Is it a mortal sin to disagree with the Church?

[Kathryn_0404]

I hope I explain this clearly…

Sometimes I get so frustrated and annoyed with the rules of the Church. I don’t like the ‘no birth control’ rule; there are Sundays that I REALLY don’t want to go to mass; no meat on Fridays during Lent annoys me…

With that said…there is **NO **way on Earth I would use B.C., miss mass (unless reeeeeeally bad sick), or eat meat on Fridays during Lent. I believe with my whole heart in the authority of the Holy Catholic Church.

What I’d like to know is if I follow the rules of the Church to the “T”, but am frustrated or annoyed with the rules (don’t like them) is that a mortal or venial sin? Or no sin at all?

Please no ‘flames’…this is a really tough subject for me…

 

[Tom]

I hope I explain this clearly…

Sometimes I get so frustrated and annoyed with the rules of the Church. I don’t like the ‘no birth control’ rule; there are Sundays that I REALLY don’t want to go to mass; no meat on Fridays during Lent annoys me…

With that said…there is **NO **way on Earth I would use B.C., miss mass (unless reeeeeeally bad sick), or eat meat on Fridays during Lent. I believe with my whole heart in the authority of the Holy Catholic Church.

What I’d like to know is if I follow the rules of the Church to the “T”, but am frustrated or annoyed with the rules (don’t like them) is that a mortal or venial sin? Or no sin at all?

Please no ‘flames’…this is a really tough subject for me…

No sin at all. The sin would come from willfull disobedience.

 

[1ke]

It is first important to distinguish doctrine from disciplinary rules.

Contraception and Sunday obligation fall into the category of doctrines of the Church: part of the Deposit of Faith. The obligation is not merely to tolerate them but to assent to them-- to believe them. This is called assent of faith or theological assent.

The discipline of eating meat on Fridays is a matter of non-infallible directives of the Ordinary Magesterium through canon law. This requires ordinary assent-- submission to and compliance with the directive based on the authority of the Bishops.

 

[Kathryn_0404]

It is first important to distinguish doctrine from disciplinary rules.

Contraception and Sunday obligation fall into the category of doctrines of the Church: part of the Deposit of Faith. The obligation is not merely to tolerate them but to assent to them-- to believe them. This is called assent of faith or theological assent.

I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “assent to them”?

I believe they’re necessary…as the Church says they are.

Could you clarify, please? Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut…

 

[Seeks_God]

What I’d like to know is if I follow the rules of the Church to the “T”, but am frustrated or annoyed with the rules (don’t like them) is that a mortal or venial sin? Or no sin at all?

I think personal desire and thoughts are normal, but it’s the submission to the will of God that’s important. The Bible is full of stories of people that did what God asked, even when reluctant to do so… Most of the prophets in the Bible desperately wanted the responsibility God charged them with to go elsewhere…

Just my thoughts,

SG

 

[1ke]

I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “assent to them”?

I believe they’re necessary…as the Church says they are.

Could you clarify, please? Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut…

Assent means not that you merely tolerate them, but that you *believe *they are true and give to them the fullness of your Faith (Sunday obligation and contraception).

Those items that are merely authoritative (no meat on Friday) need only the submission of your will, not your Faith.

Perhaps these links will help:

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s1c3a1.htm#I

ourladyswarriors.org/articles/4levels.htm

catholicplanet.com/TSM/assent-dissent.htm

 

[chris_molter]

Kathryn, I completely understand your frustration with the Church’s teachings on BC as well as the weekly Mass obligation. I’m very happy to hear you’ve exercised your will and decided to try and live by the Church’s teachings and place yourself under her divine authority.

Perhaps something that would help you in your struggle to accept these difficult teachings (remember many of Jesus’ followers had trouble with his difficult teachings as well!!) would be to research exactly what the Church teaches about BC and Mass attendance, but WHY the Church teaches what it does. The opposition or difficulty I’ve had with some teachings was quickly melted away when I took the time to really research and try to understand why the Church teaches what it does. It’s not always easy being a faithful, educated Catholic, but it sure as heck pays off!!

 

[Kathryn_0404]

Assent means not that you merely tolerate them, but that you *believe *they are true and give to them the fullness of your Faith (Sunday obligation and contraception).

Those items that are merely authoritative (no meat on Friday) need only the submission of your will, not your Faith.

Thanks so much!

So, as long as my faith is there and I follow through on the rules/obligations I’m okay… Don’t have to like 'em…just follow. Correct?

 

[1ke]

Thanks so much!

So, as long as my faith is there and I follow through on the rules/obligations I’m okay… Don’t have to like 'em…just follow. Correct?

No, I would say you are obligated to more than “don’t like em… just follow”. You are obligated to move from there to fully embracing the Truth.

If you fully understood them it would not be out of tolerance, but out of love that you would embrace these teachings.

So, your job is to keep studying until you fully believe them and love them.

 

[Kathryn_0404]

Well, I fully believe…no problem there…

I’m afraid it will take a miracle to “love them”…but I’ll keep trying.

(I have bad joint problems - so often, the last thing I want to do is get up, leave the house, stand/kneel/sit repeatedly, and shake hands with people/have to talk. I’ve gone thru a few masses just holding back tears).

 

[1ke]

(I have bad joint problems - so often, the last thing I want to do is get up, leave the house, stand/kneel/sit repeatedly, and shake hands with people/have to talk. I’ve gone thru a few masses just holding back tears).

If you cannot kneel, stand, sit, etc, because of a medical condition you are **not **obligated to. You can remain seated the entire time, stand the entire time (in the back so others can see) or whatever position will not cause you undue pain and stress.

And, if there are days when your pain is too severe to dress, drive, walk… your mass obligation is dispensed. Talk to your priest.

 

[Kathryn_0404]

I’ve dealt with the pain since I was 14… I have an “attitude” about it… It’s part of life, it’s something I have to deal with… It’s not going to cause further damage (it’s just painful). I figure if Jesus could go thru the extreme pain he suffered for us…I darn well need to be on my knees in Church! It’s just really hard sometimes.

And the BC ‘issue’ is something I ‘picked up’ from others (married people who have health issues, lack of funds, etc…and can’t afford more kids – so they whine). My Dh and I can’t have kids (we would sincerely LOVE to; doc’s say it just won’t happen…though we pray for little ones in our lives someday…maybe adoption?) so it’s a personal non-issue…other’s “venting” is what gets to me. I see that they have no way of providing for more kids (many we know aren’t providing for the ones they have…government assistance req’d). How do I justify the no BC to them. It’s such an accepted thing in today’s society. I was raised protestant and it was perfectly normal…though I’d never be on it just from reading the awful side-affects!! Scary stuff!!

 

[Kathryn_0404]

As far as the ‘no meat on Fridays’… I wasn’t raised with fasting/abstinance… I guess I just find it more of an inconvenience than anything. I don’t really like meat so it’s not a matter of “missing” it. I get that it’s “going without” something…but it’s not something I enjoy so it’s more of an annoyance in preparing meals (hubby loves it). I just don’t get it.

 

[1ke]

How do I justify the no BC to them.

You don’t justify “no BC”, because that’s not what the Church teaches.

The Church teaches that you *may *postpone/avoid indefinitely/space children when you have a just reason to do so. The Chruch doesn’t teach couples may not employ “birth control”-- the spacing of children.

What the Church *does *teach that the means you use to space the children may not be based on any action that separates the unitive and procreative dimension of intercourse.

Sexual intercourse’s primary purpose is procreation-- that’s what it does. Pleasure is a by-product, not the purpose.

Therefore, those who have a just reason to avoid a pregnancy may abstain from intercourse-- either completely or periodically.

Those who are whining are really whining that they are being forced to confront their selfishness. They want to have the pleasurable feelings of sex without the natural outcome (new life). That is a misuse of sex. So, what they must overcome is their faulty understanding of sexual intimacy as God designed it.

 

[1ke]

As far as the ‘no meat on Fridays’… I wasn’t raised with fasting/abstinance… I guess I just find it more of an inconvenience than anything. I don’t really like meat so it’s not a matter of “missing” it. I get that it’s “going without” something…but it’s not something I enjoy so it’s more of an annoyance in preparing meals (hubby loves it). I just don’t get it.

Christ gave up his Flesh for the life of the World on a Friday. Therefore, in memory of his Sacrifice and as a Penance for our own sins we abstain from flesh meats.

Let hubby fix his own tuna sandwich.

 

[Kathryn_0404]

Christ gave up his Flesh for the life of the World on a Friday. Therefore, in memory of his Sacrifice and as a Penance for our own sins we abstain from flesh meats…

Wow…very profound…thought provoking… Never realized that was the reason. That makes more sense than just “don’t eat meat”. Well, you’ve eliminated one of my 3 “fusses”.

 

[Kathryn_0404]

Kathryn, I completely understand your frustration with the Church’s teachings on BC as well as the weekly Mass obligation. I’m very happy to hear you’ve exercised your will and decided to try and live by the Church’s teachings and place yourself under her divine authority.

Perhaps something that would help you in your struggle to accept these difficult teachings (remember many of Jesus’ followers had trouble with his difficult teachings as well!!) would be to research exactly what the Church teaches about BC and Mass attendance, but WHY the Church teaches what it does. The opposition or difficulty I’ve had with some teachings was quickly melted away when I took the time to really research and try to understand why the Church teaches what it does. It’s not always easy being a faithful, educated Catholic, but it sure as heck pays off!!

Hey Chris,

Looks like I’ve got some studying to do… My hubby loves all the history and such… I’m afraid I’m not as “into” the details of it all. You’re right…it pays off to put time and effort into your faith. Having people around to answer questions sure does help a lot!

 

[Kathryn_0404]

You don’t justify “no BC”, because that’s not what the Church teaches.

The Church teaches that you *may *postpone/avoid indefinitely/space children when you have a just reason to do so. The Chruch doesn’t teach couples may not employ “birth control”-- the spacing of children.

What the Church *does *teach that the means you use to space the children may not be based on any action that separates the unitive and procreative dimension of intercourse.

Sexual intercourse’s primary purpose is procreation-- that’s what it does. Pleasure is a by-product, not the purpose.

Therefore, those who have a just reason to avoid a pregnancy may abstain from intercourse-- either completely or periodically.

Those who are whining are really whining that they are being forced to confront their selfishness. They want to have the pleasurable feelings of sex without the natural outcome (new life). That is a misuse of sex. So, what they must overcome is their faulty understanding of sexual intimacy as God designed it.

Honestly, I think they would stare at me like I’m a crazy person if I suggested abstaining from intercourse to avoid pregnancy instead of using BC (pill or what-not). They want the convenience of not having to ‘worry’ about a pregnancy. Which with no $$ to cover another child or with health concerns I can understand the ‘worry’ part… Just wouldn’t want that poison in my body!! Since we can’t get prego I guess I see the unitive side of marital relations…the bonding between husband and wife. They would have to forgo that connection (at least some of the time) to avoid getting prego. THAT is the hard part to sell… Especially in todays world of self-centeredness and greed. (Sorry, that was kinda blunt…not trying to be harsh to any one in particular…it’s just how the world is).

 

[Kathryn_0404]

You don’t justify “no BC”, because that’s not what the Church teaches.

The Church teaches that you *may *postpone/avoid indefinitely/space children when you have a just reason to do so. The Chruch doesn’t teach couples may not employ “birth control”-- the spacing of children.

What the Church *does *teach that the means you use to space the children may not be based on any action that separates the unitive and procreative dimension of intercourse.

Sexual intercourse’s primary purpose is procreation-- that’s what it does. Pleasure is a by-product, not the purpose.

Therefore, those who have a just reason to avoid a pregnancy may abstain from intercourse-- either completely or periodically.

Those who are whining are really whining that they are being forced to confront their selfishness. They want to have the pleasurable feelings of sex without the natural outcome (new life). That is a misuse of sex. So, what they must overcome is their faulty understanding of sexual intimacy as God designed it.

Honestly, I think they would stare at me like I’m a crazy person if I suggested abstaining from intercourse to avoid pregnancy instead of using BC (pill or what-not). They want the convenience of not having to ‘worry’ about a pregnancy. Which with no $$ to cover another child or with health concerns I can understand the ‘worry’ part… Just wouldn’t want that poison in my body!! Since we can’t get prego I guess I see the unitive side of marital relations…the bonding between husband and wife. They would have to forgo that connection (at least some of the time) to avoid getting prego. THAT is the hard part to sell… Especially in todays world of self-centeredness and greed. (Sorry, that was kinda blunt…not trying to be harsh to any one in particular…it’s just how the world is).