus. Also we have the Rosary to help us,Our lady will always come to our aid,and take our prays too her son Jesus. Amen.
 
We always go to a TLM for Mass. So the chances of being exposed to that sort of teaching is next to zero. Between the FSSP and Fr. Baker, things run pretty traditional.
 
johnthebaptist2 said:
No matter, what, thier will be many follows to the Catholic Regilion,for us that are true to are faith,nothinging can change us.We are their to take part in the Mass.
Yes, I have seen people coming dress in shorts,jeans, alter tops,low cut dresses,I also seen people not kneeling before entering the pew. But what counts, is the fact,are they their to take part in the Mass,or are they because they know that if they don,t go, it,is a mortal sin. I know, it,s wrong to wear things I see people do,but we are not to judge others, Jesus will, judges us in the end. So worry about your salavation,that of you Soul. If we Love Jesus, than we have nothinging to fear,for Jesus ,Father Loves,all that come and pray to his son,and receives the Host, of his body and Blood. Amen :heaven:
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I completely disagree with you on two points.

The idea that the way people dress for Mass is not important is wrong. Dressing in the manner you cite above is disrespectful. I ask those who think casual dress (i.e. Shorts, tee-shirts, flip flops, beach wear etc.) is OK for Mass, would it be OK if someone came to your wedding dressed this way?

The idea we shouldn’t judge others actions is also wrong. We as Catholics are called to judge others actions and correct them when their actions conflict with the one True Faith. Correcting the sinner is one of the Spiritual works of Mercy. What we are not to do is judge the state of another’s soul. It is wrong to say or think someone is going to Hell. It is OK to say that if some persists in their sinful behavior they jeopardize their salvation.

So please, no more of this we’re not to judge.
 
SJMink said:
I completely disagree with you on two points.

The idea that the way people dress for Mass is not important is wrong. Dressing in the manner you cite above is disrespectful. I ask those who think casual dress (i.e. Shorts, tee-shirts, flip flops, beach wear etc.) is OK for Mass, would it be OK if someone came to your wedding dressed this way?

The idea we shouldn’t judge others actions is also wrong. We as Catholics are called to judge others actions and correct them when their actions conflict with the one True Faith. Correcting the sinner is one of the Spiritual works of Mercy. What we are not to do is judge the state of another’s soul. It is wrong to say or think someone is going to Hell. It is OK to say that if some persists in their sinful behavior they jeopardize their salvation.

So please, no more of this we’re not to judge.
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Are you suggesting then that if a homeless person who was pretty shabbily and maybe dirty dressed came into Mass you think they should be turned out??
 
thistle said:
Are you suggesting then that if a homeless person who was pretty shabbily and maybe dirty dressed came into Mass you think they should be turned out??
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I,am glad that some else agrees with me on how people should dress while in Church. People should remember we are in the Present of Jesus,who is at the tabernacle on the Alter,we should show all respect too Jesus,in his House of Worship. Amen
:harp:
 
I agree with SJMink. Having said that, there is the case of the person who is truly poor and has no decent clothes. Should he/she attend Mass? Certainly. Just because your clothes are worn and maybe even shabby does not mean that you are forbidden. But you should be clean as possible. It is Christ that you are presenting yourself to. So do your best and ignore those who look down their noses.
 
SJMink said:
The idea that the way people dress for Mass is not important is wrong. Dressing in the manner you cite above is disrespectful. *** I ask those who think casual dress (i.e. Shorts, tee-shirts, flip flops, beach wear etc.) is OK for Mass, would it be OK if someone came to your wedding dressed this way?***
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thistle said:
Are you suggesting then that if a homeless person who was pretty shabbily and maybe dirty dressed came into Mass you think they should be turned out??
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I don’t think you can make that correlation. The quote above clearly asks if you think shorts, tee-shirts, flip flops, beach wear etc. are appropriate for Mass. Not how a homeless person or poor person dresses. And with regards to the bolded in the above post, I would argue that no, this is not appropriate attire for Mass.
Peace, Mark***
 
lola5555 said:
In the last five years or so, I keep seeing behaviors and reading things that give me small shocks. For example, people wearing flips-flops, short-shorts, and tank tops to mass. I’ve read about Catholic people (even clergy) getting angry when others simply hold to teachings of the Church. I was in an RCIA class when I heard a teacher teach that God is okay with premarital sex and He doesn’t mind if we ‘enjoy each others bodies.’ These are just a few small examples and it has been some random things like these.

I’m not that old, but I started to wonder if Christians in the US have changed a lot recently. Then I wondered if I’m noticing these things because I’ve been around more Catholics recently. Although I’ve always been Catholic, growing up in the 80s and 90s, I mostly hung out with Protestants because I went to an LCMS grammar school and a non-denominational high school. In these environments the culture was conservatively Christian. Although at our Catholic Church, the culture was just as conservative. So I don’t know…any insights?
Click to expand...
Please read number 4 here

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