Is it a sin to pray with Protestants?

[JReducation]

According to Fr. Benedict Groeschel, whom I consider a pretty good source, we can pray with people of other faiths that can accept the Lord’s prayer. According to Fr. Groeschel this would mean Protestants, Jews and Muslims.

I’m not laughing at you. I’m laughing because that’s from St. Francis. When he sent his brothers to live in Palestine he gave them that piece of advice. That has been the Franciscan ruler for 800 years. The reason actually makes sense. Christians, Jews and Muslims all recognize God as Father.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:

 

[SalesianSDB]

I’m not laughing at you. I’m laughing because that’s from St. Francis. When he sent his brothers to live in Palestine he gave them that piece of advice. That has been the Franciscan ruler for 800 years. The reason actually makes sense. Christians, Jews and Muslims all recognize God as Father.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:

The first time I heard it was from Fr. Groeschel on EWTN, which makes sense since he is a Franciscan.

I remember in my Catholic high school my homeroom teacher sophomore year was Jewish. When the morning prayers came on he wouldn’t pray the prayer to the Holy Spirit, but he would loudly say the Our Father right after.

 

[JReducation]

The first time I heard it was from Fr. Groeschel on EWTN, which makes sense since he is a Franciscan.

I remember in my Catholic high school my homeroom teacher sophomore year was Jewish. When the morning prayers came on he wouldn’t pray the prayer to the Holy Spirit, but he would loudly say the Our Father right after.

That’s because outside of Christianity, the Trinity is still an unknown, but the Fatherhood of God is part of their belief system. It’s the same God.

I always try to explain it like this. You have two siblings, one is blind. Both know the same mother and father, but the one knows something that the other does not. The sighted one knows what they look like, their facial expressions, body language and even their movements. Therefore, his knowledge of his parents is more complete. However, that fact that the blind child has not experienced these aspects of the parent, but has only heard about them, does not change the nature of the parent.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:

 

[mro]

How would it ever be a sin simply to pray w/ anybody?

If you were to participate in their worship, that would be another matter.

ICXC NIKA

I thought it was just wrong to take communion in a protestant Church… My mommy and daddy aren’t both Catholic… My mom is a quaker and my dad is greek melkite catholic…

I was raised in both the Catholic Church and the Quaker meeting house… Although I identify as Catholic I was always taught that you could attend protestant services but couldn’t do communion with them

 

[KevinAK]

I thought it was just wrong to take communion in a protestant Church… My mommy and daddy aren’t both Catholic… My mom is a quaker and my dad is greek melkite catholic…

I was raised in both the Catholic Church and the Quaker meeting house… Although I identify as Catholic I was always taught that you could attend protestant services but couldn’t do communion with them

That was my understanding, as well. We still need to fufill our obligation to Sunday Mass however.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

According to Fr. Benedict Groeschel, whom I consider a pretty good source, we can pray with people of other faiths that can accept the Lord’s prayer. According to Fr. Groeschel this would mean Protestants, Jews and Muslims.

That’s because outside of Christianity, the Trinity is still an unknown, but the Fatherhood of God is part of their belief system. It’s the same God.

I always try to explain it like this. You have two siblings, one is blind. Both know the same mother and father, but the one knows something that the other does not. The sighted one knows what they look like, their facial expressions, body language and even their movements. Therefore, his knowledge of his parents is more complete. However, that fact that the blind child has not experienced these aspects of the parent, but has only heard about them, does not change the nature of the parent.

Great analogy.

I thought it was just wrong to take communion in a protestant Church… My mommy and daddy aren’t both Catholic… My mom is a quaker and my dad is greek melkite catholic…

I was raised in both the Catholic Church and the Quaker meeting house… Although I identify as Catholic I was always taught that you could attend protestant services but couldn’t do communion with them

You are correct. Don’t worry about it.

Especially in your case, since your mother is Quaker, family harmony and unity may particularly justify praying with Protestants in your case.

 

[mro]

Great analogy.

You are correct. Don’t worry about it.

Especially in your case, since your mother is Quaker, family harmony and unity may particularly justify praying with Protestants in your case.

LOL you got that right

 

[Melchior_1]

My parents divorced when I was two. There was joint custody, and my father took me to a Catholic Church on the weekends. When he didn’t take me to church, he abused me physically. And by that I mean he beat me senseless. Being a child, I thought that was love. I also received no attention unless I did something wrong, so I always thought that was the only way to get attention, including at school. So I acted out often. I had no friends, and this was all the way through several schools, as we moved once every year and a half. My mother eventually found out about the beatings, and took us away from him. I then became angry, resentful, and incredibly depressed. I left a couple of suicidal notes that my mother found. When I was 15, she got desperate, and paid for me to go to a conference. A conference at a place called Steubenville.

Myself and around 13 or 14 other people came back to the Church at the same time within a month span, most of us due to said conference. A youth group was formed, a charismatic one (which made sense considering the events that led to us coming back to the Church). A month or so after that started, our parish began 24/6 Adoration, with one day it not happening being Sunday. The blessings are soon in coming; our membership exploded from 14 to over 40.

This is in a town of 6500 people.

It was a tight community. We prayed together, had fellowship together. It was there I learned the importance of the Eucharist, as not only was the blessing of 24/6 Adoration plainly obvious, but my reversion at Steubenville happened during their Saturday evening Adoration.

They taught us quite a few things, but a lot of it didn’t stick. I mean, I learned things about the Church, but I was never academically orientated. Much more hands-on, and also a chronic underachiever. I had untreated ADHD at the time, which also didn’t help. But I can honestly say I did receive some great formation, and it began my interest in the spiritual/mysticism side of Catholicism.

When I was 18 I left the small town and moved to one of the largest cities in Canada. There I was, from population 6500 to a couple million. The grocery stores were bigger than the villages surrounding my old town. It was overwhelming. Complicating things further was I led an innocent life in certain areas until that point, and I met a girl while there. Complicating things even further is that I didn’t start puberty until I was 20 or so, maybe a bit later. Needless to say, that relationship wasn’t healthy.

I was also having issues at school. I was taking TV-Broadcasting, a passion of mine. I set up and ran the closed-circuit TV-Station at my high school for two and a half years (we broadcasted our announcements live every morning on monitors in each classroom. I was the director, producer, and technical lead). I had a natural aptitude for it, very gifted. That didn’t stop me from almost flunking out of college my first year. First semester they sent me a letter that told me I was on academic probation. I bombed both directing and producing, with both ranking among the worse in the class (if not THE worse). And it wasn’t for a lack of trying, I was trying, but nothing I could do worked. I survived, and they said to come back for the next semester with my C-/D+ average. To top it off, I went home for Christmas, and it reminded me of what left behind. Going back to the city that was 650km away was hard, i was very homesick. And I realized that my girlfriend and I weren’t to be, so I broke up with her.

The second semester the head of the department didn’t even send me a letter, he called me to his office and flat out said “This isn’t working out. Can you try something else?” I was devastated. I told him “there is nothing else for me. This is all I can do, all I can afford”, which was true; I came from a poor background that evolved into a modest one. We took out government loans for me to go to school. I’d be heading back home with my tail between my legs, likely stuck there for life. He told me I needed to pick up the pace.

Something interesting happened though; a scriptwriting class. I always liked writing, it was something I enjoyed. I had an idea for a novel, and I told the teacher that was my plan - to write a novel. She scoffed at the idea at first, in large part due to the country boy saying he had writing ambitions. That and I acted a bit like a country boy. The class continued, and we had to write character sketches. I wrote mine, and got 10/10. she asked for the first six pages of the script, another 10/10. When the whole thing was due, I got 24/25, with the only marks being deducted for making a couple of mistakes with margin formatting. The content was impeccable. 44/45 total on the whole project, and she offered to edit my book for me.

The book never got written, still hasn’t. I don’t know if it ever will. But the idea, the concept, gave me my first ever A+ in a course. That summer I worked 60 hours a week, a mix of overnights, days, and evenings. Near the end I asked God “I can’t do this alone, but you’ve shown me I can handle this”. The next year started, and something happened; confidence happened. I started doing well in school. We were now doing hands-on, not theory. And I knew that I could do it, I got an A+ the previous semester. I kept on going, and I finished that semester with another A and an overall B average.

 

[Melchior_1]

The next semester showed, up, and the same head of the department was back from sabbatical (he took the last semester off). At this point I was out for blood; I was going to prove him wrong. Prove them all wrong. And I did just that. A friend was producing a show, and I walked up to him and said “I need to direct your show”. He looked at me for a couple of seconds, and I think he understood why. After the show, the department head pulled me aside and asked me with a shocked voice/look and said “what happened?”. “I got better”. “It shows, that was one of the best jobs I’ve seen”. He later said it was the most relaxed control room he was ever in. This continued all year, and I finished with an A- overall average for the semester. This taught me to trust in God and confidence in myself and my own skills/gifts.

This all leads up to this; I met another girl, a year behind me. She was a Baptist, and I was smitten by her. We eventually started dating, but something was in the way; she didn’t think Catholics were Christian. We got into debates, many were heated. I tried and tried to prove her wrong, that Catholics were Christian. She had none of it. After three months she made me choose between her and Rome, and I chose Rome. At that point I told myself “this won’t be happening again. Not now, not ever”. I began reading Church history, apologetics, and resources online.

Due to being involved in the charismatic movement I’ve always had an affinity for Catholic spiritual theology. That’s one thing charismatic Catholics do incredibly well, is tap into that spiritual/mystical part of the Church. What this girl did, without me even knowing, made me go down the path of systematic theology. I began to blend the two together. As I matured I began to apply philosophy and psychology to my apologetics. Gradually, it became that I agreed with the Church on philosophical grounds primarily, with it just so happening that it theologically lined it. Objectively and intellectually speaking, the Church made perfect sense. The mystical aspect gave me insight and profound spiritual moments, and the systematic aspect gave me the logic, intelligence, and reason. I started helping out at a local Life Teen parish (eight years later I am still there, now the parish catechist). All of this lead up to what is arguably the most pivotal moment in my life…

I met another woman. Another Protestant woman. And again, I was smitten. But one issue; she had TERRIBLE experiences with Catholics in the past. This time though, I was ready. I did not hit her over the head with things, I did not send her multitudes of information. I did not deny that there was at least some truth in her non-denominationalism, We believed in the core Christian values, which was a start. After talking with her and explaining the Catholic stance on Faith and Works, she found that she agreed with me. She started asking a few questions, and I answered. All the while she was church hopping. And each Christian church she went to, I went with her. We even went to the local “Catholic” church, which did things like have people go up for communion and take the hosts themselves…with some of the hosts being leavened. And with the priest saying that the Transfiguration was an “altered state of reality”. I was furious of course, and she was appalled. I didn’t receive Communion there, it didn’t feel right. I didn’t receive communion in any of the Churches we went to, unless we went to Mass (well, except that one Mass at that one church). We prayed together, and we kept on going. I was ready to marry her, she knew this. I knew this. What I also knew was that she did not believe in Sola Fide. What I DIDN’T know was that over the course of a couple of years she began second guessing Sola Scriptura based on her own research and some of the answers I gave to some of her questions. She saw how I carried myself, how I engaged other people about the Catholic faith. She saw and heard the work I was doing at Life Teen, and the work the program at the parish was doing in general. In me, she saw the systematic and the spiritual. She was intrigued, she pushed herself forward.

And she eventually converted, with myself being her sponsor. We’re now married, and have a handsome eleven month old son.

My journey in Catholicism is by no means done. I have long felt called to a secular order, and my wife knows this. There are two orders within the Church that blends the spiritual and systematic in a dynamic way; the Franciscans and the Dominicans. I always felt the Franciscans would be it; they brought me back home, gave me a second chance at life. Saved my life, literally. My birthday is October 4th, the Feast of St. Francis. I knew within my heart that Francis was guiding me in life, helping me. But I never got around to doing it…for good reason. Over seven years I was discerning, and things came to a head when doing research on the Dominicans. I love writing, learning, and preaching. I love teaching. And I’m quite good at it. I was incredibly conflicted for some time.

 

[Melchior_1]

It was Brother JR who, possibly without him even knowing, essentially took me by the hand and led me down the right path. I read his posts here, I sent him PM’s. I even went into his profile to see what he posted that day to see if it was about the spirituality of religious orders. What sealed the deal for me? Knowing that either way Francis would be my Holy Father. After prayer, discernment, research…and writing (see this thread for more on my journey). A lot of writing. As you can tell, I like writing.

So a secular order that blends mystical theology, systematic theology, teaching, preaching, research, writing, and finding out God’s Will through all of those. After I wrote a couple thousand words about my journey, I knew who my family was going to be.

December 17th I’m tentatively meeting with the head of the local priory with my wife. I’ll be starting formation soon, she’ll be coming with to learn more. She loves learning, and loves academics. She’ll fit right in.

This longwinded spiel is designed for three reasons. One; to see that it’s quite fine to pray with Protestants. Two, to show that the charismatic renewal does bear good fruit, and ties into several elements within the Catholic Church (namely the mysticism portion).

The third; to see some insight into Dominican spirituality. Without even knowing Dominican spirituality, I was practicing it. And God used that to bring a woman home to Rome. He used to bring me a Proverbs 31 woman to be my wife. He used it to bring me a handsome son.

And He used it to give me not one Father, but two. I’m proud to say that Dominic and Francis are my Holy Fathers in everything but an official sense at this point, and soon enough I will be a part of their families.

Holy Fathers Dominic & Francis, pray for us. Mother Catherine of Sienna and Mother Claire, pray for us.

 

[TrueLight]

It was Brother JR who, possibly without him even knowing, essentially took me by the hand and led me down the right path. I read his posts here, I sent him PM’s. I even went into his profile to see what he posted that day to see if it was about the spirituality of religious orders. What sealed the deal for me? Knowing that either way Francis would be my Holy Father. After prayer, discernment, research…and writing (see this thread for more on my journey). A lot of writing. As you can tell, I like writing.

So a secular order that blends mystical theology, systematic theology, teaching, preaching, research, writing, and finding out God’s Will through all of those. After I wrote a couple thousand words about my journey, I knew who my family was going to be.

December 17th I’m tentatively meeting with the head of the local priory with my wife. I’ll be starting formation soon, she’ll be coming with to learn more. She loves learning, and loves academics. She’ll fit right in.

This longwinded spiel is designed for three reasons. One; to see that it’s quite fine to pray with Protestants. Two, to show that the charismatic renewal does bear good fruit, and ties into several elements within the Catholic Church (namely the mysticism portion).

The third; to see some insight into Dominican spirituality. Without even knowing Dominican spirituality, I was practicing it. And God used that to bring a woman home to Rome. He used to bring me a Proverbs 31 woman to be my wife. He used it to bring me a handsome son.

And He used it to give me not one Father, but two. I’m proud to say that Dominic and Francis are my Holy Fathers in everything but an official sense at this point, and soon enough I will be a part of their families.

Holy Fathers Dominic & Francis, pray for us. Mother Catherine of Sienna and Mother Claire, pray for us.

Tank you for sharing this.

 

[Roy5]

A couple quick thoughts.

**I have a close friend who is a Reform Rabbi**. He is not antiChristian, but he certainly would never pray the Lord's Prayer. When he visits we avoid it out of respect for him and his faith. There are sufficient prayers and readings from the Hebrew scriptures, especially the Psalms.

** It is my understanding that Quakers do not have communion**. I have always admired the Society of Friends. Their witness against war, for example, is inspiring. They also have been pioneers in advocating rights for African-Americans, women, etc. I also thought that they do not have Baptism. Perhaps I’m speaking of eastern Quakers (Philadelphia area) as I understand that Quakers further west are more like mainline Protestants.

** It is simply silly to suggest that Catholics and Protestants should not pray together.** That strikes at the very core of Christianity which is to love God and one another. We should take every opportunity to join with those of different faiths in worship. Last week we had a wonderful ecumenical Thanksgiving service at a local Catholic Church. Clergy and others who led it included many Protestant ministers, two Catholic priests, a rabbi, and a Sikh leader. That’s the way the world should be, and Christ must have rejoiced!

** Let us make religion a bridge rather than a barrier**! God bless everyone - of every creed, color, culture and country. No exceptions!

** PS I happened to be watching a concert on PBS last week.** It came from Moscow and featured a couple superb soloists. As I watched, this thought came to me. The people there seem like such a fine group, appreciative of good music, with bright and smiling faces. Isn’t it obscene that we engage in killing such people who do us no harm? That’s what war today is mostly about - slaughtering the innocent. Tears came to my eyes, and I prayed that those of us who seek to follow Christ would increase our efforts to achieve world understanding and reconciliation. Out with religious arogance. Let us embrace humble love of God and seek to live in harmony with our fellow human beings.

 

[passer_by]

It was Brother JR who, possibly without him even knowing, essentially took me by the hand and led me down the right path. I read his posts here, I sent him PM’s. I even went into his profile to see what he posted that day to see if it was about the spirituality of religious orders. What sealed the deal for me? Knowing that either way Francis would be my Holy Father. After prayer, discernment, research…and writing (see this thread for more on my journey). A lot of writing. As you can tell, I like writing.

So a secular order that blends mystical theology, systematic theology, teaching, preaching, research, writing, and finding out God’s Will through all of those. After I wrote a couple thousand words about my journey, I knew who my family was going to be.

December 17th I’m tentatively meeting with the head of the local priory with my wife. I’ll be starting formation soon, she’ll be coming with to learn more. She loves learning, and loves academics. She’ll fit right in.

This longwinded spiel is designed for three reasons. One; to see that it’s quite fine to pray with Protestants. Two, to show that the charismatic renewal does bear good fruit, and ties into several elements within the Catholic Church (namely the mysticism portion).

The third; to see some insight into Dominican spirituality. Without even knowing Dominican spirituality, I was practicing it. And God used that to bring a woman home to Rome. He used to bring me a Proverbs 31 woman to be my wife. He used it to bring me a handsome son.

And He used it to give me not one Father, but two. I’m proud to say that Dominic and Francis are my Holy Fathers in everything but an official sense at this point, and soon enough I will be a part of their families.

Holy Fathers Dominic & Francis, pray for us. Mother Catherine of Sienna and Mother Claire, pray for us.

I don’t mean to sound critical, but something to keep in mind is that any action, both good and evil, can bear good fruits.

God can bring about great good from utmost evils we do. It does not in anyway mean that we can continue to do evil or conclude that the evil act is good.

In my opinion, praying with Protestants, if done properly, is great and can lead them to the Church. But if done incorrectly, will only lead to indifferentism. The latter does not benefit the Protestants or the Catholic Church.

So if one cannot do prayer with Protestants correctly, please do everyone a favor and DON’T DO IT would be my thinking!

 

[Irish_Polock]

I don’t mean to sound critical, but something to keep in mind is that any action, both good and evil, can bear good fruits.

God can bring about great good from utmost evils we do. It does not in anyway mean that we can continue to do evil or conclude that the evil act is good.

In my opinion, praying with Protestants, if done properly, is great and can lead them to the Church. But if done incorrectly, will only lead to indifferentism. The latter does not benefit the Protestants or the Catholic Church.

So if one cannot do prayer with Protestants correctly, please do everyone a favor and DON’T DO IT would be my thinking!

I would agree, do it correctly, or don’t do it at all.

 

[OraLabora]

I would agree, do it correctly, or don’t do it at all.

Which begs the question: where can I find the guide book on how to pray “correctly” with Protestants. Or Jews or Muslims for that matter…

I don’t think there is one. And since I don’t know specifically Protestants prayers (other than sharing the Our Father, mostly), I would be inclined to simply pray as I know how. Which would be LOTH, rosary, Our Father, Hail Mary, and simply personal petitions.

None of which, I am sure, will get me into too much trouble with God. With some forum members though, that’s another matter

 

[JReducation]

So if one cannot do prayer with Protestants correctly, please do everyone a favor and DON’T DO IT would be my thinking!

I believe that the correctness also depends on the context. In my ministry, I pray a great deal with Protestants. Every week we go to a different abortuary and we pray together. It’s not a service, Catholic or Protestant. It’s Christians praying for the life of the voiceless.

I certainly would never refuse to pray with Protestants at the beginning of a meeting or in the morning when we open the pregnancy center. Actually, the pregnancy centers are Catholic, but there are Protestant volunteers. We don’t tell them that they can’t join us in the prayer. Nor would I refuse to pray grace before meals with them.

The Holy Father prayed the Liturgy of the Hours at Westminster and I believe at the Lutheran parish in Germany (I have to check that one out.) Those are very appropriate contexts.

I have said throughout this thread, we attend weddings, funerals, baptisms and other special events at Protestant churches. It is one thing to pray and another thing to go up for communion. Going to communion would be completely inappropriate. Praying for the consolation of the family of the deceased, it very appropriate. Most Protestants don’t pray for the dead.

I think doing it right is really determined by the context.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF :christmastree1:

 

[OraLabora]

The Holy Father prayed the Liturgy of the Hours at Westminster and I believe at the Lutheran parish in Germany (I have to check that one out.)

At the 2005 World Oblates’ Congress in Rome we celebrated the LOTH daily. One day we had Orthdox Vespers, and another day we had Anglican Evensong. Bishops, cardinals (including from the Curia) participated. Presumably if they could so could we!

 

[Contarini]

Which begs the question: where can I find the guide book on how to pray “correctly” with Protestants. Or Jews or Muslims for that matter…

I don’t think there is one.

Yes, there is. I have cited it repeatedly in this and other threads.

Edwin

 

[Roy5]

Most of the Protestants I know well - Baptists, Methodists, UCC - are inclined to pray extemporaniously. (Did I spell that correctly?) They are less likely to rely upon prayers written by others. They tend to regard dependence on ‘canned’ prayers as not our own and they can easily become more prescribed ritual than sincerely coming from the heart.

  I've been in a few ecumenical situations where some Catholics, Episcopalians and Lutherans (and Jews in interfaith gatherings) seem to feel a bit lost without their prayerbooks. About the only prayer that is likely to be repeated every Sunday in most Protestant churches is the "Our Father". Some Protestants say debts, others say trespasses. Some end it with forever, others with forever and ever. A few now substitute sins for debts and trespasses. Etc. They all appear to end it with "For thine is the kingdom....." Some churches now trade in the traditional language of the King James Version for more contmporary English and even gender-free wording. 

 The question is sort of inane. Of course Christians should pray together! How narrow-minded one must be to refuse such a privilege and opportunity! God cares little about our church affilliation. Our duty is to love the Lord and one another. 

 Let us work together to make religion a bridge rather than a barrier.

 

[A_G]

We are all brothers and sisters in Christ. As long as you don’t contradict Catholic teaching, it should be fine. I don’t believe it is a sin to pray with Protestants, as long as you pray as a Catholic. If we do not practice our faith and pray as if we are not Catholics, then it is a sin.