Is it a sin to believe that only Catholics go to heaven..?

[DominionKing]

I AM the temple.

 

[Robert_Burns]

There have been alot of Catholics throughout history, and even some today who believe that only Catholics, exclusively, can go to heaven…

Are these Catholics living in sin…?

The answer lies not in who goes to heaven but rather in how you defined who is or isnt a Catholic and when. A Deathbed conversion for example. Or a lifelong Protestant who didnt go along with any of the Protestant errors and thus didnt necessarily disagree with the Catholic Church as a result. Or someone oblivious of the Catholic Church who qualifies under the parameters of Natural law.

Some people would say all of these people can be considered Catholic and some would say they arent.

So , I suppose my answer would be - Define what you mean by " Catholic. "

 

[Roy5]

** I can’t claim to know that much about heaven**. My guess is that it probably is a place (or state) where doctrine is not important. I’ve always thought that Christ outlined the qualifications to enter quite well in Matt, 25:31-46 and it had little to do with dogma or church affiliation.

** This seems to be a continuing issue on which Catholics are divided.** Most Catholics I know think the old adage that ‘outside the church there is no salvation’ is roughly equivalent to the position taken by al Qaeda without the violence. I mean, really. How arrogant can one get? Only me and my co-religionists can get into heaven??? Silly. No wonder there has been such anti-Catholicism in the world. This tribal mentality is offensive to the overwhelming majority of the world’s population, whether Protestant or Buddhist, Jewish or Muslim, etc.

** I envision heaven as a place where we will meet people of many different faiths who loved God and tried to help others - the substance of Christ’s teaching**. Recheck the parable of the Good Samaritan. When Christ was asked how one could gain eternal life, he said nothing about any church or doctrine. He held up the Good Samaritan as a model and commanded us to go and do likewise.
**
Any effort to demean other religions which also promote love of God and one another is sad - and probably seriously sinful.** Religion should be a bridge and not a barrier. We’ve had far more than enough bigotry and arrogance as a result of prejudice based on faith.

 

[SouthpawLink]

:crying:

Oh, how it hurts to read someone claim that facts change… that something true “HAD TO CHANGE” to “accommodate” error!

There is only 1 Christian Faith. Just as there is only 1 Lord, 1 Baptism…

The Church’s teaching/doctrines DOES NOT CHANGE, nor do her “understandings” of them… especially to accommodate error and heresy!

Ineed. I wish more clerics knew that as well…

 

[Zacdecat]

My understanding is that the teaching of the Church says as much because the Church was founded by Jesus Christ and its legitimate Head on Earth is the Pope…and so it goes on.

I believe that the Lord who can see into mens hearts must be the final arbiter on this. I know when i was at school I was expelled from the religion class for firing up at our teacher when this was said that only a good Catholic good go to heaven…my mother is a Lutheran you see and I found it very offensive.

 

[Robert_Burns]

My understanding is that the teaching of the Church says as much because the Church was founded by Jesus Christ and its legitimate Head on Earth is the Pope…and so it goes on.

I believe that the Lord who can see into mens hearts must be the final arbiter on this. I know when i was at school I was expelled from the religion class for firing up at our teacher when this was said that only a good Catholic good go to heaven…my mother is a Lutheran you see and I found it very offensive.

Well lets take what you just said and expand it. You say your Mother is a “Lutheran” but do you know what she believes? Her inner most thoughts? Luther was a heretic - does she adhere to every point of the complaints nailed to the door of Wittenburg Castle? If you can honestly say that your Mother believes everything that Luther believed as opposed to Pope St Pius the V and the Council of Trent and then you want to make a case for your Mothers salvation then I’d say you have an uphill battle. But since you have no way to really determine what your mother actually believes , unlike the Lord Jesus who can see into the Hearts and Souls and Thoughts of Men - then we really wont ever be able to determine on a case by case basis who is or isnt saved. So the Church instead lays out the ground rules in what is wholly Contained in the Deposit of Faith as guided through the Centuries by the Holy Ghost. With this guidance she lays the groundwork for men to Attain Salvation in what is GOD’S Revelation to men. I think today many people take what the Church Teaches and try to bend it to fit their own version of Salvation. The Church has the Lawful authority from GOD to teach revealtion in his name. Luther , never did.

Therein lies the entire difference. So can your Mother attain Salvation based upon her Lutherin Beliefs? Or is it possible she can save her soul Despite them? Isnt that the real argument?

 

[TEPO]

** This seems to be a continuing issue on which Catholics are divided.** Most Catholics I know think the old adage that ‘outside the church there is no salvation’ is roughly equivalent to the position taken by al Qaeda without the violence. I mean, really. How arrogant can one get? Only me and my co-religionists can get into heaven??? Silly. No wonder there has been such anti-Catholicism in the world. This tribal mentality is offensive to the overwhelming majority of the world’s population, whether Protestant or Buddhist, Jewish or Muslim, etc.

So I’m assuming you must also disagree that the Jews were Gods chosen people before Christ.?

Why then should we even believe in the God of Abraham at all -if He’s not an equal-opportunity God?

 

[TEPO]

Why believe in Jesus, if He claims to be the same as this God of Abraham?

 

[JRPO]

** I can’t claim to know that much about heaven**. My guess is that it probably is a place (or state) where doctrine is not important. I’ve always thought that Christ outlined the qualifications to enter quite well in Matt, 25:31-46 and it had little to do with dogma or church affiliation.

** This seems to be a continuing issue on which Catholics are divided.** Most Catholics I know think the old adage that ‘outside the church there is no salvation’ is roughly equivalent to the position taken by al Qaeda without the violence. I mean, really. How arrogant can one get? Only me and my co-religionists can get into heaven??? Silly. No wonder there has been such anti-Catholicism in the world. This tribal mentality is offensive to the overwhelming majority of the world’s population, whether Protestant or Buddhist, Jewish or Muslim, etc.

** I envision heaven as a place where we will meet people of many different faiths who loved God and tried to help others - the substance of Christ’s teaching**. Recheck the parable of the Good Samaritan. When Christ was asked how one could gain eternal life, he said nothing about any church or doctrine. He held up the Good Samaritan as a model and commanded us to go and do likewise.
**
Any effort to demean other religions which also promote love of God and one another is sad - and probably seriously sinful.** Religion should be a bridge and not a barrier. We’ve had far more than enough bigotry and arrogance as a result of prejudice based on faith.

The words of the Catholic Church are the words of God. Human beings did not create the Catholic church and its teachings. Not even The Pope can change the teachings of the catholic church. The son of God Jesus Christ said he is the saviour. Thats not the claim of us human beings so you’ll have to go take it up with Jesus talk to him its his church.
No good talking about Samaritans thats only one small part of what Jesus said. He said alot more than that.

 

[MGLechner]

Outside the Church there is no salvation…
This would include all baptized members whether they were baptized in the Catholic Church, or the Orthodox Church or the Baptist Church…etc. This is because the Catholic Church recognizes all those baptisms as legitimate. There is the Church Militant (the physical, visible Church here on earth) and then there is the Church Triumphant (which is comprised of those either in purgatory or Heaven). Not all those in the Church Militant are necessarily saved (The Wheat and the Tares)…but all those who comprise the Church Triumphant are saved. So yes, I would say it is heretical to believe that you have to belong exclusively to the Roman Catholic Church in order to be saved.

 

[poker10]

OK I know you’re a wee bit “tongue in cheek” here, but Ann Catherine Emmerich or S. Lydwine of Sweden (I always get them mixed up), from her extensive visions of Heaven, stated that the Feasts are indeed celebrated in Heaven. Her visions are definitely not mere videos: when she saw the Nativity, it was as if she was there and could talk to Mary & Joseph, for example) … but she described her visions of the Keeping of Feasts as though each one were like a huge Cathedral on a floating island. Each one was identified in some way with the Roman Calendar, and the Feasts of OUr Lady or Our Lord were seen to be connected in some way with the Incarnation or the Passion, but the idea seemed to be that you could just drop in on them. I have wondered before if the experience of “aevum” in Heaven (the state of souls in Heaven that replaces “time”) would be something like this. You could ‘drop ion on’ certain events and places.

Also, it is remarked that Heaven before and after the Last Judgment will not be identical. Heaven at present is in touch with this world of Time. And we are the Church Militant. Certain things are there in our lives to prepare us for Heaven; those who get there will find the fruits of their labour, united with God’s Grace. There will presumably not be fasting, but the soul will benefit eternally from the good that cam to it from the discipline of fasting.

I get the impression, poker10, that maybe you weren’t taught the theology of the tripatite nature of the Church: the Church Militant, the Church Suffering and the Church Triumphant. It is all contained in that.

Yes, my reply was meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Thanks for noticing. I have heard of the heaven visions, but they’re not really anything that’s required for us to believe…so I reserve my judgment to “who knows” what it will be like in heaven. I did like the idea they showed on the final episode of “Lost” where everyone you know is already in heaven when you get there because it is “beyond time.” For example, you could die and your grandchildren would already be there. I thought it was interesting, anyway.

 

[Zacdecat]

Well lets take what you just said and expand it. You say your Mother is a “Lutheran” but do you know what she believes? Her inner most thoughts?
Therein lies the entire difference. So can your Mother attain Salvation based upon her Lutherin Beliefs? Or is it possible she can save her soul Despite them? Isnt that the real argument?

I cannot answer that of course, but I do pray for her every day. She is a committed Christian.

I heard somewhere that the Pope has unhereticted ( I know that ain’t the right word but ???) Luther…is this true and is it possible?? It sounds bizarre to me anyhow.

 

[Robert_Burns]

Outside the Church there is no salvation…
This would include all baptized members whether they were baptized in the Catholic Church, or the Orthodox Church or the Baptist Church…etc. This is because the Catholic Church recognizes all those baptisms as legitimate. There is the Church Militant (the physical, visible Church here on earth) and then there is the Church Triumphant (which is comprised of those either in purgatory or Heaven). Not all those in the Church Militant are necessarily saved (The Wheat and the Tares)…but all those who comprise the Church Triumphant are saved. So yes, I would say it is heretical to believe that you have to belong exclusively to the Roman Catholic Church in order to be saved.

EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS is Dogma. That being said , many people misunderstand what is meant by it. All Souls pass through the Catholic Church on their way to heaven. The merits are those that enjoin the Catholic Church which teaches in Union with GOD the Fullness of Truth. That Truth is shared. Therefore the merit of the Truth itself conjoins the Catholic Faith. So a person is not saved by the Merits of a False religion , but rather , because he is living in GOD’S Truth which is conjoined to the Catholic faith at all times.

That is as simple as I can make it.

 

[7rosario]

eens123.blogspot.com/2010/01/st-francis-xaviers-letter.html

 

[numealinesimpet]

** I can’t claim to know that much about heaven**. My guess is that it probably is a place (or state) where doctrine is not important. I’ve always thought that Christ outlined the qualifications to enter quite well in Matt, 25:31-46 and it had little to do with dogma or church affiliation.

But “doctrine” simply means “teaching”. In Heaven we (at least I hope it’ll be “we”!) will not need teaching, because we will see the Real Thing. And I’m afraid the Mithra-ites (if that’s their name) and the Greek-and-Roman pagans, and others who have been admitted in God’s Providence, will find that there was no Mithras as such, no Pallas Athene as such, but that all that was good about these false ideas exists in the real God. and the Baptists and Presbyterians will find that Our Lady really is queen of Heaven, and there really is a Purgatory. And so on. In that sense, yes, they will be Catholics when they are there.

** This seems to be a continuing issue on which Catholics are divided.** Most Catholics I know think the old adage that ‘outside the church there is no salvation’ is roughly equivalent to the position taken by al Qaeda without the violence. I mean, really. How arrogant can one get? Only me and my co-religionists can get into heaven??? Silly. No wonder there has been such anti-Catholicism in the world. This tribal mentality is offensive to the overwhelming majority of the world’s population, whether Protestant or Buddhist, Jewish or Muslim, etc. All that would be true, perhaps, if we did not get some of these beliefs straight from the mouth of Our Lord, and the others from His Vicar on Earth. If a Moslem is admitted by God’s hidden Providence into Heaven, where he will see all the Catholic truths for himself, I don’t think he’ll be offended, I think he’ll be relieved and grateful.

** I envision heaven as a place where we will meet people of many different faiths who loved God and tried to help others - the substance of Christ’s teaching**. Recheck the parable of the Good Samaritan. When Christ was asked how one could gain eternal life, he said nothing about any church or doctrine. He held up the Good Samaritan as a model and commanded us to go and do likewise.
**In one place yes, but in other places Christ said nothing about that, but said “he who believes will be saved; he who does not believe will be condemned”. He does not say everything all the time.

Any effort to demean other religions which also promote love of God and one another is sad - and probably seriously sinful.

**It is not demeaning but charitable to tell someone when he is wrong. Of course, the manner of the telling can be anything from heart-meltingly loving to cold and cutting –*but the fact of the correction is an act of charity.

Religion should be a bridge and not a barrier.

Well, the ‘Bridge’ is the Pontiff – that’s what the word means. And Christ said, “do not imagine I have come to bring peace to the world. I have come to bring not peace but a sword.” And He went on to expand that in great detail.

We’ve had far more than enough bigotry and arrogance as a result of prejudice based on faith.

That’s as a result of Original Sin, with its darkening of the intellet and increase in the power of the passions over the reason, coupled with the fact that the religious sense in the human being is one of the most potent forces. That last sentence, I believe, is straight Catholic teaching.

 

[numealinesimpet]

Sorry! I was called away before I could correct the formatting of the previous posting.

 

[Robert_Burns]

But “doctrine” simply means “teaching”. In Heaven we (at least I hope it’ll be “we”!) will not need teaching, because we will see the Real Thing. And I’m afraid the Mithra-ites (if that’s their name) and the Greek-and-Roman pagans, and others who have been admitted in God’s Providence, will find that there was no Mithras as such, no Pallas Athene as such, but that all that was good about these false ideas exists in the real God. and the Baptists and Presbyterians will find that Our Lady really is queen of Heaven, and there really is a Purgatory. And so on. In that sense, yes, they will be Catholics when they are there.

** This seems to be a continuing issue on which Catholics are divided.** Most Catholics I know think the old adage that ‘outside the church there is no salvation’ is roughly equivalent to the position taken by al Qaeda without the violence. I mean, really. How arrogant can one get? Only me and my co-religionists can get into heaven??? Silly. No wonder there has been such anti-Catholicism in the world. This tribal mentality is offensive to the overwhelming majority of the world’s population, whether Protestant or Buddhist, Jewish or Muslim, etc.

All that would be true, perhaps, if we did not get some of these beliefs straight from the mouth of Our Lord, and the others from His Vicar on Earth. If a Moslem is admitted by God’s hidden Providence into Heaven, where he will see all the Catholic truths for himself, I don’t think he’ll be offended, I think he’ll be relieved and grateful.

** I envision heaven as a place where we will meet people of many different faiths who loved God and tried to help others - the substance of Christ’s teaching**. Recheck the parable of the Good Samaritan. When Christ was asked how one could gain eternal life, he said nothing about any church or doctrine. He held up the Good Samaritan as a model and commanded us to go and do likewise.
**In one place yes, but in other places Christ said nothing about that, but said “he who believes will be saved; he who does not believe will be condemned”. He does not say everything all the time.

It is not demeaning but charitable to tell someone when he is wrong.  Of course, the manner of the telling can be anything from heart-meltingly loving to cold and cutting –*but the fact of the correction is an act of charity.Well, the 'Bridge' is the Pontiff – that's what the word means.  And Christ said, "do not imagine I have come to bring peace to the world.  I have come to bring not peace but a sword." And He went on to expand that in great detail. That's as a result of Original Sin, with its darkening of the intellet and increase in the power of the passions over the reason, coupled with the fact that the religious sense in the human being is one of the most potent forces.  That last sentence, I believe, is straight Catholic teaching.**

I think you have a faulty understanding of what is meant by there is no salvation outside the Catholic Religion.

When Catholics say we possess the fullness of Truth it means exactly that. That the Catholic Church begun by GOD (Jesus in the Second person of the Holy Trinity) and guided since Pentecost Sunday (By the Holy Ghost the third person of the Holy Trinity) means exactly that we have the Revelation of GOD. No other religion possesses that Trait. Period. We are not arrogant for recognising that JESUS is the Messiah. GOD revealed that fact to Mankind directly. Even the Jews who awaited the Messiah do not posess the fullness since they do not possess the teachings of the Messiah and the holy Ghost which was revealed by GOD the Father to them and to the Gentiles subsequently.

This fullness of Truth is the Deposit of Faith.

Even Vatican II in opening up the possibility of salvation outside the Faith admits that only those religions who SHARE in that TRUTH have that ability. Heretics are deniers of truth.

A False religion will contain man made falsehoods not of GOD. therefore - they are at the disadvantage because of that fact.

So if member of those religions attain salvation - they do so in spite of those errors. The truths which are wholy contained in the Catholic Church cannot be separated from the Catholic church as they come from GOD and are sustained by GOD hense the power of the Papacy in infallibility from the Chair of st Peter.

Those religions outside of the Catholic religion may have members who are saved - but they are not saved out of the merit of that Religion itself - but rather - because those individuals embraced the truths from GOD and rejected the errors of men.

I think you need to understand the Theology of Vatican II. It is in the SHARED Truths that their salvation is possible but there is no error in Catholicism. No other religion can make that claim.

 

[numealinesimpet]

All that would be true, perhaps, if we did not get some of these beliefs straight from the mouth of Our Lord, and the others from His Vicar on Earth. If a Moslem is admitted by God’s hidden Providence into Heaven, where he will see all the Catholic truths for himself, I don’t think he’ll be offended, I think he’ll be relieved and grateful.

 

[MusicforMovies]

Extra Ecclesia Nulla Salus (outside the Church there is no salvation) is an infallible teaching of the Church. However, Feeneyism (only those physically baptized by water explicitly into the Catholic Church can be saved) is a heresy.

So, believe that the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation, and leave it to God to determine if one fits the mark of invincible ignorance.

Best answer to this question I’ve heard in long time.

Thanks.
Peace in Christ,
Joel

 

[Robert_Burns]

Sorry, but because of the faulty formatting of my previous post, I am not sure whether you are addressing me or the Original Poster, or which comments are yours.

Sorry - My post should have begun with the Words “I Think you have”