Is it a sin to denounce or condemn the Pope?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Charlotte408
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

You may want to ask the brothers in my community first. They may have a different opinion. They elected me the regional superior on Pentecost Sunday. Two days later I was calling some to task about different things and imposing penances. I think they’re probably asking if it’s a sin to denounce their superior. :confused:

On a more serious note, by greatest concern regarding my brothers has nothing to do with the liturgy. It has to do with obedience. If one is obedient, everything else falls into place. We must learn to obey as Christ obeyed: without anger, resentment and reservations of any kind. We must learn to accept difficulties as Mary did at the foot of the cross. While her son hung dying she accepted his assasins as her children. THAT kind of immaculate love is the result of a truly loving obedience obedience to the will of God. I call it “obedience that is diercted by interior silence.”

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
true. i think thats whats lacking even for the people in our faith today. we always suspect a grand evil scheme behind almost anything. we can’t accept something for what it is and always believe in conspiracy. i fully, totally agree that obedience is lacking today, and the sad thing is that its not only happening in secular society, its happening within our Church as well. the Pope’s hand has been forced to allow abuses, the Pope authorized pedophelia, the Pope did this and did that, etc. why can’t people just believe what is being said and submit themselves fully and humbly to the person the Holy Spirit has chosen to lead us in our faith?
 
true. i think thats whats lacking even for the people in our faith today. we always suspect a grand evil scheme behind almost anything. we can’t accept something for what it is and always believe in conspiracy. i fully, totally agree that obedience is lacking today, and the sad thing is that its not only happening in secular society, its happening within our Church as well. the Pope’s hand has been forced to allow abuses, the Pope authorized pedophelia, the Pope did this and did that, etc. why can’t people just believe what is being said and submit themselves fully and humbly to the person the Holy Spirit has chosen to lead us in our faith?
It is true that we live in a world of conspiracies, some real and others imagined. However, human beings have the right to their good name and to the gift of life. To get back to the topic of this thread, to denounce someone is to attack their good name. This is contrary to the law of justice. Therefore, it constitutes of grave act of disobedience to the Will of God.

As I always tell our Franciscan Brothers of Life, “Never forget Christ’s last prayer for humanity. ‘Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.’ “ Christ’s last dying act was not to denounce, but to pray for forgiveness on behalf of those who do not ask for forgiveness on their own. Only when we learn to pray for those whom we believe have sinned or for those who have actually sinned, will we be one step closer to becoming like the Crucified Christ.

I tell the Franciscan Brothers of Life that the object of their life as brothers is not to complain and condemn, but to achieve sanctity by embracing the cross, as our Holy Father Francis embraced it. When a Brother of Life looks at the cross, he does not see condemnation on the faces of Jesus and Mary. He sees compassion. We have in our chapel the icon of San Damiano, which is a copy of the one that spoke to St. Francis. I often sit there for hours and look at its face. There is something wonderful about it.

Jesus is not hanging his head with his eyes closed. Instead he is looking straight at me with his eyes wide open, almost as if to say, “I’m here for you. This is my life that I give so that you may bring life to others.” Condemnation always precedes execution, not life. As a Brother of Life, Christ has called me to share the life that he has given up for me, not to condemn those for whom that life is intended.

To go about condemning, judging, criticizing, comparing what need not be compared, is contrary to the cross. The cross was the site of great compassion, forgiveness, generosity, understanding, and hope for humanity. Jesus gives his mother a fallen humanity as her children, because he trusts that humanity will rise to the occasion. There is no way that he would give his mother dead children. He gives her children that have great potential. He makes her the mother of children who are gifted with life, his life, the life that pours out of his side shortly after he says, “It is finished.”

As a Brother of Life, my obedience must shine through by complying with the will of the Father at Calvary. It was the Father’s will that all may have life and have it in abundance. The only way that could happen was to pour it upon humanity from the side of Christ. That’s why we see water and blood. Water and blood are life sustaining forces. When we transmit that life to others, rather than condemn them, when he hope and pray for that life to become visible in others, rather than hold them suspect of every malevolent thing that happens in the world or the Church, then we are obeying the Will of the Father. It is the Father’s will that all may live, even those who have sinned. We should Will nothing else for our brothers and sisters, except Life.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
On a more serious note, by greatest concern regarding my brothers has nothing to do with the liturgy. It has to do with obedience. If one is obedient, everything else falls into place.
Very wise words, sir - very wise.

As I struggle to pick up where I left off after my 3-4 year apostasy, I recall what it was like to assent in pure obedience and trust. Everything really and truly felt as if it had fallen into place, and nothing about the Faith was unclear, except that which was beyond my mortal mind to grasp.

Those were perhaps the finest three sentences I have read all day 👍
 
Is it a sin to denounce or condemn the Pope?

Only God may judge individuals.

However, in the past some Popes (very few) were denounced by the church, and two or three were removed in the past for various reasons, possibly not justified.

Of course, that was before, now it is (as some have said) impossible to remove a Pope who does not wish to go.

I don’t think that the recent scandals are the personal fault of any one recent bishop of Rome. It is more of a systemic problem, that being a lack of transparency in the modern church. This is the same kind of closed system that sometimes allows for corrupt police departments and crooked labor unions, that sort of thing.

In the early church there was far more transparency, and local bishops were answerable to the local synods who selected them.
 
From the rotating “Catholic Quotes” in the upper right corner of this page:

“If the pope is rejected, it follows that not one bishop, but the whole episcopate threatens to fall.”
– Avitus, Bishop of Vienne; writing about A.D. 520.
 
From the rotating “Catholic Quotes” in the upper right corner of this page:

“If the pope is rejected, it follows that not one bishop, but the whole episcopate threatens to fall.”
– Avitus, Bishop of Vienne; writing about A.D. 520.
I don’t think that the original question was whether or not we can reject the pope. It was weather or not we can denounce and condemn him. The fact is that we can denounce and condemn sin and sinful “values.” I deliberately put that word in quotation marks. We cannot denounce and condemn people. They are our brothers and sisters and we are all sinners.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I don’t think that the original question was whether or not we can reject the pope. It was weather or not we can denounce and condemn him. The fact is that we can denounce and condemn sin and sinful “values.” I deliberately put that word in quotation marks. We cannot denounce and condemn people. They are our brothers and sisters and we are all sinners.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
It might be a matter of semantics. I would only say that, if one speaks condemnation before one knows the truth, it functions as a type of rejection. As well, I am not certain of the context within which Bishop Avitus used the term “rejected”, but it appears potentially applicable to the premise of this thread.

The world has churned up precious little evidence, let alone proof, of any wrongdoing at all - except by those who committed the abuse, and some around them. Much of this papal criticism is a result of our consumer-driven society in which we simply discard or return items which do not suit us. As with so much else, it is ego driven.
 
Many Jews had more hatred than those they denounced. Read the Gospels.
You are just avoiding an answer! You made accusations and then you tell me to read the Gospel to understand what the Jews did. That has no correlation at all with my statement and our comments to my post.
 
I don’t think that the original question was whether or not we can reject the pope. It was weather or not we can denounce and condemn him. The fact is that we can denounce and condemn sin and sinful “values.” I deliberately put that word in quotation marks. We cannot denounce and condemn people. They are our brothers and sisters and we are all sinners.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
***Abrenuntiátis Sátanæ?

.***
 
Is it a sin to denounce or condemn the Pope?

Only God may judge individuals.

However, in the past some Popes (very few) were denounced by the church, and two or three were removed in the past for various reasons, possibly not justified.

I’m thinking that you are wrong here, as there is no authority above the Pope on this earth. Once a man is elected Pope he can only be validly removed from office by voluntary resignation or death. There is no impeachment procedure for Popes. Bad Popes were not removed from office because of the reason above. Also, in the middle ages most people were unaware of a Pope’s character because until recently news would travel very slowly and inaccurately. Further, who would determine if a Pope was to be removed? What would constitute an impeachable offense?
 
I was having a conversation with an Atheist…and…he was going off about the Pope allowing for the rape of boys saying that since I was catholic, I had a hand in it because we haven’t denounced the Pope…

Then he said, if I dont approve of the molestation or rape of children, then for me to denounce and condemn the Pope.
Wait a minute. He expects you to condemn the Pope because he failed to judge particular situations accurately and has since apologized for such failure to lead?
I dont approve or allow for the child molestation or rape of kids…but I felt I was in some sort of catch 22- like that mueslim girl who refused to condemn hamas:
Not even comparable. The Pope had a negligible role in the recent scandal; nonetheless he has still apologized for his peripheral involvement thereof. H.A.M.A.S. is a terrorist organization which by its very charter calls for the destruction of Israel and the death of all Jews. A Palestinian who refuses to renounce H.A.M.A.S. is an idiot while a Catholic who refuses to denounce the Pope is a reasonable person capable of critical thought and able to distinguish between a humbly apologetic third party and an antagonistic, terroristic, genocidal organization.
Is it a sin, to condemn or denounce the Pope???
No it is not assuming he is worthy of such condemnation. There of course have been some very evil Popes in history, some of whom it would behoove a good Catholic to approach even if that meant martyring oneself for the cause (this has happened before. See: St. Joan of Arc for example). I don’t believe our current pontiff is deserving of such castigation. Maybe I’m wrong, and I’m certainly open to correction. But the evidence is simply not to be had.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top