Is it a mortal sin if you have to ask?

KaneKatholic · Oct 15, 2011

for example, just recently I got into a fight with a sibling fully caused by me… I (due to pride) continued to pester them causing them to get anrier and angrier but because I guess I was trying to either redeem the whole situation I continued… They began to yell and swear… they are not like me swearing comes naturally to them Im trying to get them to stop but thats beside the point ] any way it ended badly and strikes were exchanged… I feel guilty about the whole thing (Im scrupulous…) so KK’s question is concerning this situation and others like it Is it mortal sin if you have to ask or if you committing the said act you knew that it could possibly be grave matter is that under the umbrella of full knowledge or???
thanx
-KK

Monica4316 · Oct 16, 2011

If you knew something is grave matter and still chose to do it, that’s a mortal sin.

If you didn’t know, - then I guess it depends on whether your ignorance was your fault or not… for example: if I feel that something might be wrong, but don’t ask in advance to find out, because I really don’t want it to be wrong, - then it’s my fault that I don’t know and I’m not truly ignorant, because my conscience suggested the answer to me.

I am not able to answer the question regarding your situation… I think it’s best to just mention it in Confession and ask the priest.

God bless

ANNE_2 · Oct 16, 2011

In Confession talk to your Priest about your particular situation as to whether your sin is mortal or venial.

CCC - " 1801 Conscience can remain in ignorance or make erroneous judgments. Such ignorance and errors are not always free of guilt."

CCC - " 1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility.
This is the case when a man “takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin.”
In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits. "

The best way to educate oneself is to read from cover to cover the “Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition”.
(First published in the USA in March, 2000; has a dark green cover; contains all the Church’s teachings regarding Faith and Morals.)

white_sheep · Oct 16, 2011

I would think so. People get too tied up in this 3 criteria bit that is really more geared to academics and theologians. You knew it was wrong and you are going to have a hard time convincing anyone otherwise. Some people take this 3 criteria bit to the extreme that you have to(this is hyperbolic) sit down and write a contract with the devil that you understand the 3 criteria and how they apply to what you are about to do and sign off on it(metaphorically speaking, of course) before it is a mortal sin.

I take the simpler and more old fashioned approach of you did something wrong, it counts, confess it. Don’t microanalyze.

Blossoming · Oct 16, 2011

Unless you murdered her it’s probably venial. It would be something like, ‘I goaded my sister into a fight and now I’m remorseful.’. You can throw it in with truly mortal sins if you ever commit one, like murder or adultery, or you can just catch confession before Mass next week and go ahead and confess that venial (and other venial) sins then, or you can wait until Easter.

white_sheep · Oct 16, 2011

I disagree and think that by the time you come to blows it is already a mortal sin, even if you don’t murder someone.

Blossoming · Oct 16, 2011

white_sheep said:
I disagree and think that by the time you come to blows it is already a mortal sin, even if you don’t murder someone.

We are not going to agree and this isn’t what I get from the CCC or what I was taught ever in the Church.

Having a fight with your sister isn’t mortal, imo. If every tiny thing millions of people do everyday were mortal, no one would make it to Heaven. I have seen expressed on this board that zen gardens are mortal, doing yoga is mortal, getting a tattoo is mortal, dieting is mortal. None of that is true and I don’t know whether it is misunderstanding by Catholics or simply assumptions or parodying/trolling by non-Catholics. I dislike seeing people mislead on doctrine and while I am no expert I am certainly a Catholic with an opinion.

Unless you think a short fight viewed later with remorse and after apologies will lead to full blown premeditated murder, I don’t see how it is mortal.

But of course you are most welcome to your opinion.

white_sheep · Oct 16, 2011

Blossoming said:
We are not going to agree and this isn’t what I get from the CCC or what I was taught ever in the Church.

Having a fight with your sister isn’t mortal, imo. If every tiny thing millions of people do everyday were mortal, no one would make it to Heaven. I have seen expressed on this board that zen gardens are mortal, doing yoga is mortal, getting a tattoo is mortal, dieting is mortal. None of that is true and I don’t know whether it is misunderstanding by Catholics or simply assumptions or parodying/trolling by non-Catholics. I dislike seeing people mislead on doctrine and while I am no expert I am certainly a Catholic with an opinion.

Unless you think a short fight viewed later with remorse and after apologies will lead to full blown premeditated murder, I don’t see how it is mortal.

But of course you are most welcome to your opinion.

Of course I was answering from my own prudential judgement before.

So I tried to look it up and see which way it goes. I found this in the Summa by St. Thomas.

While contention implies a contradiction of words, strife denotes a certain contradiction of deeds. Wherefore a gloss on Galatians 5:20 says that “strifes are when persons strike one another through anger.” Hence strife is a kind of private war, because it takes place between private persons, being declared not by public authority, but rather by an inordinate will. Therefore strife is always sinful. On fact it is a mortal sin in the man who attacks another unjustly, for it is not without mortal sin that one inflicts harm on another even if the deed be done by the hands.

I would think that what Kane wrote in the OP meets all the qualifications of what St. Thomas says is a mortal sin in this regard.

Blossoming · Oct 16, 2011

If her sister hit her first, I don’t think it meets the qualification for unjust, although your quote might make her sister be in a state of mortal sin.

Personally it sounds like scrupulosity to me. If it’s over, mutually apologized for and forgiven between the two of them, I still think it’s venial unless she premeditatively plotted for weeks to figure out a way to make her sister hit her first to create a situation where she could hit her back and get away with it, with malicious intent.

ANNE_2 · Oct 17, 2011

The OP should read the CCC, and go to Confession.
While at Confession he should ask his Priest, if he has any questions - not us.

His eternity may depend upon it.

The_Blunt_Brig · Mar 16, 2013

Here’s a list of everything that the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which was called “a sure norm for teaching the faith” by Pope John Paul II for scrupulous people so they know when they actually are right. These might not be all the mortal sins there are but at least you know you’re right not to do these no matter if a priest says masturbation is not a grave sin or something:

Grave matter according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (Reference Numbers 2272, 2480, 2380, 2148, 2434, 2181, 2117, 2384 to 2386, 2290 & 2291, 2539, 2277, 2302, 2152 & 2476, 2353, 2303, 2357, 2388, 2482, 2352, 2268, 2163, 2354, 2355, 2356, 2439, 2120, 2284, 2281, 2297, 2413 & 2434, 2268, 2400, 2434):

Abortion (any formal cooperation in it)

Code:

Acceptance by human society of murderous famines without trying to fix it

Code:

Adulation of another's grave faults if it makes one an accomplice in another's vices or grave sins, but it is not grave when it only seeks to be agreeable, to avoid evil, to meet a need, or to obtain legitimate advantages.

Code:
```
Adultery
```
Code:
```
Blasphemy
```

Code:

Deliberate failure to go to mass on Holy Days of Obligation unless excused for a serious reason or dispensed by one's own pastor

Code:
```
Divination, magic, and sorcery
```

Code:

Divorce (If civil divorce, which cannot do anything to the spiritual marriage in the eyes of God, remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the protection of inheritance, or the care of the children it is not a sin.)

Code:
```
Drug Abuse
```

Code:

Endangering their own and others' safety by drunkenness or a love of speed on the road, at sea or in the air

Code:

Envy (if to the level of wishing grave harm to another)

Code:
```
Euthanasia
```

Code:

Extreme Anger (at the level of truly and deliberately desiring to seriously hurt or kill someone)

Code:
```
Fornication
```

Code:

Hatred of a neighbor/to deliberately desire him or her great harm

Code:
```
Homosexual acts
```
Code:
```
Incest
```

Code:

Lying (the gravity is measured by "the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims")

Code:
```
Masturbation
```

Code:

Murder (except when done in self defense or defense of others when there is no other way)

Code:
```
Perjury and False Oaths
```
Code:
```
Polygamy
```
Code:
```
Pornography
```
Code:
```
Prostitution
```
Code:
```
Rape
```

Code:

Rich nation's refusal to aid those which are unable to ensure the means of their development by themselves

Code:
```
Sacrilege
```

Code:

Scandal (deliberately causing someone to sin gravely)

Code:
```
Suicide
```

Code:

Terrorism that threatens, wounds and kills indiscriminately

Code:

Unfair wagers and cheating at games unless the damage is unusually light

Is it a mortal sin if you have to ask?

KaneKatholic

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Monica4316

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ANNE_2

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white_sheep

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Blossoming

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white_sheep

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Blossoming

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white_sheep

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Blossoming

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ANNE_2

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The_Blunt_Brig

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