Is it a sin to allow someone to drink, when they are younger than legal age, for cultural reasons- even if they are under adult supervision and have p

  • Thread starter Thread starter m134e5
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

m134e5

Guest
In reference to drug use and other issues of today, people cite the law (civil law, not natural law- though the two may be in agreement) as grounds for determining if something is sinful.

So here’s the scenario: You’re at a family reunion or some kind of get-together. You have the barbecue going, and a father gives his 8-year-old son a drink of his beer (which, if the kid is like most kids I’ve seen, spits it out and wonders why his dad drinks that stuff).

Another scenario: You’re having a nice home-cooked Italian dinner with relatives (if you don’t have Italian relatives, pretend that you do), and are enjoying a glass of wine. Of course, wine is a big part of Italian culture, and there is something elegant and beautiful in general about wine. A mother gives her daughter a small sip of the wine. Maybe she likes it, and maybe she doesn’t- but she tasted good wine for the first time at age 10 (it’s been my experience that most sacramental wine isn’t very good- that’s one reason I never recieve from the chalice).

Now these are kids from the US- where the legal age for drinking is 21. A lot of people stretch this law- some are more “innocent”, like in the scenarios I gave above- which is what I am addressing in my question. Let’s ignore the 19-year-old college freshmen at the frat parties for now.

The question: Is it a sin to allow someone to drink, when they are younger than legal age, for cultural reasons (as described in the scenarios above) if they are under adult supervision and have parental consent? If so, what kind of sin is it?

A. No, it isn’t a sin- it’s fine, within reason- and I drink.
B. No, it isn’t a sin- it’s fine, within reason- and I don’t drink
C. No, it isn’t a sin- it is just a bad idea- and I drink
D. No, it isn’t a sin- it is just a bad idea- and I don’t drink
E. Yes, it is a venial sin, and I drink.
F. Yes, it is a venial sin, and I don’t drink
G. Yes, it is a mortal sin- and I drink
H. Yes, it is a mortal sin- and I don’t drink

I’ll make this poll anonymous to encourage more people to answer, but defense of answers would be appreciated- particularly if your answer isn’t popular.
 
In Texas you are allowed to have your child drink at the table if they are underage if you buy it for them. To me it’s a parent’s job to teach a child to do things within reason and with responsibility. Drinking is not immoral, or Christ would not have changed water into wine or drunk wine Himself.

And making something forbidden fruit only makes it more desirable. I only let them try some on special occasions. But by now their “friends” are getting heavier stuff and going off and getting bombed and doing drugs. So I’m not going to pretend that no one underage ever drinks. I just show them that you don’t need to get plowed to have a happy life.
 
We had real champagne (in a champagne glass) every year on New Years since… well since I can remember. One glass to toast at midnight -I don’t think I ever drank more than a few sips as a kid, it tasted awful to me at the time. I tasted my dad’s mixed drinks occasionally in restaurants growing up. My parents are both from Europe so it wasn’t uncommon for them. As a teenager when I would have dinner at a close friend of mine’s house we’d have a half a glass of her dad’s home made wine mixed with a half a glass of Mountain Dew (the original wine cooler 😉 ). They were from Europe as well. I have to say I never saw any of the adults in my life intoxicated growing up and I think I learned the meaning of social drinking from their examples.
Now there is a difference between a glass of wine or allowing a minor to get drunk. I think allowing a minor to get drunk is a sin not to mention terrible parenting.
 
Where I live, it is legal for a parent to allow his/her minor children to drink alcoholic beverages at home (I’d have to look up the precise wording, but since it only happens at the dinner table, I’m not worried about it–I’m well within the boundary of the law).

I believe that “magic age” legislation is a bad idea.

I think it is a fine thing for parents to not make alcoholic beverages ‘forbidden fruit’ and model responsible behavior–a single glass of wine with dinner–watered for the youngest children; a mini-glass of beer (that is one quarter max. of the beer) at a cookout sort of meal (say eating in the backyard instead of inside–very common in summer).

Getting drunk (or allowing a minor child to get drunk) is sinful for anyone. If it snuck up on them (not eating as much, stronger drink, some med. that magnifies the effect), venial–but deliberate drinking to get bombed is grave matter.
 
m134e5 said:
Another scenario: You’re having a nice home-cooked Italian dinner with relatives (if you don’t have Italian relatives, pretend that you do), and are enjoying a glass of wine. Of course, wine is a big part of Italian culture, and there is something elegant and beautiful in general about wine. A mother gives her daughter a small sip of the wine. Maybe she likes it, and maybe she doesn’t- but she tasted good wine for the first time at age 10 (it’s been my experience that most sacramental wine isn’t very good- that’s one reason I never recieve from the chalice).

Now these are kids from the US- where the legal age for drinking is 21. A lot of people stretch this law- some are more “innocent”, like in the scenarios I gave above- which is what I am addressing in my question. Let’s ignore the 19-year-old college freshmen at the frat parties for now.
Click to expand...
I happen to be part of such a family, and “underage” drinking of wine is a common occurrence. Here in Oz minors are allowed to consume alkanol if in the presence of a parent at home or at a licensed restaurant (but not at a pub) I’m sure similar laws exist in the US.
 
I am not asking if it is a sin or not to allow someone under 21 to drink. I am asking if it is a sin to allow someone to drink- in situations like the ones I mentioned in my first post- who is under the legal drinking age (this part assumes that those in question live in a place where there is a legal drinking age- making drinking when you are younger than that illegal). Is that a sin? If it is never an issue where you are, then please consider another place- where it is an issue.
 
m134e5 said:
I am not asking if it is a sin or not to allow someone under 21 to drink. I am asking if it is a sin to allow someone to drink- in situations like the ones I mentioned in my first post- who is under the legal drinking age (this part assumes that those in question live in a place where there is a legal drinking age- making drinking when you are younger than that illegal). Is that a sin? If it is never an issue where you are, then please consider another place- where it is an issue.
Click to expand...
Ok. Personally I think it is wise for a good Catholic to follow the law of the land in matters that are not gravely in conflict with those of the Church. If the law in a particular jurisdiction states that no drinking is allowed under 21, then that should be adhered to. We Catholics aren’t anarchists 😉
 
First, I’ll mention that I don’t drink, other than on very special occasions. We don’t keep any alcohol in the house.

I have no problem with kids taking a sip of something that their parents are drinking. Kids are curious, and it’s not like you’re giving them their own glass full of the stuff. A few sips aren’t going to hurt a kid.

I also think children should receive the Chalice at Holy Communion when it is offered, if they choose to do so, in order to emphasize the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, under both species.

I once had a student who thought he was going to be “rebellious” and receive the Chalice - he was all set to get into an argument with me when he came over at the student Mass and asked me if he could do so - I told him, “Of course you can, and in fact you should - it’s the Blood of Christ!” His jaw practically dropped to the floor; he said, “Really?” I said, “Yes, really.”

“I knew that,” he said, and I said, 'Of course you did - you were even going to remind me of that, if I had said ‘No’ to you, weren’t you?" He just looked at me and said, “Wow - you’re good.” Yep. 😃
 
A better question might be: Is it a sin to create a title of a thread so long that it can hardly be read or understood by most people with ordinary intelligence who have scored well on conventionally normed IQ tests graded by psychologists who are certified in their home state and a neighboring one?

You get it.

John
 
jmcrae said:
I once had a student who thought he was going to be “rebellious” and receive the Chalice - he was all set to get into an argument with me when he came over at the student Mass and asked me if he could do so - I told him, “Of course you can, and in fact you should - it’s the Blood of Christ!” His jaw practically dropped to the floor; he said, “Really?” I said, “Yes, really.”

“I knew that,” he said, and I said, 'Of course you did - you were even going to remind me of that, if I had said ‘No’ to you, weren’t you?" He just looked at me and said, “Wow - you’re good.” Yep. 😃
Click to expand...
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

But it raises a good point. If underage drinking is strictly forbidden in some US jurisdictions is there a provision that allows children to drink from the chalice at communion?
 
You said:

“(it’s been my experience that most sacramental wine isn’t very good- that’s one reason I never recieve from the chalice).”

I am always confounded when people say things such as this. While it is not necessary to partake of both species, I feel it is important that we do so. Taste notwithstanding; same for fear of catching a cold, etc (unless I was in very frail health, perhaps, but even then I believe I would still drink from the chalice). I do not care if the wafer tastes like year-old cardboard and the wine tastes like it has been squeezed from a floor mop – it is the consecrated body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. I never speak of it, or think of it, in crude terms of taste or texture – I am simply deeply, deeply grateful for it!
 
Proletarian said:
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

But it raises a good point. If underage drinking is strictly forbidden in some US jurisdictions is there a provision that allows children to drink from the chalice at communion?
Click to expand...
Yes. The National Minimum Drinking Age Act of '84 specifically allows alcohol consumption by those under 21 for religious purposes, if their parents, guardians, or spouses are around and of age.
 
Mirdath said:
Yes. The National Minimum Drinking Age Act of '84 specifically allows alcohol consumption by those under 21 for religious purposes, if their parents, guardians, or spouses are around and of age.
Click to expand...
The particulars of that law are intersting to me. So if person under 21 were to attend mass alone, then they would be breaking the law in recieving the Precious Blood? (well assuming the priest doesn’t count as a guardian 🤷 )
 
Oh, and I think this one is really hard. As I understand it, many places make exemptions from this law for parental presance and for certain occasions.

But assuming these are not exempted…then I have to say that you’re intentionally breaking the law. What’s more, a law that you have no moral need to be breaking. Thus I voted it as a sin. Mortal or venial, I certianly can’t say. You’ve may not have thought it through, there may be social pressures…heck there is even the fear that keeping every sniff of alcohol from you child will encourage stupid mistakes when 21 arrives.

However, all that said, law is law and breaking it for flippant reasons or b/c of what ‘may come’ is not acceptable. Do we put our daughters on the pill because if what may come is we didn’t (sadly many doctors actually reccoment that)?
 
Smber2c said:
The particulars of that law are intersting to me. So if person under 21 were to attend mass alone, then they would be breaking the law in recieving the Precious Blood? (well assuming the priest doesn’t count as a guardian 🤷 )
Click to expand...
I haven’t read the full text of the law, only skimmed summaries – but yes, that would appear to be the case.

This country’s drug laws (and alcohol and tobacco are drugs) are ridiculous.
 
You must be 21 years of age to buy alcohol. It is NOT now, nor has it ever been, illegal for PARENTS to give their OWN children alcohol. You may not give any other minor alcohol, but you can give it to your own children.
 
John_Higgins said:
A better question might be: Is it a sin to create a title of a thread so long that it can hardly be read or understood by most people with ordinary intelligence who have scored well on conventionally normed IQ tests graded by psychologists who are certified in their home state and a neighboring one?

You get it.

John
Click to expand...
I’m sorry for the long title…but I put it that way so that those who would not be interested in opening the thread at all, wouldn’t have to open it to find out what’s in it. I put the question in the title, because (I think) it’s too far into the opening post to read it by holding your mouse pointer over it.

I had to make the question long, because I have found that questions have to be very detailed on message boards, or people answer them by finding ways to dodge around what I’m really getting at. As specific as it was in the beginning, I still had to make the question more specific.
 
CCM08 said:
You must be 21 years of age to buy alcohol. It is NOT now, nor has it ever been, illegal for PARENTS to give their OWN children alcohol. You may not give any other minor alcohol, but you can give it to your own children.
Click to expand...
For the sake of the poll, please pretend that it is. The question I am asking is basically this: “Is it a sin to break the law in the privacy of your own home, if doing so does not cause any significant damage?”
 
So here’s the scenario: You’re at a family reunion or some kind of get-together. You have the barbecue going, and a father gives his 8-year-old son a drink of his beer (which, if the kid is like most kids I’ve seen, spits it out and wonders why his dad drinks that stuff).
Click to expand...
Another scenario: You’re having a nice home-cooked Italian dinner with relatives (if you don’t have Italian relatives, pretend that you do), and are enjoying a glass of wine.
Click to expand...
Well you just about nailed my upbringing. 😉 , but left out that our family is German, living around a bunch of “Eye-tyes”…😛

Beer or Wine with a family gathering supper was just as important as having cabbage, potatos, and dark bread with butter… an integral part of supper. Along with the requisite glass of milk or water, us kids also got a small glass of wine or beer.

Gemütlichkeit unt Prosit!
 
It’s fine within reason, and I drink occaisionally.

Let me qualify that:

It is necessary to adhere to the laws of your nation/state/province/municipality, assuming that the law is not unjust.

A law restricting alcohol consumption to people of a certain age is not unjust.

In the US, parents are usually afforded the right to allow their children to drink moderately and under their supervision.

In many other countries, if one is old enough to go up to the bar and order a drink, it’s legal to serve them.

In neither case is it acceptable for parents to allow their children to drink excessively (note that an excessive amount will vary depending on the child’s age, size, etc).

What’s important is educating children about responsible drinking. It’s my opinion that, in our country, we have so many problems with underage drinking and alcoholism in general largely due to the stigma placed on drinking – and largely due to our drinking age.

Peace,
Dante
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top