Is it a sin for a Catholic to date a Mormon?

[Holly3278]

Would it be a sin for a Catholic to date a Mormon?

 

[Catholic_Dude]

It is not a sin, but it is unwise and traditionally has been strongly, strongly discouraged. Dating is to lead people in the direction of Marriage, and yet it is not wise nor encouraged for people of two different faiths to get married. For one it is not a Sacramental Marriage, thus there is no grace in the union, second there is an “unequally yoked” (2 Cor 6:14) situation of two different moral and doctrinal standards in play at the same time which hinders spiritual growth of not only parents but the children as well.

In short, getting married to a non-Catholic, especially non-Christian, is (in a great majority of the times) a train wreck waiting to happen.

 

[bbentrup]

CatholicDude is totally correct, but the romantic in me must add that if there is even the smallest chance of converting an attractive non-Catholic to the faith, winning yourself a bride in the bargain, give God at least one chance to make it happen.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

CatholicDude is totally correct, but the romantic in me must add that if there is even the smallest chance of converting an attractive non-Catholic to the faith, winning yourself a bride in the bargain, give God at least one chance to make it happen.

I would have to say there would have to be a significant chance, and even then I would prefer to wait out the conversion before marriage. Too many Catholics get married with the “I can convert them” mentality thinking there is a small chance and it is, all too often, an uphill, no-win battle for them. And that is assuming the non-Catholic doesn’t pull the Catholic away from the Catholic faith first (which is another huge problem).

It cannot be enjoyable (nor symbolically proper) if one spouse cannot, for example, receive the Eucharist at the Wedding, nor can it be when their children are up to be Baptized (esp when one partner utterly rejects infant Baptism). The same can be said for other Sacraments and spiritual tools as well. And worst of all is when it comes time for the children to learn the faith, who’s version do they learn? This is the worst time to confuse them or introduce a sense of relativism.

The negative risks/consequences/effects far, far, far outweigh any shoot-the-moon chances of converting (not to mention that is the wrong attitude to enter a marriage with).

 

[bbentrup]

I would have to say there would have to be a significant chance, and even then I would prefer to wait out the conversion before marriage…

We were talking about dating, not marriage. However, lest I confused anybody I meant for the conversion to happen even before the dating. Here is the order as I was perceiving it:

1. Attraction to non-Catholic.
2. Rejection of mate (quite prudent). Look elsewhere.

2a) (option for the romantic) Talk to non-Catholic about faith and convince to accompany you to RCIA. Show off your studly knowledge of the faith. Chicks dig that!

1. Attend her baptism/confirmation. Give her a congratulatory hug and ask her on a date.
2. Win yourself a bride.

All in Christ’s name!
I hope that was clearer for you, CatholicDude!

 

[Christy_Beth]

What if the catholic is a woman? Some of you seem to have left out that possibility. Before I became a catholic I dated and married a man who’s beliefs were different than mine. I had the idea that we could work out a compromise. Well, he didn’t see it that way. We were married for a long 3 1/2 years. Very miserable years. And it wasn’t just the religious problem either.

 

[StCsDavid]

Would it be a sin for a Catholic to date a Mormon?

If that person were strong in the Mormon faith then it probably would not be wise; however, I’ve run across a lot of cultural Mormons who resemble cultural Catholics. They grew up in the faith, but don’t really understand or necessarily subscribe to its dogmas. I would also suspect that a person deep into the Mormon faith would not consider dating a Catholic as an option.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

We were talking about dating, not marriage. However, lest I confused anybody I meant for the conversion to happen even before the dating. Here is the order as I was perceiving it:

1. Attraction to non-Catholic.
2. Rejection of mate (quite prudent). Look elsewhere.

2a) (option for the romantic) Talk to non-Catholic about faith and convince to accompany you to RCIA. Show off your studly knowledge of the faith. Chicks dig that!

1. Attend her baptism/confirmation. Give her a congratulatory hug and ask her on a date.
2. Win yourself a bride.

All in Christ’s name!
I hope that was clearer for you, CatholicDude!

LOL, too bad you can only do this once!

 

[Seatuck]

It could be a sin depending upon the person. If the person has shown to have a fairly weak faith and knows that they struggle with the faith it could very well be a sin for them to put their faith at risk by forming an emotional attachment to someone who is of another faith or even would want your conversion.

 

[BlaineTog]

For one it is not a Sacramental Marriage, thus there is no grace in the union,

What are you talking about?

1637 In marriages with disparity of cult the Catholic spouse has a particular task: "For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband."138 It is a great joy for the Christian spouse and for the Church if this “consecration” should lead to the free conversion of the other spouse to the Christian faith.Sincere married love, the humble and patient practice of the family virtues, and perseverance in prayer can prepare the non-believing spouse to accept the grace of conversion.

The marriage is still sacramental and grace-filled. If it weren’t sacramental, the Church wouldn’t perform or allow it.

Certainly it’s a difficult situation, but that doesn’t mean a marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic through the Catholic church is strictly speaking inferior.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

What are you talking about?

The marriage is still sacramental and grace-filled. If it weren’t sacramental, the Church wouldn’t perform or allow it.

Certainly it’s a difficult situation, but that doesn’t mean a marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic through the Catholic church is strictly speaking inferior.

A Catholic marrying a non-Christian (eg Mormon) is not a Sacramental marriage, it is merely a natural marriage. The graces that that quote were referring to were those which can facilitate a conversion, but that is not the same as a Sacramental Marriage.
A Sacramental Marriage is indissoluble (while a natural marriage is not), and the graces received increase each spouse in Christian holiness (which is impossible by definition if one spouse is unBaptized and hence not Christian).

 

[BlaineTog]

A Catholic marrying a non-Christian (eg Mormon) is not a Sacramental marriage, it is merely a natural marriage.

The CCC says nothing of the sort. Though granted it doesn’t explicitly confirm that mixed marriages are sacramental, it does imply it, and says nothing to contradict it (and though a few sentences in the section on marriage imply that Catholic marriages are between two Catholics, the section on mixed marriages is set aside as an exception, implying rather heavily that mixed marriages count as Catholic marriages as well, even though they are probably unwise).

The graces that that quote were referring to were those which can facilitate a conversion, but that is not the same as a Sacramental Marriage.

Untrue. Re-read the section:

"For the unbelieving husband is consecrated through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is consecrated through her husband."138 It is a great joy for the Christian spouse and for the Church if this “consecration” should lead to the free conversion of the other spouse to the Christian faith

It draws a sharp distinction between “consecration” and “conversion.” Indeed, it implies that conversion isn’t even the aim of the consecration: the section could be faithfully paraphrased, “Oh, and if the consecration leads to conversion, all the better!”

A Sacramental Marriage is indissoluble (while a natural marriage is not), and the graces received increase each spouse in Christian holiness (which is impossible by definition if one spouse is unBaptized and hence not Christian).

It isn’t impossible if for no other reason than because their spouse is a Christian, and in marriage two become one.

The New Advent Article about this actually supports my point, even though it’s pretty much just a list of what the Church has done to discourage mixed marriages:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09698a.htm:

As Christ raised wedlock to the dignity of a Sacrament, a marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic was rightly looked upon as degrading the holy character of matrimony, involving as it did a communion in sacred things with those outside the fold. The Apostle St. Paul insists strongly on Christian marriage being a symbol of the union between Christ and His Church, and hence sacred. The very intimacy of the union necessarily established between those joined in wedlock requires a concordance above all in their religious sentiments. Holding this doctrine, it was but natural and logical for the Church to do all in her power to hinder her children from contracting marriage with those outside her pale, who did not recognize the sacramental character of the union on which they were entering (see Marriage).

(Emphasis added). I don’t see any way of interpreting those sentences as affirming that mixed marriages aren’t sacramental, though obviously they aren’t in favor of them. Indeed, if they weren’t sacramental, why wouldn’t the article just come out and say as much, or the CCC, for that matter?

 

[dianaballein]

My sister converted to Mormonism at the age of 16. She believes quite a few things much differently than I do, bordering on cultism. Her parents would not condone it, and if they did, I would be surprised.

 

[davidv]

A Catholic marrying a non-Christian (eg Mormon) is not a Sacramental marriage, it is merely a natural marriage. The graces that that quote were referring to were those which can facilitate a conversion, but that is not the same as a Sacramental Marriage.
A Sacramental Marriage is indissoluble (while a natural marriage is not), and the graces received increase each spouse in Christian holiness (which is impossible by definition if one spouse is unBaptized and hence not Christian).

Based on CCC article 1635, this is not completely correct. With the proper dispensation the marriage between a Catholic and an unbaptised person is as valid as any marriage between two Catholics.

According to the law in force in the Latin Church, a mixed marriage needs for liceity the express permission of ecclesiastical authority.137 In case of disparity of cult an express dispensation from this impediment is required for the validity of the marriage.138 This permission or dispensation presupposes that both parties know and do not exclude the essential ends and properties of marriage; and furthermore that the Catholic party confirms the obligations, which have been made known to the non-Catholic party, of preserving his or her own faith and ensuring the baptism and education of the children in the Catholic Church.139

 

[dianaballein]

A Mormon woman would never allow her children to be raised Catholic.

 

[Catholic_Dude]

The CCC says nothing of the sort. Though granted it doesn’t explicitly confirm that mixed marriages are sacramental, it does imply it, and says nothing to contradict it (and though a few sentences in the section on marriage imply that Catholic marriages are between two Catholics, the section on mixed marriages is set aside as an exception, implying rather heavily that mixed marriages count as Catholic marriages as well, even though they are probably unwise).

Here is a good article discussing the difference between Sacramental (both Baptized) and Natural (one or neither Baptized):
catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0610btb.asp

The terms “natural marriage” and “sacramental marriage” are not official terms, but the concepts themselves are official teaching:
1660 The marriage covenant, by which a man and a woman form with each other an intimate communion of life and love, has been founded and endowed with its own special laws by the Creator. By its very nature it is ordered to the good of the couple, as well as to the generation and education of children. Christ the Lord raised marriage between the baptized to the dignity of a sacrament (cf. CIC, can. 1055 § 1; cf. GS 48 § 1).

1661 The sacrament of Matrimony signifies the union of Christ and the Church. It gives spouses the grace to love each other with the love with which Christ has loved his Church; the grace of the sacrament thus perfects the human love of the spouses, strengthens their indissoluble unity, and sanctifies them on the way to eternal life (cf. Council of Trent: DS 1799).

[1640](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1640.htm’) Thus the marriage bond has been established by God himself in such a way that a marriage concluded and consummated between baptized persons can never be dissolved.

If one of the parties is not Baptized then the marriage is merely natural but NOT sacramental. The CCC does a poor job, in my opinion, of making a clear distinction, the Catholic Encyclopedia and the Catholic.com This Rock article I linked to do a better job.

Untrue. Re-read the section:
It draws a sharp distinction between “consecration” and “conversion.” Indeed, it implies that conversion isn’t even the aim of the consecration: the section could be faithfully paraphrased, “Oh, and if the consecration leads to conversion, all the better!”

It is clear the end aim is conversion,
"Sincere married love, the humble and patient practice of the family virtues, and perseverance in prayer can prepare the non-believing spouse to accept the grace of conversion. "
There is no such thing as growing in holiness all the while remaining an unbeliever. Think about it, does it make sense to say someone is growing holy along with you yet they are not Christian? Impossible! Further, the above quote of 1661 shows only Sacramental Marriage gives the graces to grow in Christian love (the grace to love as Christ loved).

It isn’t impossible if for no other reason than because their spouse is a Christian, and in marriage two become one.

They don’t become “one” in a Sacramental sense, Christ united to His Church (the Bride) are the epitome of Sacramental Marriage and yet this image cannot be signified if one or the other spouses is an unbeliever.

The Church is very clear only marriage between two Baptized people is indissoluble. Divorce is allowed (but not encouraged) for non-Sacramental marriages (look up “Pauline Privilege”).

The New Advent Article about this actually supports my point, even though it’s pretty much just a list of what the Church has done to discourage mixed marriages:
(Emphasis added). I don’t see any way of interpreting those sentences as affirming that mixed marriages aren’t sacramental, though obviously they aren’t in favor of them. Indeed, if they weren’t sacramental, why wouldn’t the article just come out and say as much, or the CCC, for that matter?

The CCC does a poor job of getting the proper understanding across, I never imagined the CCC would do such a poor job. Anyway, your Catholic Encyclopedia article was talking about mixed marriages (in which both parties were baptized but not both Catholic). If you look up just the topic of Sacramental Marriage in the encyclopdia here is the first sentence:
That Christian marriage (i.e. marriage between baptized persons) is really a sacrament of the New Law in the strict sense of the word
newadvent.org/cathen/09707a.htm

 

[Catholic_Dude]

Based on CCC article 1635, this is not completely correct. With the proper dispensation the marriage between a Catholic and an unbaptised person is as valid as any marriage between two Catholics.

You need to be careful with terminology here. A valid marriage does not mean it is a Sacramental marriage.

 

[Holly3278]

Ok, first of all, a lot of you seem to be making the mistake in believing that I am a man which is weird because Holly is a female name. I am a woman.

Second of all, I think I am just going to ask my priest for advice on this. I thought I’d get good advice here in this forum and I have gotten some good advice but much of the advice seems to have been conflicted (IE whether or not the marriage would be sacramental).

Third, I am dating this man because I love him and I fully intend to marry him. Just thought I’d clarify that for you all.

If that person were strong in the Mormon faith then it probably would not be wise; however, I’ve run across a lot of cultural Mormons who resemble cultural Catholics. They grew up in the faith, but don’t really understand or necessarily subscribe to its dogmas. I would also suspect that a person deep into the Mormon faith would not consider dating a Catholic as an option.

Jason, the man that I am dating, is probably what you would call a cultural Mormon. He was a convert to the religion but has become disillusioned with his religion and he has implied that the only real reason that he stays a Mormon is because he likes the family atmosphere of the church. He is interested in Catholicism and there seems to be a strong possibility that he might convert to Catholicism.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Ok, first of all, a lot of you seem to be making the mistake in believing that I am a man which is weird because Holly is a female name. I am a woman.

I knew that.

Second of all, I think I am just going to ask my priest for advice on this. I thought I’d get good advice here in this forum and I have gotten some good advice but much of the advice seems to have been conflicted (IE whether or not the marriage would be sacramental).

Sacramental marriage occurs between two Christians. Since the Church does not recognize Mormon baptism as valid, your boyfriend is not Christian - unless, as you suggest below, he was validly baptized BEFORE he became a Mormon.

Third, I am dating this man because I love him and I fully intend to marry him. Just thought I’d clarify that for you all.

Then I hope that A) You are rock-solid in your Catholic faith so that you do not lose it and that B) You have discussed the fact that you do not plan to lose your Catholic faith with your (possibly) non-Christian husband.

Jason, the man that I am dating, is probably what you would call a cultural Mormon. He was a convert to the religion but has become disillusioned with his religion and he has implied that the only real reason that he stays a Mormon is because he likes the family atmosphere of the church. He is interested in Catholicism and there seems to be a strong possibility that he might convert to Catholicism.

This sounds promising. Pray earnestly for him, Holly.

Best wishes.

 

[PaulDupre]

“Oh, but he’s only culturally Mormon,” you might say. “His faith isn’t that important to him.” You have no guarantee that that will continue to be true, especially after the children are born.

Paul (a former Mormon)