Is it a sin to impregnate your wife when you are no longer happily married?

[dianaballein]

WOW…there was no anger in my post…just a caution to tread lightly when involving yourself in someone else’s marriage. I have seen friendships damaged by well-intentioned advice that offends one side of a couple or the other–particularly after the much-hoped for reconcilliation is achieved. Do as you wish…but if you ask for advice on an open forum, you just might receive some that doesn’t agree with what you want. It doesn’t mean there was any anger or ill will involved. Good luck wherever you fit in this puzzle.

You can’t hear voice tone in email responses. You came across as angry. I appreciate advice. You basically told me to butt out. That was unnecessary.

 

[dianaballein]

There doesn’t seem to be any intent to do harm here. There just seems intent to create a child. Might not be prudent if there is no will to improve the marriage but not sinful.

Have they tried Retrouvaille? A lot of people do well with that when counseling has failed.

Thank you everyone for all of the advice. I think we can all agree that it has been clarified as NOT A SIN. That was my main concern for these people.

God Bless.

 

[PRmerger]

The question might also be construed as: is it a sin to enjoy the one-flesh-union when you are no longer happily married?

My thoughts on this are to express it as an analogy to the Eucharist. If one is not “happily married” to Jesus, that is, not in full communion with His Church as His bride, then I believe one ought not receive communion.

Similarly, I believe if you are no longer happily married, you ought not enjoy the marital embrace until you restore your relationship.

 

[yellowbird]

Similarly, I believe if you are no longer happily married, you ought not enjoy the marital embrace until you restore your relationship.

Disagree. Sometimes this is what held us together.

Besides, I can’t imagine my husband being willing to hear me out or work on our marriage if I’m withholding the “marital embrace.”

 

[PRmerger]

Disagree. Sometimes this is what held us together.

Besides, I can’t imagine my husband being willing to hear me out or work on our marriage if I’m withholding the “marital embrace.”

Ok. I can see that.

But would you receive communion if you were not in a good relationship at the time with our Lord?

 

[yellowbird]

Ok. I can see that.

But would you receive communion if you were not in a good relationship at the time with our Lord?

Good question. I suppose it depends on how you define “good relationship” with our Lord? If you mean, am I living a life of unrepentent sin, the answer is no, I would not receive communion. Or have I rejected the teachings of His Church? Then no, I should not receive.

However, there are times when I am not really “feeling” my Catholic faith. I am not praying as I should - I am not attending mass other than on Sunday and even that’s just becauase I’m forcing myself to go. Sometimes I hit VERY dry spells in my faith. But I still receive Jesus in the Eucharist because I think it’s during those times, more than ever that I need the graces. I often wonder if the Eucharist is what gets me back on track where I need to be spiritually?

Likewise when I’m not feeling all warm & fuzzy toward my husband. When I look at him and think, “ehh? I wonder if I could’ve done better than you?” (And he’s thinking the same of me!) It’s during those VERY dry patches in our marriage that the marital embrance holds us together. Sometimes it seems like the ONLY thing that we’ve got that’s still good.

I think I’d be a fool to give up either.

 

[PRmerger]

Good question. I suppose it depends on how you define “good relationship” with our Lord? If you mean, am I living a life of unrepentent sin, the answer is no, I would not receive communion. Or have I rejected the teachings of His Church? Then no, I should not receive.

However, there are times when I am not really “feeling” my Catholic faith. I am not praying as I should - I am not attending mass other than on Sunday and even that’s just becauase I’m forcing myself to go. Sometimes I hit VERY dry spells in my faith. But I still receive Jesus in the Eucharist because I think it’s during those times, more than ever that I need the graces. I often wonder if the Eucharist is what gets me back on track where I need to be spiritually?

Likewise when I’m not feeling all warm & fuzzy toward my husband. When I look at him and think, “ehh? I wonder if I could’ve done better than you?” (And he’s thinking the same of me!) It’s during those VERY dry patches in our marriage that the marital embrance holds us together. Sometimes it seems like the ONLY thing that we’ve got that’s still good.

I think I’d be a fool to give up either.

Point taken. Both the marital embrace and Holy Communion are needed even during such dry patches.

 

[sherimarie]

Are you close enough to them to ask what they are doing to not have a baby?
The reason i ask is because of the detrimental aspects of contraception. This could be the root of their problem and perhaps much of their angst could be relieved by them learning NFP. Then their decision to bring another soul into existence would be better talked out at least.

 

[hasikelee]

I think the title sounds arrogant or assumptive.

How do you know they are no longer happy? Perhaps at the time of lovemaking they are happy…hence the commencement of lovemaking.

I was thinking sinful as in a scenario where the man and woman are very unhappy, perhaps considering separation, and one person secretly attempts to do this against the knowledge/wishes of the other spouse. For example, I’ve heard stories of men replacing birth control pills with placebos…but for it to be sinful, the scenario must already contain sin…such is the pathway to more sin, step by step.

 

[yellowbird]

I think the title sounds arrogant or assumptive.

How do you know they are no longer happy? Perhaps at the time of lovemaking they are happy…hence the commencement of lovemaking.

I was thinking sinful as in a scenario where the man and woman are very unhappy, perhaps considering separation, and one person secretly attempts to do this against the knowledge/wishes of the other spouse. For example, I’ve heard stories of men replacing birth control pills with placebos…but for it to be sinful, the scenario must already contain sin…such is the pathway to more sin, step by step.

I hear what you’re saying - we really can’t know if someone is happy - and besides, it’s their business. But in defense of the OP, I’ve had a friend who admitted she was totally miserable in her marriage, they were considering divorce, but decided to go ahead and have a baby to see if that might “fix things.” Not only do I think that’s an AWFUL tactic - (babies, although blessings, are stressful - hello? sleep deprivation?) And besides - what a lot of pressure to put on a child… ok, YOU are going to be the cure all for our crummy marriage… get busy!

So in that case, I think it’s fair to ask if it’s … well, I’m not sure about sinful necessarily - but REALLY stupid to try to have a child? Your example is very similar.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Counseling has been attended, for quite a long time. These dear friends of mine have tried counseling inside and outside of the church with no change in the marriage.

In speaking to one of them, however, the subject came up about a sibling for the other child and I was taken aback because I can’t fathom bringing a baby into an unhappy marriage on purpose.

Definitely a BAAAD sign.

My ex and I were having trouble, and not getting better (the priest/counselor we were seeing finally told me I was wasting my time). She started talking about a sibling for our two boys, the second whom she didn’t want (she would tell people, oblivious to their horror, how she didn’t love him because the other was the one who reminded her of me). I thought, but did not say “why don’t we find out if the marriage is going to last first. For one thing that would mean sex (something gone for almost a year by then).”
Two weeks later she took off with the children and filed for divorce: an old boyfriend (a lovely man, last time she saw him he was beating his wife in public), called her that week and which she took as a sign of God’s favor. She tried to get pregnant with him, who, of course, never did leave his wife and less than a year was gone, leaving the mess behind.

My ex had, actually has, a number of emotional problems. If your friends are contemplating this, they must have some too. An intact family is the best for children, but that is NOT the chidren’s responsibility or purpose.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

As long as they are validly married , this couple is in a marriage state and each spouse might be obligated to provide the marital debt. ( barring any details that might not be included in this thread that defer the marital debt).

Now it might be imprudent but that doesn’t make it a sin.

Marital debt. How romantic.

Yes, it is a sin. In such a situation, it can only be the result of labido, not love.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Newbie2;4241157:

I would wonder about the sex involved in the marriage; if they are no longer happily married, then it becomes more of an act of pleasure or of 'duty", if the purpose was solely to create a new baby.

QUOTE]

Ok, this brings up another point. The act of sex with someone you no longer love…how is that different from being violated?

In many ways, it’s not. Trust me.

 

[yellowbird]

Marital debt. How romantic.

Yes, it is a sin. In such a situation, it can only be the result of labido, not love.

What’s wrong with labido? Must it always be about love? Can’t it be just because you want to?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

What’s wrong with labido? Must it always be about love? Can’t it be just because you want to?

Sure, why not with anyone you want to?

 

[yellowbird]

Sure, why not with anyone you want to?

Because sex outside of marriage is sinful.

I’m not trying to debate you… I’m trying to understand. I could very well be wrong - libido might be sinful… I’ve just not heard that?
(and honestly can’t see why it would be… ? I think we’d be much better off if people stayed in marriages regardles of whether they felt they were “in love.” ask anyone who’s been married 50 years… they’d agree - feelings of love come and go.)

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Because sex outside of marriage is sinful.

I’m not trying to debate you… I’m trying to understand. I could very well be wrong - libido might be sinful… I’ve just not heard that?
(and honestly can’t see why it would be… ? I think we’d be much better off if people stayed in marriages regardles of whether they felt they were “in love.” ask anyone who’s been married 50 years… they’d agree - feelings of love come and go.)

I’m not saying that when the libido is the main driving force. If that was true, all honeymoons, well:blush:

I’m talking about when that is the ONLY thing going on.

In a marriage there is a lot going on, and the proportions will vary over time. It’s when the various elements are falling by the wayside that you have trouble.

 

[dianaballein]

Are you close enough to them to ask what they are doing to not have a baby?
The reason i ask is because of the detrimental aspects of contraception. This could be the root of their problem and perhaps much of their angst could be relieved by them learning NFP. Then their decision to bring another soul into existence would be better talked out at least.

They use NFP.

 

[dianaballein]

I hear what you’re saying - we really can’t know if someone is happy - and besides, it’s their business. But in defense of the OP, I’ve had a friend who admitted she was totally miserable in her marriage, they were considering divorce, but decided to go ahead and have a baby to see if that might “fix things.” Not only do I think that’s an AWFUL tactic - (babies, although blessings, are stressful - hello? sleep deprivation?) And besides - what a lot of pressure to put on a child… ok, YOU are going to be the cure all for our crummy marriage… get busy!

So in that case, I think it’s fair to ask if it’s … well, I’m not sure about sinful necessarily - but REALLY stupid to try to have a child? Your example is very similar.

To answer your questions, they both share with me as their mutual friend that they are very unhappy. Happy?

 

[sherimarie]

A good question to ask them “would you be happier with someone else, or alone”. It seems to me if they are wanting to patch things up to the point where they would be thinking about another child, then there must be something there.
Maybe you could get them into a prolife group together, it may give them a lot to talk about and a way to pray together.