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bobzills
Guest
I was wrong. I originally misread your response. Another poster brought up the idea of the bishops and Marxism and I only meant to say that the Church had previously taught that Marxist communism was wrong.
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verdigirl
Guest
Thank you, Bob. You are right.
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bobzills
Guest
Either by Greyhound bus or Amtrak.
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verdigirl
Guest
Who would pay for that, especially now that there’s a war on? And what about the kids who are American citizens? Will you put them in state-funded orphanages?
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bobzills
Guest
I thought that we had agreed that Catholic principles demand that we reunite the families. So if this is what is demanded by the Church, then I guess that we are morally obligated to send all the children home with their parents.
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bobzills
Guest
The illegal alien should pay for his own ticket and for the tickets of each one of his family members.
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verdigirl
Guest
You’re being facetious, and you’re not being charitable at all.
That suggestion offends me, as a Hispanic woman. Why would you even suggest that a certain segment of the American citizenry have their rights stripped simply because of the national origin of their parents?
Do you understand the constitutional precedent that would be opened up to any podunk White supremacist…to expel those of us they don’t like on account of our ethnicity? They would start with first-generation American citizens like me.
Then all the ethnic Catholics, like Italians and Poles, would be next. Is that the snowball effect that you’re looking for?
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verdigirl
Guest
Now who in their right mind would pay for their own ticket if they’re being deported? Would you?
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verdigirl
Guest
You are purposely ignoring the Church teaching I’ve included, and in my opinion, you are purposely ignoring the Catechism and the work Pope Paul VI. You don’t have to agree to encyclicals, but you do have to ASSENT.
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bobzills
Guest
Because of what you say about the Church demands that the families be reunited.
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bobzills
Guest
The fact is that according to Catholic teaching, as it has been taught using the Baltimore Catechism, Catholics must respect and obey the lawful authority of our country because it comes from God. This is according to the Commandment: Honor thy father and thy mother, which includes the command to obey the laws of the country. Illegal aliens are not repecting the immigration laws of the USA. In that sense they are criminals.
There is no moral obligation on the part of anyone to advocate open borders for a country.
What you are advocating is prudential and political, and there are Catholics who agree with you and there are Catholics who disagree with you. Since it is Catholic teaching that Catholics must respect and obey the lawful authority of a country, Catholics are not obligated to adopt your opinion on a prudential or a political issue such as this.
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Al_Masetti
Guest
They are only advocating open borders for the United States.
It’s ok, according to them, for every other country to closely control their borders.
It’s ok, according to them, for every other country to closely control their borders.
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thedavidwilson
Guest
"to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin."
We do welcome foriegners. We welcom about a million a year…LEGALLY. If that amount is not enough we should work to increase that amount not dieregard the rule of law. What you are suggesting is akin to ignoring bank robbery’s becasue the people robbing the banks are poor. Yes they should receive a reduce punishment but you still need to maintain the rule and law. What you should be doing is trying to alleviate the poverty.
***“to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens”***Doesn’t the first act of an illegal immigrant when he enters this country violate this rule? Don’t they violate this rule if they get false documents or steal someone’s social security number? If they don’t steal someones SS# are they not supporting the social service they use (schools, roads, hospitals) becasue they are on a cash system?
"social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible."88 This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger, or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values."
Sooo why don’t we address the real problem. Mexico’s corruption and failed socialism is what is causing the poverty and making people want to flee their country. It is mexico that is benfiting form the $20billion that illegals send back home each year. It is the employers in the US who are benefiting from a virtual slave class. It seems if ignore the rule of immigration law and not address the above problems you are just enabling mexico and employers to continue to exploit these people.
We need to change the law while still upholding it, not disregard it.
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thedavidwilson
Guest
My dear Verdigirl, This is not about race, it is about the rule of law. You pulling the race card just shows the weakness of your arguement. If I robbed a bank my kids would be put into foster care unless there was someone to take care of them. I think for illegals the besting is to send the kids home to the parents because they are able to take care of them. If they are not then they should put them in foster care if they want the kids to stay in the US (if there is no one else available). Since the kids are US citizens they are welcome to return when they are adults or able to. No rights are being stripped nor is anyone suggesting that.
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blacktiger057
Guest
If we let everyone into this country, we’d have an exetremely high tax, everyone on the streets, an economy crash, among other things. America would not be great anymore.
Illegal are putting people out of jobs, thus increasing poverty levels greatly. I’ve lost about six lawnmowing jobs to illegals, because they do it for ten dollars less than I do! I know these are illegal because I reported them and all but one of them has been deported. It is really a growing problem. Nations have bordrers for a reason!
Illegal are putting people out of jobs, thus increasing poverty levels greatly. I’ve lost about six lawnmowing jobs to illegals, because they do it for ten dollars less than I do! I know these are illegal because I reported them and all but one of them has been deported. It is really a growing problem. Nations have bordrers for a reason!
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Ender
Guest
Perhaps you missed the part of my post where I exempted from this discussion those illegals who are actually here as a matter of survival. I think that number is small but whatever the size I want to focus on those who are here who don’t fall in that category.
Those in the latter group are sinning because they are facilitating the sins of the employers who knowingly hire them in order to exploit them to economic advantage. Anyone who facilitates the sins of another formally cooperates in that sin and guilty of sin as well. Do you at least acknowledge this?
You have? Excellent - please let me know the paragraph that says someone has a moral right to illegally sneak into another country. Short of an explicit quote to that affect, I disagree with your personal interpretation that such a conclusion is implied.
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tpw
Guest
Perhaps it’s illegal - that doesn’t mean it’s immoral.
One would have to know how immigration law if formed. In this country its by quota. Each country is alloted a quota each year.
This of course raises the question on what criteria are the quota based? As of 2004 English speaking countries from Europe were more welcome than others. Why? Ancestry primarily. Now does that mean it’s just? It’s a big, big question.
And also keep in mind those who seek asylum are not necessarily treated fairly or justly.
An exile from Cuba might be accepted whereas an exile from another Latin American country might not - even though his or her life may be in jepoardy.
One would have to know how immigration law if formed. In this country its by quota. Each country is alloted a quota each year.
This of course raises the question on what criteria are the quota based? As of 2004 English speaking countries from Europe were more welcome than others. Why? Ancestry primarily. Now does that mean it’s just? It’s a big, big question.
And also keep in mind those who seek asylum are not necessarily treated fairly or justly.
An exile from Cuba might be accepted whereas an exile from another Latin American country might not - even though his or her life may be in jepoardy.
YES. It is illegal and it is a sin. If that were not the case, DH and I would have saved thousands of dollars, time and worry and frustration, and just had him come here illegally from England. We were even offered a way by an immigration attorney to “get around the system” by doing just that and “fixing” things once he got here. I was completely disgusted at the mere suggesting.
Yes - it is absolutely illegal. If we can do it the right way, so can others.
In the instance of persecution or other evils, there are ways to seek assylum LEGALLY. No excuses.
~Liza
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chain
Guest
Immigration laws to some degree are necessary to protect the country and the immigrants. Unbridled immigration can destroy the society that the immigrants are attempting to join.
I think it might be a sin. Is stealing bread for a starving child a sin? I suspect it is, if you could have worked for the bread instead.
a few years back I had friends who immigrated for Scotland. He was routinely mistreated by his employer - who could have pulled their support of his work visa. They strung him out for all of the several years I knew him - including the promise of helping his wife also get a work visa (he was a chip engineer - forgot what her degree was in).
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aspawloski4th
Guest
Simple answer to the original question. Yes!
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chain
Guest
As far the issue with the children. The law stated that children born here legal are citizens, but it was interpreted by politicians to be simply born here. The net effect is to use children to reward those who come illegally here.
Reward those who follow the law, not those who flaunt it. Flashing a race card is simply saying one race is above the law - privileged rights rather than equal rights.
Reward those who follow the law, not those who flaunt it. Flashing a race card is simply saying one race is above the law - privileged rights rather than equal rights.
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