Is it a sin to question the teachings of the CC?

[Peter_J]

There is no doubt on the issue. The Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith has clarified it a few times.(56) The interpretation of those who would derive from the formula subsistit in the thesis that the one Church of Christ could subsist also in non-Catholic Churches and ecclesial communities is therefore contrary to the authentic meaning of Lumen gentium. "The Council instead chose the word subsistit precisely to clarify that there exists only one "subsistence’ of the true Church, while outside her visible structure there only exist elementa Ecclesiae, which "being elements of that same Church “tend and lead toward the Catholic Church”
(Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Notification on the Book “Church: Charism and Power” by Father Leonardo Boff: AAS 77 [1985], 756-762).

Only? One? True? Hmmm … sounds a lot like what the Orthodox Church believes about herself.

 

[Vico]

Only? One? True? Hmmm … sounds a lot like what the Orthodox Church believes about herself.

Different because the Orthodox believe that the Catholic Church has a different faith and the Orthodox also do not share the same ecclesiology of the Church.

Sharing faith, sacraments, and governed by the successor of Peter and the bishops in communion with him.

CCEO
Canon 7

1. The Christian faithful are those who, incorporated in Christ through baptism, have been constituted as the people of God; for this reason, since they have become sharers in Christ’s priestly, prophetic and royal function in their own manner; they are called, in accordance with the condition proper to each, to exercise the mission which God has entrusted to the Church to fulfill in the world.
2. This Church, constituted and organized as a society in this world, subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the successor of Peter and the bishops in communion with him.

 

[Peter_J]

Different because the Orthodox believe that the Catholic Church has a different faith and the Orthodox also do not share the same ecclesiology of the Church.

I agree. That’s why I said “sounds a lot like what the Orthodox Church believes about herself.” (emphasis added)

 

[CaptFun]

Since the official, established, and formal “teachings of the Catholic Church” are TRUE … It CAN be.

Is the questioning HONEST questioning? FAIR questioning? Publically and disrespectfully questioning? Cynical and dismissive questioning?

Or reverent, thoughtful questioning as in Peter’s " … Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life." Or Mary’s " … pondering all these things in her heart."

Questioning of the nature of*** " … how may I understand this better?" or*** " … what are the fruits of this teaching for the faithful?" is quite different from a "why do I have to do THIS?" semi-tantrum.

Asking “why” honestly and fairly with a good attitude toward the Church can lead to greater insights. Questioning in the sense of “this teaching, though true, could be refined and more powerful if it is married to THIS other Church teaching - for the people of our time …” is quite a different thing than egoistic rebellion. And could lead to building UP the Church vs. tearing her down.

If your own questioning is a prompting of the Holy Spirit … of course no, it’s not a sin.
Such questions will lead one to deeper truth, spur the use of the Holy Spirit’s gifts within us (Knowledge, Understanding, Wisdom, Counsel, Piety, Fortitude and Fear of the Lord) and lead us to answers that will enlighten others - and leading toward the joyful “finding” of the Lord’s “…seek and you shall find” counsel.

The Lord also told the apostles “who hears you hears me …” and sent them forth, deputized as it were with many powers, including the teaching power “Go … and teach all nations …”

The apostles then had, and the Church of today has - “teachings”. Some formal and defined by Councils or a Pope’s “ordinary teaching”, also lesser rulings (temporary or permanent). On occasion there were (and are) controversies undefined by the Church “teachings;” some with clergy on either “side” for a time. Which clergy do I follow? Shouldn’t I question ‘which is right?’

Could BOTH be right … but misunderstanding one another? Both right in that one Bishop was granting a local dispensation (say) while another broadly defending a teaching of the Church? Is one “Churchman” or “Sister” challenging established dogma and the other defending it?

Well … these are questions, but not sinful if asked in sincerity and with an honest desire to please the Lord rather than indulge our feelings.

On a “put on the armor …” note, Satan will try to lead us to “question the teachings …” in the worst possible way. Just as he did with Eve and the Lord’s teaching “do not eat the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden … for on the day you eat of it you shall die.”

“Did the Lord really say THAT?” was Satan’s opening gambit … “questioning the teaching” if you will. Soon the question became a list of accusations “You will not DIE. He knows you will become like HIM, like gods, knowing right from wrong …” and Eve, guided by such questions and declarations, questioned FURTHER. But justifying each contradiction of God’s “teaching” with an interior “why NOT?”

Is the fruit desirable? Yes it looks delicious!
Would we be more like gods if this knowledge is in this fruit? Yes, that’d be desirable too.
Wouldn’t eating it help me find out who’s telling the truth (God or this snake)? YES!
If it is as the snake says, wouldn’t God just be selfish and bossy, a liar and in the way of our self-actualization? Yeah. Him and His special stash!

And the “questions” led to rebellion and ruin. And were “sinful questions” before she even sinned (considering their source). Questioning wasn’t the sin, eating the fruit was.
But before the eating came doubt, suspicion, envy, pride, moral equivalence, and coveting another’s goods.

Conclusion: Given the*** “Is it a sin?”*** question above and the Eve example … a ringing **YES and a childlike obedience that doesn’t question so much – might be more prudent **than all the mental gymnastics gone through above.

The **NO column is fraught with much more danger **… even if it can be argued that "holy questioning leads to greater understanding, knowledge, and wisdom…" etc.

******If we do question, invite the Holy Spirit in on it … instead of letting Satan “raise our consciousness” in a spirit of selfish “protest”.

 

[aragonjohn1]

Could you explain how pointing out media bias equals defending abuse? I’m sure I’m not the only person here who doesn’t see the equivalency.

Shalom.

 

[StevenFrancis]

I can only imagine what the Orthodox think when they read this sort of propaganda.

I’ll accept this. I’m new to the conversation, and if what I’m saying is some sort of “propaganda”, I’ll be happy to go back to silence on the issue. I was passing on what I had gleaned from the articles I read. I guess I should have know that you folks have been talking about this in detail for a good long time. Still, the idea of speaking in depth with one’s priest and ordinary, can’t be that bad of an idea, can it?

Anyway, color me schooled, and moving on to the threads where I possess more knowledge.

Peace,

Steven

 

[Peter_J]

I’ll accept this.

Fair enough, there’s nothing wrong with being uncertain (and obviously it wouldn’t make sense to dig your heels in on something you’re uncertain of). But then, may I ask why you said it?

 

[Peter_J]

Anyway, color me schooled,

Speaking the truth isn’t necessarily “schooling” somebody.

 

[Padraig1972]

Since i started this thread: i have emotionally been through a tornado. But i am alive. It can take quite sometime before i make up my mind. Simply because it matters to be a true witness of Christ and belong to the unbroken part of the church.

That requires some reading, probably many conversations (like stated before), much prayer and me investigating to find out more.

I trust in God to lead me on the right path and will keep an open mind for His will-wishes and my own selfishness-seldom. Also: thanks for your comments so far, for much help and good advices. I really do appreciate a lot more than some words from a unworthy, no good servant ever can really tell-show.

Thank you.

 

[Peter_J]

Since i started this thread: i have emotionally been through a tornado. But i am alive. It can take quite sometime before i make up my mind. Simply because it matters to be a true witness of Christ and belong to the unbroken part of the church.

That requires some reading, probably many conversations (like stated before), much prayer and me investigating to find out more.

I trust in God to lead me on the right path and will keep an open mind for His will-wishes and my own selfishness-seldom. Also: thanks for your comments so far, for much help and good advices. I really do appreciate a lot more than some words from a unworthy, no good servant ever can really tell-show.

Thank you.

Hi again Padraig,

Speaking as someone who has felt, but not yielded to, the pull toward Orthodoxy, let me say that I take comfort in the fact that I’ve never broken off communion with anyone. When conversing with Orthodox, I sometimes say to myself “I may not be an Orthodox, but I’m not an ex-Orthodox either”.

 

[Peter_J]

I am well aware of this. If one converts, it is a big step and all these kind of choices in life has their consequences.

But i don`t want it to be any different. The bottom line is: if this is a sin, i will repent and ask the Lord for forgiveness every day for as long as it takes.

I personally believe that the things we need to achieve unity involves things not part of the Deposit of Faith, thus we can compromise on it. I believe the number 1 reason we are not united is Pride. I’m pretty sure we can compromise on that.

When the possibility of the Orthodox coming into full communion with Rome is raised, people almost always say that the reason it doesn’t happen is pride and sinfulness. While I can understand where they’re coming from (and in fact is pretty much where I’m coming from) I have, over the last several years, become reluctant to see it in terms of pride and sinfulness.

I realize that this post isn’t likely to change anyone’s mind, I’m just sharing my own take on it.

 

[StevenFrancis]

Fair enough, there’s nothing wrong with being uncertain (and obviously it wouldn’t make sense to dig your heels in on something you’re uncertain of). But then, may I ask why you said it?

It was information I had been reading in articles at New Advent, which is a source I generally trust with Catholic information. No controversy inteneded. I’d really like the East and West to be one Church again. There are so many problems in the world. Just the culture itself in USA and Europe is a full time thorn in the side. We could be so much more effective as a single Church. There was really a feeling in the main article that the primary theological issues were pretty much ironed out, and that some natural, but unfounded worries were the stumbling block. You, and perhaps others have pointed out that this isn’t the case. For all I know, it’s been your whole life’s work and study. So I feel a little out of place now with contribution. Thanks again.

Blessings.

I’ll continue to pray for a united Church

 

[Peter_J]

It was information I had been reading in articles at New Advent, which is a source I generally trust with Catholic information. No controversy inteneded. I’d really like the East and West to be one Church again. There are so many problems in the world. Just the culture itself in USA and Europe is a full time thorn in the side. We could be so much more effective as a single Church. There was really a feeling in the main article that the primary theological issues were pretty much ironed out, and that some natural, but unfounded worries were the stumbling block. You, and perhaps others have pointed out that this isn’t the case. For all I know, it’s been your whole life’s work and study. So I feel a little out of place now with contribution. Thanks again.

Blessings.

I’ll continue to pray for a united Church

Well, ultimately it’s your choice whether you want to leave in a huff, but personally I hope you’ll stick around.