Is it a liturgical abuse to have a Rock 'n Roll band in the Church sanctuary?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Marialis_Cultus
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Marialis_Cultus

Guest
Is it a liturgical abuse to have a Rock 'n Roll band in the Church sanctuary?

I recently attended a Confirmation Mass where I was quite surprised or rather shocked to see a Rock & Roll band in the Church sanctuary, only a few feet away from the Altar. Is having a band in the church sanctuary a liturgical abuse? I like Rock n’ Roll music I just don’t think I care for it in church. I found that the loud drums and guitars really distracted me from prayer especially during reception of Communion. I think I read somewhere that Catholic churches are supposed to have the choir and musicians in a choir loft if they have one. This particular church has a choir loft but they weren’t using it that day.
 
Just for Clarification the Rock 'n Roll band is part of the music ministry at this church it wasn’t some hired rock band.
 
If you have voted yes please explain why it is a liturgical abuse. Are there any documentation on why this a liturgical abuse? Which is the liturgical abuse: a) having the Rock 'n Roll band in church or b) having it in the sanctuary?
 
Well lets compare the two “sanctuary” and “rock & roll”. Isnt this an oxymoron? Sacred and degeneracy in the same sentence.
 
**
from Cardinal Ratzinger On Liturgical Music

In light of the foregoing discussion, both “pop” music and the music of elitist aesthetes are unsuitable for divine worship. The latter, proclaiming art to be “for art’s sake” and for no other purpose, elevates the composer to the level of a “pure creator.” “According to Christian faith, however, it belongs to the essence of human beings that they come from God’s ‘art’ . . . and as perceivers can think and view God’s creative ideas with him and translate them into the visible and the audible” (106).

On the other hand, hasn’t the Church’s liturgical music always drawn on popular music to renew itself? Isn’t “pop” music just what the Church needs in order to “relate” with contemporary culture? Cardinal Ratzinger recommends “treading carefully” in this area (107-108). In the past folk music was the expression of a clearly defined community held together by language, history and a way of life. Springing from fundamental human experience, it conveyed a truth, however naive the form may have been. Pop music, in contrast, is a standardized product of mass society, a function of supply and demand. The 20th-century composer Paul Hindemith called the constant presence of such noise “brainwashing,” and C. M. Johansson claims that hearing it gradually makes us incapable of listening attentively: “we become musically comatose . . . This medium kills the message” (p. 108 cf. footnote 19). Cardinal Ratzinger insists that the faith must not be trivialized in the name of inculturating it. Today we do not have to limit church music so strictly to chanting of the psalms, because we have “an infinitely larger trove” of good liturgical music to draw on. But to hold the line against the onslaught of misguided attempts to import “modern” musical forms into the liturgy requires “the courage of asceticism, the courage to contradict. Only from such courage can new creativity arise” (109).

catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=4041

**
 
Marialis Cultus:
Are there any documentation on why this a liturgical abuse? Which is the liturgical abuse: a) having the Rock 'n Roll band in church or b) having it in the sanctuary?
Click to expand...
You mean in the SANCTUARY, not just the nave? If so, my understanding is that the muscians should not be in the sanctuary except the cantor when proclaiming the psalm. So yes, that would be a violation of the norms. (I’m looking for the reference, but haven’t found it yet)

As far as Rock 'n Roll, I’m struggling with that at our parish. We have a praise & worship band, not really rock and roll to most people’s eyes. But many of the songs they sing just don’t seem to be reverant enough to be at the foot of the cross. Great for praise & worship songs out side the mass, but within it . . . I don’t know. And of course the people in it have such heart for the music and praising God through the music.

I think Fr doesn’t want to hurt them, plus he feels like it reaches the young people better. But I’ve seen young people turned on by Gregorian chant, plain chant, Taize etc too. Why risk desecrating the mass when something more sacred would accomplish the same end goals?

I do think that if Fr. set limits and educated them in charity, they would be open to receiving instruction that would enable them to more faithfully participate in the mass without risking a loss of the sacred. Its very depressing, since this should be the thing we are willing to GO TO BAT for, the sacred celebration of the mass.
 
Whenever the choir also includes women, it should be placed outside the sanctuary (presbyterium). * INSTRUCTION ON MUSIC IN THE LITURGY, Sacred Congregation of Rites, 5 March, 1967*
Click to expand...
So if there were any women in the band . . .

Another note, I’ve recently been chastised for throwing the term liturgical abuse around too freely. I thought anything violating the GIRM or rubrics would be a liturgical abuse, my priest feels that term should be reserved for serious violations that threaten the validity of the sacrament. Any thoughts?
 
40.png
ames61:
You mean in the SANCTUARY, not just the nave? If so, my understanding is that the muscians should not be in the sanctuary except the cantor when proclaiming the psalm. So yes, that would be a violation of the norms. (I’m looking for the reference, but haven’t found it yet)
Click to expand...
The band was in the sanctuary not in the nave. The band consisted of a grand piano, drum set which was facing the altar and two or three guitars. Two or three cantors lead the congregation.
 
40.png
ames61:
So if there were any women in the band . . .

Another note, I’ve recently been chastised for throwing the term liturgical abuse around too freely. I thought anything violating the GIRM or rubrics would be a liturgical abuse, my priest feels that term should be reserved for serious violations that threaten the validity of the sacrament. Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
This is also my understanding of liturgical abuse.
 
40.png
ames61:
So if there were any women in the band . . .
Click to expand...
One of the cantors was a woman does she count as part of the band? She was with them.
 
The sanctuary is for the consecration of the Eucharist. It should be kept clear of all else. This would include any musical group, performer, etc.

Note that the commentator and the cantor, except when leading the Responsorial Psalm, are not supposed to use the ambo. They should have a separate podium apart from the sanctuary. Unfortunately this rule is frequently/usually violated.

Note that even in a three ring circus, the center ring is reserved for the main event. 😉
 
Joe Kelley:
The sanctuary is for the consecration of the Eucharist. It should be kept clear of all else. This would include any musical group, performer, etc.

Note that the commentator and the cantor, except when leading the Responsorial Psalm, are not supposed to use the ambo. They should have a separate podium apart from the sanctuary. Unfortunately this rule is frequently/usually violated.

Note that even in a three ring circus, the center ring is reserved for the main event. 😉
Click to expand...
I agree with you in theory, but I couldn’t find the GIRM or document which states that, other than the one which states that if the choir has women in it, it should not be in the sanctuary.

The same would go with EMHC not trespassing into the sanctuary until after the priest has received communion, also frequently violated.
 
The choir area of our church is off to one side of the sanctuary. Since there is no physical division, one could say it’s “in” the sanctuary, but that’s not really the case. There is an organ, also a piano, and for at least one of the weekend Masses a youth group plays; they have several guitars and drums, so maybe that could be classified as “rock.” The youth group director also serves as cantor for that Mass. The music is different but not irreverent, and I’ve never heard anyone in the congregation complain.
 
:mad:
This is just another horror to add to my list of bad Confirmation stories.

A rock and roll band in church for music is bad enough but did they need to do it for the Sacrament of Confirmation?

Sick Sick Sick
 
There are several issues here:

One is a question of “what”: What instruments are played, what songs are played?

The other is a question of “how”: How are those instruments played, and how are the songs played? This addresses style.

The two are not the same. One can play classical music with pianos, drums and guitars. One can also play rock 'n roll with an organ.
 
Ask yourself what is the end or goal of the Mass. Then ask yourself if having a Rock 'n Roll band in the sanctuary assists in the attainment of that goal. If it doesn’t it is an abuse.

The problem all too often is that people can’t agree on what the goal or end of the Mass is and should be. It wasn’t hard to figure out 40 years ago. Almost no one would appreciate seeing Elvis shimmying about in a Roman Collar wearing a green sequined sack like chasuble. It’s hard to say how popular that would be today because of the confusion that certain geniuses have allowed to reign in the Church during that period.

Perhaps the Pope will just have to tell us how everyone is going to offer Mass and exactly what instruments are okay and then confirm that instruction with his own good example. I have great hopes for this new Pope who is universally admired as a man of good taste and discretion.
 
I believe so…I feel that the only music should be done by angelic sounding choirs…organs, pianos, etc…but now guitars, turn tables, drums, or any other instruments.
 
40.png
benedictusoblat:
Ask yourself what is the end or goal of the Mass. Then ask yourself if having a Rock 'n Roll band in the sanctuary assists in the attainment of that goal. If it doesn’t it is an abuse.
Click to expand...
I guess I look at most of the music and think, would this be appropriate at the foot of the cross at calvary? (which is where we are during mass, right?) Would it be appropriate in the upper room during the last supper? At the empty tomb?

Even the music which doesn’t offend musically, seems so “me” oriented. If I treated a guest with the kind of conversation these lyrics offered, (all about me) I’d be seen as a bore. I’ve heard complaints that modern music is too horizonal, not vertical, but much of this stuff isn’t even horizontal. It’s a tiny p(name removed by moderator)rick of my own individual holiness (or attempts at) without regard to the God from which it came or the people with whom I am to share this with.

amy
 
C’mon people, the Rock and Roll era and the majority of that genre is very evil, and not to mention conventional, The Church is timeless, get it out! the drums the guitar, the piano. Only thing that should be included in the choir ministry, is a pipe organ and voices.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top