Is it a sin for protestants to skip church on Sundays and why do they feel it is okay.

[Loboto-Me]

All you need to look for is Jesus’ resurection which was on a Sunday. What is the Lord’s day? Who is the Lord? Jesus is the Lord, and his resurrection happened on the sunday after his crucifixion. So keeping the Lord’s day holy would naturally be keeping Jesus’ who is also God, day holy.

 

[TriuneUnity]

For openers:

KJV

That is admonishing Christians not to forsake assembling together for worship. I fail to see how that has to do with Sunday being the new Sabbath day.

 

[TriuneUnity]

The Catholic Church has made attendance at Sunday Mass an obligation so serious that non–attendance could well place the absent Catholic in a state of mortal sin. I daresay many in Christendom would view that as legalism – or, at least, not far from it. On the other hand, Evangelical Christians that embrace SOLO Scriptura are probably close to antinomianism, which is perhaps equally undesirable.

How can a balance be struck?

Perplexedly,
Mick

The balance, I believe, is to understand that forsaking corporate worship as the Body of Christ is a sin. However, this is not connected to any one particular day. Christians from apostolic times have met on Sunday because of the resurrection. This is mentioned in the book of Acts. However, no where was it established as a new Sabbath, just like the old Sabbath, except now on Sunday, with all of the attendant rules and regulations that the Sabbath had. The book of Acts continues to refer to Saturday as the Sabbath, not Sunday. Paul later writes that the Sabbath is no longer applicable to Christians. He doesn’t say “the Sabbath was a shadow of Christ, now it is Sunday.”

 

[SSTeacher]

SSTeacher;6603871:

The Catholic Church has made attendance at Sunday Mass an obligation so serious that non–attendance could well place the absent Catholic in a state of mortal sin. I daresay many in Christendom would view that as legalism – or, at least, not far from it. On the other hand, Evangelical Christians that embrace SOLO Scriptura

are probably close to antinomianism, which is perhaps equally undesirable.

How can a balance be struck?

Perplexedly,
Mick
:thumbsup:The balance, I believe, is to understand that forsaking corporate worship as the Body of Christ is a sin. However, this is not connected to any one particular day. Christians from apostolic times have met on Sunday because of the resurrection. This is mentioned in the book of Acts. However, no where was it established as a new Sabbath, just like the old Sabbath, except now on Sunday, with all of the attendant rules and regulations that the Sabbath had. The book of Acts continues to refer to Saturday as the Sabbath, not Sunday. Paul later writes that the Sabbath is no longer applicable to Christians. He doesn’t say “the Sabbath was a shadow of Christ, now it is Sunday.”

If I might ask: Is that the official Lutheran position or are Lutherans allowed to form their own conclusions in this matter?

Curiously,
Mick

 

[Esdra]

Hi all,

as some of my previous speekers have already stated: Protestants don’t primarely attend service on Sunday, because it is a command, but to meet their brothers and sisters in Christ and to worship the Lord!

But many of them also attend Bible-circles in their houses together with some brothers and sisters, or meet each in other in “prayer-evenings”.

Other Protestant Churches (at least in Austria, Europe, where there are only few protestant churches, except Lutherians, with less members) don’t even have a Sunday Service, but they have their Service on another day, like in the Evening on Wednesday or so!

So going to the Sunday service is NOT oblegatoric in the protestant Churches. At least this is the case in baptist or methodist or pentecoastal churches. I can’t speak for the lutherian evangelical Church, but I assume that the situation there is similar!

Best wishes,
Esdra

 

[TriuneUnity]

If I might ask: Is that the official Lutheran position or are Lutherans allowed to form their own conclusions in this matter?

Curiously,
Mick

That would be the official Lutheran position. We retained Sunday worship because it is a custom that goes back to apostolic times and frankly, there wasn’t any reason to change it. At the time of the Reformation, every one worshiped on Sunday, so to just arbitrarily move it around would have caused confusion. In theory, if a Lutheran congregation, for whatever reason, be it the majority of the congregants working on Sunday or what have you, can schedule worship for any day of the week. For example, the parish I belong to is fairly big, 1400 members. Not every one can make it on Sunday. We have two Sunday morning services, and a Thursday evening service, for those who can’t make it Sunday.

In his discussion of the third commandment in the Large Catechism, Luther writes: "This commandment, therefore, according to its gross sense, does not concern us Christians; for it is altogether an external matter, like other ordinances of the Old Testament, which were attached to particular customs, persons, times, and places, and now have been made free through Christ.

But to grasp a Christian meaning for the simple as to what God requires in this commandment, note that we keep holy days not for the sake of intelligent and learned Christians (for they have no need of it), but first of all for bodily causes and necessities, which nature teaches and requires; for the common people, man-servants and maid-servants, who have been attending to their work and trade the whole week, that for a day they may retire in order to rest and be refreshed.

Secondly, and most especially, that on such day of rest (since we can get no other opportunity) freedom and time be taken to attend divine service, so that we come together to hear and treat of God’s Word, and then to praise God, to sing and pray.

However, this, I say, is not so restricted to any time, as with the Jews, that it must be just on this or that day; for in itself no one day is better than another; but this should indeed be done daily; however, since the masses cannot give such attendance, there must be at least one day in the week set apart. But since from of old Sunday has been appointed for this purpose, we also should continue the same, in order that everything be done in harmonious order, and no one create disorder by unnecessary innovation.

Therefore this is the simple meaning of the commandment: since holidays are observed anyhow, such observance should be devoted to hearing God’s Word, so that the special function of this day should be the ministry of the Word for the young and the mass of poor people; yet that the resting be not so strictly interpreted as to forbid any other incidental work that cannot be avoided."

He doesn’t give a sustained argument for non-sabbatarianism. But one can easily be made.

 

[crazzeto]

That is admonishing Christians not to forsake assembling together for worship. I fail to see how that has to do with Sunday being the new Sabbath day.

TriuneUnity,

The Lord’s day has traditionally been Sunday as this is the day on which the Lord arose from the dead. You can in fact find references to the “Lord’s Day” in scripture, for instance

Rev 1:10 I was in the spirit on the Lord’s day and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

If you further do research into the fathers (as I have provided one example already) you will further see clarification that indeed they’re talking about Sunday… In the Apositolic Canon’s quite clearly they’re saying give saturday and the “Day of the Lord” for servents to worship.

Saturday becomes a non-issue later on (after Peter and Paul) with Christians being booted from the Temples. As stated, all worship then moved to Sunday, the day on which we are now all obliged to Worship.

 

[Loboto-Me]

Acts 20 also mentions gathering on the first day to break bread

7 And on the first day of the week, when we were assembled to break bread, Paul discoursed with them, being to depart on the morrow: and he continued his speech until midnight.

 

[TriuneUnity]

TriuneUnity,

The Lord’s day has traditionally been Sunday as this is the day on which the Lord arose from the dead. You can in fact find references to the “Lord’s Day” in scripture, for instance

I have no problem with it being called the Lord’s Day as a matter of tradition. The quote from Revelation hints at this, but it’s far from a sealed issue that John is talking about Sunday. Be that as it may, none of this makes Sunday the new Sabbath. It is never referred to as such.

You will not find any apostolic injunction that we are obligated to worship on Sunday or any other day, much less the Sabbath restrictions that were applicable to the Jews now being applied to Christians. We are obligated to worship with our fellow Christians, but that obligation is whenever the Church worships, regardless of the day.

 

[crazzeto]

I have no problem with it being called the Lord’s Day as a matter of tradition. The quote from Revelation hints at this, but it’s far from a sealed issue that John is talking about Sunday. Be that as it may, none of this makes Sunday the new Sabbath. It is never referred to as such.

You will not find any apostolic injunction that we are obligated to worship on Sunday or any other day, much less the Sabbath restrictions that were applicable to the Jews now being applied to Christians. We are obligated to worship with our fellow Christians, but that obligation is whenever the Church worships, regardless of the day.

And again we get to the fundamental issue we talked about at length in your thread regarding the canon… Once you reject all authority you’re free to beleive what you want, particularly for individuals who reject every source of Christian information except for the bible alone.

I would exhort you to read more deeply into the fathers for an understanding of why Sunday is the new sabbath, the answer is already contained in the quotation I provided. The world was recreated on Sunday, with the rising of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. This is a basic, constant teaching of the Church.

 

[SSTeacher]

SSTeacher;6603980:

If I might ask: Is that the official Lutheran position or are Lutherans allowed to form their own conclusions in this matter?

Curiously,
Mick

That would be the official Lutheran position. We retained Sunday worship because it is a custom that goes back to apostolic times and frankly, there wasn’t any reason to change it. At the time of the Reformation, every one worshiped on Sunday, so to just arbitrarily move it around would have caused confusion. In theory, if a Lutheran congregation, for whatever reason, be it the majority of the congregants working on Sunday or what have you, can schedule worship for any day of the week. For example, the parish I belong to is fairly big, 1400 members. Not every one can make it on Sunday. We have two Sunday morning services, and a Thursday evening service, for those who can’t make it Sunday.

In his discussion of the third commandment in the Large Catechism, Luther writes: "This commandment, therefore, according to its gross sense, does not concern us Christians; for it is altogether an external matter, like other ordinances of the Old Testament, which were attached to particular customs, persons, times, and places, and now have been made free through Christ.

But to grasp a Christian meaning for the simple as to what God requires in this commandment, note that we keep holy days not for the sake of intelligent and learned Christians (for they have no need of it), but first of all for bodily causes and necessities, which nature teaches and requires; for the common people, man-servants and maid-servants, who have been attending to their work and trade the whole week, that for a day they may retire in order to rest and be refreshed.

Secondly, and most especially, that on such day of rest (since we can get no other opportunity) freedom and time be taken to attend divine service, so that we come together to hear and treat of God’s Word, and then to praise God, to sing and pray.

However, this, I say, is not so restricted to any time, as with the Jews, that it must be just on this or that day; for in itself no one day is better than another; but this should indeed be done daily; however, since the masses cannot give such attendance, there must be at least one day in the week set apart. But since from of old Sunday has been appointed for this purpose, we also should continue the same, in order that everything be done in harmonious order, and no one create disorder by unnecessary innovation.

Therefore this is the simple meaning of the commandment: since holidays are observed anyhow, such observance should be devoted to hearing God’s Word, so that the special function of this day should be the ministry of the Word for the young and the mass of poor people; yet that the resting be not so strictly interpreted as to forbid any other incidental work that cannot be avoided."

He doesn’t give a sustained argument for non-sabbatarianism. But one can easily be made.

Thanks. That’s most interesting. So I suppose Lutherans do not follow a liturgical year?

Cordially,
Mick

 

[TriuneUnity]

Thanks. That’s most interesting. So I suppose Lutherans do not follow a liturgical year?

Cordially,
Mick

We do. Such is a matter of custom and practice, however. Not dogma. The liturgical year is seen as beneficial for the community of faith and to mark events that are important in redemptive history. But it is not a matter of law that must be done. There’s not a really good reason not to do it, though.

 

[Daedelus76]

God did not command that we eat crackers and drink grape juice - He commanded that we eat the Body of Blood of Jesus Christ. As Catholics we worship the way God revealed and not the way we decide to do it.

I’m not sure God “reaveled” the Mass at all. St. James says the true religion pleasing to God the Father is to watch ones speech and to care for widows and orphans in their distress. No mention of elaborate rituals.

I know there was a similar thread as this but I would like to ask this from a different perspective. I have several protestant friends and frequently they just skip church like it is no big deal or it is fun or it’s a right because of how hard they have worked

Protestants aren’t as moralistic as some Catholics generally. Skipping a church isn’t exactly good, it’s not something you can “earn up” a right to do and anybody who takes that attitude with God is risking presumption. But in the end its peoples choices to go to church or not, peddling fear and legalism doesn’t necessarily make for good disciples of Christ (and I know lots of Catholics who skip church too).

If you think God throws people into Hell just for missing church on Sunday you have a dim view of God.

 

[SSTeacher]

SSTeacher;6604446:

Thanks. That’s most interesting. So I suppose Lutherans do not follow a liturgical year?

Cordially,
Mick

We do. Such is a matter of custom and practice, however. Not dogma. The liturgical year is seen as beneficial for the community of faith and to mark events that are important in redemptive history. But it is not a matter of law that must be done. There’s not a really good reason not to do it, though.

Understood. Thanks again.

Appreciatively,
Mick

 

[TriuneUnity]

Understood. Thanks again.

Appreciatively,
Mick

Welcome

While it’s important that in Christian freedom we are not obligated to observe one particular day of worship in a week, or observe liturgical feast days, like Christmas, Easter, or Trinity Sunday; it also means we have the Christian freedom TO observe them. If there’s no good reason not to observe them (Scripture forbidding it, for example), and the day or event is symbolic to a testimony of the faith (like Christ having risen on Sunday), then by all means we should do so.

 

[TriuneUnity]

I would exhort you to read more deeply into the fathers for an understanding of why Sunday is the new sabbath, the answer is already contained in the quotation I provided. The world was recreated on Sunday, with the rising of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. This is a basic, constant teaching of the Church.

The fathers make a strong case for not observing the Saturday Sabbath. That, of course, isn’t in question here. They also argue that we should worship on Sunday because it is the day Christ arose. The case that they don’t make is that the Lord’s day is now the new Christian Sabbath, with all of the restrictions attendant to it that were part of the Mosaic covenant sign of the Sabbath.

It’s 100% impossible that God changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, after Christ rose. We can know this for certain because He still calls Saturday the Sabbath 5 times in Acts. Plus, God still calls Sunday the “first (day) from the Sabbath” 8 times (Mt. 28:1; Mk. 16:2; 16:9; Lk. 24:1; Jn. 20:1, 20:19; Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2).

It’s unthinkable that a Jewish author like Paul could believe the Sabbath was still binding when he omitted any exceptions in his 3, negative criticisms of the Sabbath (Rom. 14:5-6; Gal. 4:10; Col. 2:16-17). And, surely if the author of Hebrews believed the Sabbath was transferred to Sunday, he would have explained it in Hebrews 4, right?

Just try substituting Sabbatarian exceptions into these verses, and see how ridiculous they sound… “Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath (except the weekly, Christian Sabbath). These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ” (Col. 2:16-17). “One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days (except the weekly, Christian Sabbath) alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” (Rom. 14:5-6). “…how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? You observe days (except the weekly, Christian Sabbath) and months and seasons and years!” (Gal. 4:9-10).

 

[KathleenGee]

St. Ignatius of Antioch wrote, ‘Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord’s Day, to which our life is blessed by him and by his death.’

CC2176: ‘The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all’, St. Thomas Aquinas. Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of His people.

For a Catholic, the greatest feastday in the church is not Christmas or Easter, but 'the foremost holy day of obligation of the universal church…and it dates back to the beginnings of the ancient assembies in the apostolic age…the Letter to Hebrews reminds the faithful 'Not to neglect to meet together, as is the habit of some, but to encourage each other…CC2178.

Each Sunday, the Lord is present to us in all His fullness of presence, power, and mercy as He was originally on Resurrection Sunday before His ascension into heaven.

The Catholic teaching is as well that the Heavenly Father created the universe through Jesus Christ Who became man.

St. John Chrysostom states in ‘De incomprehensibili 3, 6,"You cannot pray at home as at church, where there is a great multitude, where exclamations are cired out to God as from one great heart, and where there is something more: the union of minds, accord of souls, the bond of charity, the prayers of the priests’.

We are to refrain from anything that hinders the worship owed to God, the joy proper to the Lord’s day, the performance of the works of mercy, and the appropriate relaxation of mind and body.

Sources from Universal Catechism.

We try as a family not to do unnessary work and to make it a day of reflection and quiet. But some in the family are into sports…and so we do have a split…Sunday is also a day to do merciful works for others…especially for those who work the rest of the week.

 

[KathleenGee]

In consideration of the different topics coming up lately, no devout Catholic would ever see themselves as earning anything to get into heaven.

I try to go to daily Mass as much as possible, and the spirit of one heart and mind is beautiful and so peaceful, we all experiencing the Lord as one…that a little of heaven is already with us.

 

[Bluegoat]

Thanks. That’s most interesting. So I suppose Lutherans do not follow a liturgical year?

Cordially,
Mick

Even in the Catholic Church the liturgical year is not set in stone. It may, and has been changed.

But the liturgical Protestant Churches would agree that there are god reasons to retain the practice of the liturgical year. It has a lot of psychological advantages, it allows us to be in community not only within our own parish, but with others in other places, and even other times. Weekly cycles also have similar advantages - fasting on a Friday, Community celebration and worship on Sunday. And even daily cycles - in my tradition Morning prayer, noon prayers, evensong, compline, maybe daily Mass.

I think most serious Protestants would agree on certain principles - to worship as a community is very important; to set aside regular time to do so is important. Not to do these things would be understood to potentially show a real problem with one’s understanding of one’s obligation to God and the community, and to be likely quite negative for the development of one’s spiritual life.

Which when you come down to it sounds a lot like the definition of a mortal sin.

 

[Esdra]

Hi,

I have been attending an evangelical Church (In Europe they are called “evangelical Freechurches” - so that they are distunguishable from the Lutherian Evangelical Church; Normally these are Baptist, Methodist, Mennonite Churches etc.; But some of them are also just called “Free Evangelical Church”. However, none of these have to do anything with the Lutherian Evangelical Church [which is called in German “Evangelische Kirche A.B.”]) for more than half a year now.

In all these Churches mentined above there is no liturgical year (except Easter, Christmas and Pentecoast). It was strange to me first, but in the mean time I am used to it.
However I also attended Lutherian Evangelical Church services and there IS a liturgical year, just as in the Anglican Church. All in all I would even say that the whole Lutherian Evangelical and Anglican ('though I’ve never been to an Anglican service so far) services are very similar to the Catholic Mass. - Except that you can meet a femal-priest or a married priest there and that there is no transubstantiation and that the Holy Supper is not held every Sunday, but, let’s say every 14 Days or once a month or what ever Regulation they have.

Coming back to “my” Free Evangelical Church - we hold the Supper only once a month.

Best Wishes,
Esdra

Even in the Catholic Church the liturgical year is not set in stone. It may, and has been changed.

But the liturgical Protestant Churches would agree that there are god reasons to retain the practice of the liturgical year. It has a lot of psychological advantages, it allows us to be in community not only within our own parish, but with others in other places, and even other times. Weekly cycles also have similar advantages - fasting on a Friday, Community celebration and worship on Sunday. And even daily cycles - in my tradition Morning prayer, noon prayers, evensong, compline, maybe daily Mass.

I think most serious Protestants would agree on certain principles - to worship as a community is very important; to set aside regular time to do so is important. Not to do these things would be understood to potentially show a real problem with one’s understanding of one’s obligation to God and the community, and to be likely quite negative for the development of one’s spiritual life.

Which when you come down to it sounds a lot like the definition of a mortal sin.