Is it a sin to attend/celebrate the Passover Seder?

[Barbkw]

The important thing to realize, is that Jesus fulfilled the Jewish Passover Seder when He established His New Covenant at the Last Supper.

P.S. The “Last Supper” was not the last time that Jesus ate with His disciples or with His Apostles.

 

[DL82]

when-is.com/easter-2011.asp

If you attend a Seder meal, hosted by a Catholic Church, you will come away with a JudeoChristian understanding of the ceremony that Jews have celebrated since the Israelites left Egypt.

catholicinformation.aquinasandmore.com/2009/02/19/what-is-a-catholic-seder/

I can’t find a reference for this, but I remember being told by a very knowledgeable nun that the Church frowns upon Catholic Churches hosting a passover Seder as part of their Holy Week celebrations - largely out of respect for the Jewish people. For us to celebrate the Seder as a preparation for Holy Thursday Mass would be like the Muslims celebrating a faux Catholic Mass as a preparation for their own prayers - mimicing the things another faith holds sacred.

I know that’s not exactly relevant to this thread, but I think the key point is, if you are attending a Jewish Seder then you have to attend it in the spirit in which it is given, but if you cannot do that, then don’t ‘go through the motions’ and play-act a Seder giving it some other meaning.

 

[Barbkw]

There is an enormous preparation for Jews to properly celebrate Passover:

ou.org/chagim/pesach/pesachguide/maze/basic3.htm

I’d think that very few Jewish families would invite non Jews into their homes - who don’t realize the requirements of the ceremonies - during this period.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover

 

[Iotaunum]

A Catholic Should not attend a Passover Seder and certainly not celebrate one.

Attendance at non-catholic ceremonies was permissable only to pay respects to a dead friend/relative at a Funeral, or a non-catholic wedding. Even when this is the case, participation is not an option.

Outside of the above reasons; attendance to please a friend/relative, to encourage good relations, for curiosity etc would indeed be a sin an pose a danger to your faith, not to mention scandal which could be caused by Catholics/non-Catholics seeing a Catholic in attendance.

Whether some would challenge this teaching is superflous, given that the Church undeniably held this teaching for almost 2,000 years of its existance. The evidence is everywhere from Moral theology manuals to Papal Encyclicals etc.

 

[baylee]

Can someone point me to official Catholic teaching re: not attending Jewish seders and other non-Catholic events? Because when I read the Catechism I see nothing about this.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

I can’t find a reference for this, but I remember being told by a very knowledgeable nun that the Church frowns upon Catholic Churches hosting a passover Seder as part of their Holy Week celebrations - largely out of respect for the Jewish people. For us to celebrate the Seder as a preparation for Holy Thursday Mass would be like the Muslims celebrating a faux Catholic Mass as a preparation for their own prayers - mimicing the things another faith holds sacred.

I know that’s not exactly relevant to this thread, but I think the key point is, if you are attending a Jewish Seder then you have to attend it in the spirit in which it is given, but if you cannot do that, then don’t ‘go through the motions’ and play-act a Seder giving it some other meaning.

Actually, what she said was “nun-sense” in the negative meaning . . . I’ve many Jewish friends who actually find the celebration of Passover by Christians to be a positive thing.

The Catholic Church has NEVER condemned the celebration of a Passover Seder by Catholics in their own homes or church halls (that occurs up here yearly). Hopefully, this has not put the Toronto Archdiocese in schism from the rest of the Catholic Church . . .

No one is forcing anyone to do this. It is an “extra” that can bring a closeness to Christ within our Lord’s own cultural context in which He lived.

As the Jewish philosopher, Martin Buber, once said to a Protestant “We knew Him (Jesus) in a way you never will . . .”

Alex

 

[Alexander_Roman]

A Catholic Should not attend a Passover Seder and certainly not celebrate one.

Attendance at non-catholic ceremonies was permissable only to pay respects to a dead friend/relative at a Funeral, or a non-catholic wedding. Even when this is the case, participation is not an option.

Outside of the above reasons; attendance to please a friend/relative, to encourage good relations, for curiosity etc would indeed be a sin an pose a danger to your faith, not to mention scandal which could be caused by Catholics/non-Catholics seeing a Catholic in attendance.

Whether some would challenge this teaching is superflous, given that the Church undeniably held this teaching for almost 2,000 years of its existance. The evidence is everywhere from Moral theology manuals to Papal Encyclicals etc.

Could you please just one quote in this regard? This would be news to the Hebrew Catholics who, for the most part, observe many Jewish holidays and rituals but as Catholics. Alex

 

[Alexander_Roman]

As I said, a Christianization of the meal, celebrated as a family tradition under the auspices of Christ, as any Christian meal is, is harmless ; however, if she means her Jewish family’s ritualistic practice of the meal, than that would be a participation in the religious celebration of another religion, which Catholics are always forbidden to do, owing in no small part to the law of Lex orandi ; lex credendi, I imagine. This cannot be justified, furthermore, on the fact that many Jewish rituals, festivals, and celebrations were, at the time of Christ’s coming, participated in by Christ Himself and His Apostles, or at least had their origins in them, for He Himself is the interpreter and, as I said, even originator of these things. He has revealed to us their proper and true meaning, and fulfilled them, as promised, and hence the Apostles would perpetuate these practices in a Christian context ; that is, with the meaning Christ gave to them, which was their purpose. Thus I make recourse to the important distinction between things merely natural, and those things that are Supernatural, which are of infinite more value, owing to their being Eternal / Ever-lasting.

Pax Christi,
Tim

No problem with what you’ve said. Judaism has a special relation to Christianity, of course. Judaism is our historic “parent” in faith, its patriarchs and prophets are ours, the psalms etc. are all our heritage as well in the Light of Christ.

There is nothing that is Jewish that is foreign to me as a follower of the Jewish Messiah.

Here is the website of the Association of Hebrew Catholics for anyone who is interested:

www.hebrewcatholic.org

Alex

 

[Iotaunum]

Could you please just one quote in this regard? This would be news to the Hebrew Catholics who, for the most part, observe many Jewish holidays and rituals but as Catholics. Alex

The Seder (Passover Supper) was the sacrificial ritual prescribed by God for the Jews in the Old Testament - a Lamb was sacrificed and eaten with unleavened bread.

The Passover was a prefigurement of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God - Christ -on Calvary’s Cross and in Mass of course. Catholics would no longer observe the Seder than they would sacrifice animals as in the Old Law.

With regards to your question; “Could you please just one quote in this regard?” I assume you mean the “Attendance at non-catholic ceremonies” of which I was speaking. In this regard I would direct you to read firstly encylicals such as Mortalium Animos by Pius IX and then consult any moral theology manual or apologetics work.

With regards to those hebrew Catholics you speak of, I would suggest they stop observing Jewish rituals and observe the New Law alone. The Mass replaced this service. Arguments of ecumenical reasons and curiosity just dont cut it with me.

 

[Robert_Burns]

My husband is telling me that Pre-Vatican II that it was a sin to attend any non-Catholic (“pagan”) ceremonies, etc. Is there Catholic teaching that supports this prior to Vatican II? Also, what about current teaching…did it really change?

I can certainly see his point that we are taking part in a ceremony that denies Christ. Yet, I am torn on this.

Why would you want to? The Passover prefigured Calvary. Its like asking if you had the chance today to meet Jesus , the Son of GOD in the flesh face to face or Moses face to face in the flesh , which one would you choose? I love Moses as much as the next guy but he isnt GOD.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

The Seder (Passover Supper) was the sacrificial ritual prescribed by God for the Jews in the Old Testament - a Lamb was sacrificed and eaten with unleavened bread.

The Passover was a prefigurement of the sacrifice of the Lamb of God - Christ -on Calvary’s Cross and in Mass of course. Catholics would no longer observe the Seder than they would sacrifice animals as in the Old Law.

With regards to your question; “Could you please just one quote in this regard?” I assume you mean the “Attendance at non-catholic ceremonies” of which I was speaking. In this regard I would direct you to read firstly encylicals such as Mortalium Animos by Pius IX and then consult any moral theology manual or apologetics work.

With regards to those hebrew Catholics you speak of, I would suggest they stop observing Jewish rituals and observe the New Law alone. The Mass replaced this service. Arguments of ecumenical reasons and curiosity just dont cut it with me.

OK - Agreed. We’re talking about a Passover Seder in a Christian context in Catholic homes and parishes.

Those who have a Seder are not trying to denigrate the Mass in any way. There are traditions European Catholics have taken from their pagan past that have been Christianized over time. There was a Jewish liturgical rite in Jerusalem at the time of the Apostles prior to 70 AD as well. This is NOT about being ecumenical, but about deepening the Christian experience re: our Lord’s Jewish heritage and that of the Church herself. And nothing to do with curiosity. The Hebrew Catholics have every right (rite?) to observe elements of their Jewish heritage and the Vatican has given them permission to do so. Why shouldn’t there be a “Jewish Rite” in the Catholic Church?

Our Catholic Bibles have the Old Testament - in fact, we have more books in the Old Testament than the Protestants do. Is the Old Testament also something we should just forget about?

Alex

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Why would you want to? The Passover prefigured Calvary. Its like asking if you had the chance today to meet Jesus , the Son of GOD in the flesh face to face or Moses face to face in the flesh , which one would you choose? I love Moses as much as the next guy but he isnt GOD.

I don’t see the comparison at all. Catholics who have the Passover Seder or the Hebrew Catholics who have other elements of their Judaic tradition are NOT denying Christ.

In fact, they are seeing Christ in the Jewish context in which our Lord lived. Thus, they have an opportunity to see Christ in the Flesh more clearly.

Alex

 

[PennyinCanada]

If I had the invitation to go, I wouldn’t hesitate for a moment! My attendance there would be to see Christ hidden as he was hidden in so much of the Old Testament, and it would be a JOY to recognize him there! It would be like seeing Moses standing on the high place, arms outstretched to the sides, while the battle went on below. As long as his arms were outstretched, like Jesus would one day be on the Cross, they were winning the battle. Beautiful. Awesome! It only makes sense after Christ revealed Himself to the world. All these things point to Christ, the Light of the World. I would give praise to God all the way home for the blessing to “go back in time” for a bit. He’s not so hidden to a Catholic mind.

 

[Robert_Burns]

I don’t see the comparison at all. Catholics who have the Passover Seder or the Hebrew Catholics who have other elements of their Judaic tradition are NOT denying Christ.

In fact, they are seeing Christ in the Jewish context in which our Lord lived. Thus, they have an opportunity to see Christ in the Flesh more clearly.

Alex

Well , I didnt say they DENIED Christ , you did. Second - Jesus is GOD and The HOLY EUCHARIST is the Real Presence = GOD. So , what you are saying is - by going to a Hebrew Seder instead of HOLY MASS where the transubstantiated Host which is GOD (Dogma) is somehow better? Sorry - but they do not see Christ in the Flesh at a seder.

 

[The_Old_Medic]

So many who simply do not understand what a Seder is. It is NOT a Jewish religious service, in the sense that it is their form of worship. It never has been that.

It did NOT stand for anything prior to Calvary, other than what it was, and what it remains. It is a CELEBRATION of the fact that God led the Jews out of Egypt, through the mechanism of the “Passover”, which refers to the fact that the “Angel of death passed over the homes of the Jews, who had identified their homes with the blood of a lamb painted on the doorposts and lintel.”

It is a celebration of the compassion and love of God, and of his eternal covenant with the Jews, his “Chosen People”.

Our Church teaches that the Jews are STILL his chose people.

Some of you REALLY need to learn about what other religions actually do, and about our own theology.

I, as a child, both before and after my baptism into the Catholic Church, attended many church services conducted by my grandfather, who was a Free Methodist Minister for 55 years. I did this with the full knowledge and approval of my parish priest, and with the dispensation of the Archbishop of San Francisco. This was PRE-VATICAN II folks.

The ONLY thing I could not do was to state their expression of faith, and partake of their communion. But, I was free to attend the services, and I spoke at his funeral, which was conducted by two ministers of that church. I also spoke at his graveside service, and led the “Our Father” there.

Instead of spreading “superstition” to others, how about some reality. It was NEVER considered a sin to participate in a Seder, which under Jewish rules ALWAYS takes place in a home, and never in the Temple.

I had good nuns, brothers and even a few priests tell me a lot of superstitious nonsense about what was, and what was not a sin. Things like, “Having a wet dream was a sin”. Or, “Even thinking about sex for an instant was a mortal sin”.

It was only when I went to Seminary myself that I learned what the official teachings of the church were. And I went PRE-VATIVCAN II, to the Passionist’s. They were hardly a “liberal” organization back then.

 

[kitkatty]

If I had the invitation to go, I wouldn’t hesitate for a moment! My attendance there would be to see Christ hidden as he was hidden in so much of the Old Testament, and it would be a JOY to recognize him there! It would be like seeing Moses standing on the high place, arms outstretched to the sides, while the battle went on below. As long as his arms were outstretched, like Jesus would one day be on the Cross, they were winning the battle. Beautiful. Awesome! It only makes sense after Christ revealed Himself to the world. All these things point to Christ, the Light of the World. I would give praise to God all the way home for the blessing to “go back in time” for a bit. He’s not so hidden to a Catholic mind.

Penny, I love your reference to Moses standing with his arms heldup, outstretched in prayer and Jesus with His arms outstretched on the cross, beautiful.I never made that link before, just another example of how the Old Testament prefigures Christ in so many ways.

 

[baylee]

Why would you want to? The Passover prefigured Calvary. Its like asking if you had the chance today to meet Jesus , the Son of GOD in the flesh face to face or Moses face to face in the flesh , which one would you choose? I love Moses as much as the next guy but he isnt GOD.

I guess you missed the part about my being a Jewish convert to the Catholic Faith and that this seder is not just any seder, but the seder my family celebrates every year (and a seder that I have always enjoyed taking part in). This is an emotional topic for me. My faith has changed but my heritage (and love for it) has not. In addition, we are talking about the relationship I have with my family. I have asked over and over for proof that attending a seder is a sin…and I’m still waiting. All I have gotten so far are personal opinions. Where’s the official Catholic teaching on this?

 

[Phemie]

I guess you missed the part about my being a Jewish convert to the Catholic Faith and that this seder is not just any seder, but the seder my family celebrates every year (and a seder that I have always enjoyed taking part in). This is an emotional topic for me. My faith has changed but my heritage (and love for it) has not. In addition, we are talking about the relationship I have with my family. I have asked over and over for proof that attending a seder is a sin…and I’m still waiting. All I have gotten so far are personal opinions. Where’s the official Catholic teaching on this?

This is what the USCCB’s document ***“God’s Mercy Endures Forever: Guidelines on the Presentation of Jews and Judaism in Catholic Preaching” ***says about Seders:

1. It is becoming familiar in many parishes and Catholic homes to participate in a Passover Seder during Holy Week. This practice can have educational and spiritual value. It is wrong, however, to “baptize” the Seder by ending it with New Testament readings about the Last Supper or, worse, turn it into a prologue to the Eucharist. Such mergings distort both traditions. The following advice should prove useful:

When Christians celebrate this sacred feast among themselves, the rites of the haggadah for the seder should be respected in all their integrity. The seder . . . should be celebrated in a dignified manner and with sensitivity to those to whom the seder truly belongs. The primary reason why Christians may celebrate the festival of Passover should be to acknowledge common roots in the history of salvation. Any sense of “restaging” the Last Supper of the Lord Jesus should be avoided … The rites of the Triduum are the [Church’s] annual memorial of the events of Jesus’ dying and rising (Bishops’ Committee on the Liturgy Newsletter, March 1980, p. 12).Seders arranged at or in cooperation with local synagogues are encouraged.

I think that shows that you attending a Seder that your family celebrates is in no way a sin.

 

[baylee]

This is what the USCCB’s document ***“God’s Mercy Endures Forever: Guidelines on the Presentation of Jews and Judaism in Catholic Preaching” ***says about Seders:
I think that shows that you attending a Seder that your family celebrates is in no way a sin.

Thanks Phemie. Unfortunately, I think my husband would see the date on that (1980) and think…“of course it says it’s okay”. Is there anything out there from before Vatican II? He’ll only listen to something official prior to VII.

 

[baylee]

I, as a child, both before and after my baptism into the Catholic Church, attended many church services conducted by my grandfather, who was a Free Methodist Minister for 55 years. I did this with the full knowledge and approval of my parish priest, and with the dispensation of the Archbishop of San Francisco. This was PRE-VATICAN II folks.

The ONLY thing I could not do was to state their expression of faith, and partake of their communion. But, I was free to attend the services, and I spoke at his funeral, which was conducted by two ministers of that church. I also spoke at his graveside service, and led the “Our Father” there.

Instead of spreading “superstition” to others, how about some reality. It was NEVER considered a sin to participate in a Seder, which under Jewish rules ALWAYS takes place in a home, and never in the Temple.

It was only when I went to Seminary myself that I learned what the official teachings of the church were. And I went PRE-VATICAN II, to the Passionist’s. They were hardly a “liberal” organization back then.

This is good to know, but it is also interesting that you needed a dispensation from the bishop…that leads me to believe there was more to this pre-Vatican II. Maybe not at the level of sin, but there does seem to be something more to it.