Is it a mortal sin to choose against your conscience per se?

[fakename]

Is it a mortal sin to choose something against your conscience?

 

[broconsul]

Only if your conscience is well formed, the situation regards a grave matter, and you consent completely to the decision.

 

[Pug]

Is it a mortal sin to choose something against your conscience?

Assuming you mean what I think you mean, no, it does not have to be a mortal sin. People do little things that they know are wrong all the time. They are called venial sins if they are little, even if you knew it was wrong at the time, and you deliberately ignored that it was wrong. A big key here is it has to be little.

 

[seanflynn]

Not necessarily is the answer. Let me explain.

All mortal sins include objectively grave matter. That is, they constitute a direct violaton of one of the Ten Commandments. Your conscience could tell you to avoid things that have nothing to do with grave matter, so the choice could not be a mortal sin (though possibly venial) no matter who did it or what their conscience says.

Another possibility is that you are overly scrupulous, and you think things that aren’t actually sins are. If you do them anyway against your too-harsh conscience out of “weakness,” then I still think they are not sins.

 

[baltobetsy]

Is it a mortal sin to choose something against your conscience?

That’s any sin, mortal or venial.

 

[fakename]

But is acting contrary to the conscience itself a grave matter? It seems to be so since the reason (whether bad or good) is supposed to be the transmitter of God’s will on earth.

So by analogy, if the soldier disobeys an order he thinks comes from a general, (but is really issued by someone else) he is sinning because he goes against his own intellectual honesty.

 

[Newbie2]

But is acting contrary to the conscience itself a grave matter? It seems to be so since the reason (whether bad or good) is supposed to be the transmitter of God’s will on earth.

So by analogy, if the soldier disobeys an order he thinks comes from a general, (but is really issued by someone else) he is sinning because he goes against his own intellectual honesty.

Intellectual honesty is not the same as conscience.

 

[AnneTeresa]

All mortal sins include objectively grave matter. That is, they constitute a direct violaton of one of the Ten Commandments. Y

This is a little off topic, but what sin is NOT against the Ten Commandments? Isn’t that what sin is?

 

[Pug]

But is acting contrary to the conscience itself a grave matter? It seems to be so since the reason (whether bad or good) is supposed to be the transmitter of God’s will on earth.

So by analogy, if the soldier disobeys an order he thinks comes from a general, (but is really issued by someone else) he is sinning because he goes against his own intellectual honesty.

Your question is not unexpected. The hard part for many people when considering mortal and venial sin is to accept that indeed there are some knowingly done sins which are not mortal. From a practical standpoint, I suggest you listen to your conscience, and respect it at all times, whether the matter is grave or light. Never violate it, and take the time to properly instruct it in knowing right from wrong. This is the right way. Doing otherwise will weaken you, slowly leaving you unfit for battle.

It remains a point of Catholic teaching, though, that there is a distinction between sins, some cut off life within us, others don’t. Knowing the thing is a sin is not the distinguishing factor. If your conscience is strong and well-tended, it can loudly protest small sins. Be aware, though, sometimes it is pride that is protesting, not wishing to admit our weakness in the matter at hand.

Using your analogy of a general and a foot soldier, if you are out past curfew, you will get sent on a 10 mile run. If you disobey the call to charge, you are going to get shot. The general views the two offenses in a different light. One is treated in a remedial fashion, the other isn’t.

 

[Bookcat]

Not necessarily is the answer. Let me explain.

All mortal sins include objectively grave matter. That is, they constitute a direct violaton of one of the Ten Commandments. Your conscience could tell you to avoid things that have nothing to do with grave matter, so the choice could not be a mortal sin (though possibly venial) no matter who did it or what their conscience says. .

This is simply not the case.

A person with a conscience in error CAN very well commit a mortal sin. Even though the matter itself was* objectively* not grave. One example – if their conscience judges that it is grave and with full knowledge they give complete consent…well that can be a mortal sin. For they are willing thus to do a mortal sin…to do the thing their conscience says wrongly is a grave matter.

Now those who are scrupulous or have some degree of difficulty with scruples …should not get bent out of shape by this…for they should listen to their confessor and follow the principles given to them…this becomes key in their conscience…they then know that they have this difficulty and by following such are acting contrary to their “fear” and scruples not their conscience (which has been informed by their confessor etc)…

As to the original persons question…if they are in the same boat as my second paragraph…then they need to speak with their confessor etc.

If not…then yes one can sin by acting against ones conscience …as to if it is “mortal” that would depend on if it is grave matter, full knowledge and complete consent…

Though they should distinguish between matters of counsel …as to what is better etc …or imperfection…etc …for their “conscience” can urge to do some good…but it is not necessarily a sin to not do it…but of course let us seek to follow Christ with great love etc.

Other question:

Quote:

But is acting contrary to the conscience itself a grave matter?

No.

It can be grave or venial…

And for mortal sin (grave sin) you need all three aspects:

Compendium of the Catechism:

1. When does one commit a mortal sin?

1855-1861
1874

One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.

1. When does one commit a venial sin?

1862-1864
1875

One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.

vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

 

[Bookcat]

But is acting contrary to the conscience itself a grave matter?

No.

It can be grave or venial…

Compendium of the Catechism

1. When does one commit a mortal sin?

1855-1861
1874

One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.

1. When does one commit a venial sin?

1862-1864
1875

One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.

 

[puzzleannie]

Is it a mortal sin to choose something against your conscience?

if your conscience is well-formed by and coincides with God’s law and Church teaching, then going against your conscience in a grave matter would indeed be grave sin. If your conscience (i.e. personal preference + excuses) is contrary to God’s law and church doctrine, then it could be a grave sin to follow your conscience of the matter is grave.

 

[Bookcat]

Opps sorry…wrong names:

View Post
Not necessarily is the answer. Let me explain.

All mortal sins include objectively grave matter. That is, they constitute a direct violaton of one of the Ten Commandments. Your conscience could tell you to avoid things that have nothing to do with grave matter, so the choice could not be a mortal sin (though possibly venial) no matter who did it or what their conscience says. .

This is simply not the case.

A person with a conscience in error CAN very well commit a mortal sin. Even though the matter itself was objectively not grave. One example – if their conscience judges that it is grave and with full knowledge they give complete consent…well that can be a mortal sin. For they are willing thus to do a mortal sin…to do the thing their conscience says wrongly is a grave matter.

Now those who are scrupulous or have some degree of difficulty with scruples …should not get bent out of shape by this…for they should listen to their confessor and follow the principles given to them…this becomes key in their conscience…they then know that they have this difficulty and by following such are acting contrary to their “fear” and scruples not their conscience (which has been informed by their confessor etc)…

As to the original persons question…if they are in the same boat as my second paragraph…then they need to speak with their confessor etc.

If not…then yes one can sin by acting against ones conscience …as to if it is “mortal” that would depend on if it is grave matter, full knowledge and complete consent…

Though they should distinguish between matters of counsel …as to what is better etc …or imperfection…etc …for their “conscience” can urge to do some good…but it is not necessarily a sin to not do it…but of course let us seek to follow Christ with great love etc.

Other question:

But is acting contrary to the conscience **itself **a grave matter?

**
No.**

It can be grave or venial…

And for mortal sin (grave sin) you need all three aspects:

Compendium of the Catechism:

1. When does one commit a mortal sin?

1855-1861
1874

One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.

1. When does one commit a venial sin?

1862-1864
1875

One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.

 

[Rocks_91]

I would say it is a grave sin to do something your conscience strongly forbids you to. The ‘Catechism for Catholics’ by Monsignor Michael Tynan states that our conscience takes precedence even when judging something the Church or the Pope teaches. Our conscience was given to us for a reason. Though we should take care not to be deceived by our own evil desires.

 

[puzzleannie]

I would say it is a grave sin to do something your conscience strongly forbids you to. The ‘Catechism for Catholics’ by Monsignor Michael Tynan states that our conscience takes precedence even when judging something the Church or the Pope teaches. Our conscience was given to us for a reason. Though we should take care not to be deceived by our own evil desires.

not having seen the work in question, if the good priest is advocating committing a deliberate sin on “conscience” grounds he teaches in error. for instance in my generation it has sadly been very common to get such counsel, even from a priest in confession, that one might continue to use ABC based on one’s “conscience” and this is clearly just plain wrong, and the priests who give such counsel, jeopardizing our immortal souls, is going to be held accountable.

 

[Bookcat]

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a6.htm

 

[seanflynn]

Bookcat,

One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent.

You have yet to convince me that “grave matter” is in any way dependent on the sinner. I can only see it as being dependent on the sin itself. Murder is evil, adultery is evil, and both are gravely so, without regard for the state of the murderer or the adulterer, right? How can a sinner’s state of conscience change the matter of the sin?

Stipulating that it could happen, I suggest that the person with the improperly formed conscience does not have full knowledge. Full knowledge would include knowledge of the sin’s graveness, would it not? “Knowing” something that isn’t true, like that it’s a grave sin to eat meat on fridays in ordinary time or something, is absolutely incomplete knowledge. So in this case, it can not be a mortal sin, even if your conscience turns the matter grave, because the sinner doesn’t have full knowledge, by definition.

Feel free to argue some more. It is possible you will open my mind to the truth if I am in error.

 

[Bookcat]

Bookcat,

You have yet to convince me that “grave matter” is in any way dependent on the sinner. I can only see it as being dependent on the sin itself. Murder is evil, adultery is evil, and both are gravely so, without regard for the state of the murderer or the adulterer, right? How can a sinner’s state of conscience change the matter of the sin?

Stipulating that it could happen, I suggest that the person with the improperly formed conscience does not have full knowledge. Full knowledge would include knowledge of the sin’s graveness, would it not? “Knowing” something that isn’t true, like that it’s a grave sin to eat meat on fridays in ordinary time or something, is absolutely incomplete knowledge. So in this case, it can not be a mortal sin, even if your conscience turns the matter grave, because the sinner doesn’t have full knowledge, by definition.

Feel free to argue some more. It is possible you will open my mind to the truth if I am in error.

What I wrote is simply the case…(as one will find in works of Catholic moral theology )

One can look at it from different angles but it is true that if person believes something is a grave matter …and with full knowledge does it will full consent…such can be a mortal sin all things being equal.

A person with an erroneous conscience or improperly formed conscience can commit a mortal sin. You misunderstand full knowledge here. The person in question “knows fully that the thing is grave…even though they are in error” (another term used to explain this “sufficient reflection”…)

If a person during Lent who believes it is Friday and who believes that to eat a hamburger is a grave matter (actually one could argue if one such act would be grave -see Jimmy Akin on this and Pope Paul VI) and knowing this…realizing this fully…they go ahead and deliberately eat it …they commit a mortal sin even though he later finds out it was Thursday or a Solemnity.

One way of explaining it is they are “willing to do what they think is grave matter” and such is grave matter!

Again I it is important to note:

Now those who are scrupulous or have some degree of difficulty with scruples …should not get bent out of shape by this…for they should listen to their confessor and follow the principles given to them…this becomes key in their conscience…they then know that they have this difficulty and by following such are acting contrary to their “fear” and scruples not their conscience (which has been informed by their confessor etc)…

 

[Pug]

if your conscience is well-formed by and coincides with God’s law and Church teaching, then going against your conscience in a grave matter would indeed be grave sin. If your conscience (i.e. personal preference + excuses) is contrary to God’s law and church doctrine, then it could be a grave sin to follow your conscience of the matter is grave.

The point about what a person is calling “conscience” matters. If one is calling their personal preference and emotional fears to be “conscience”, it is not a sin to violate it. But that is not conscience.