Is it a sin to tell a stalker your seeing someone?

[HAP0623]

Thanks again for the advice! Today I worked in the morning, unlike most of the time when I work at night. I told my boss about it because I see him for about 10 minutes before switching shifts. We have an office which has a lock on it and a phone inside, so if I see him or if the cashier sees him pull up we are to call him immediatly and since he lives close by he is going to stop over. If anything happens, I have no problem calling the cops, I also have a little keychain pepper spray that Im going to start keeping in my pocket for now on. I didnt realize how dangerous is was having only two girls on at night, Im going to keep an eye out though and keep the phone handy. The cops are not even 5 minutes down the road, and usually one is either across the street or in the same parking lot. Im rather nervous to go to work tomorrow night, but im just going to be cautious and Im glad I know what kind of car he drives. If something happens though, Im going to talk to my boss about getting a restraining order and having him out of the store for good. Im glad I posted, because lying doesnt make sense anymore, like someone said if he is stalking me, hes not going to care about any story I say. Thanks for the advice though. Im deffinatly going to be more careful at work though and be on the lookout for this person. I wont be afraid to call the cops either.

 

[Scottgun]

Glad to hear you are taking necessary precautions. I will pray for your protection. God bless.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

If you don’t want to end up like St. Maria Goretti, follow what others have said and do whatever you can to protect yourself. I’m sure St. Maria Goretti wouldn’t have wanted to die that way if she had a choice, but her rapist was busy choking and stabbing her. Besides, she became a saint because of the forgiveness she had shown to her rapist, not because she was a victim.

Lying would not be a mortal sin in this case because of the circumstances, but I agree that you need more than that and you should tell your manager and make sure you aren’t alone.

This, coming from someone who has a first-class relic of the saint.

St. Maria Goretti didn’t have a rapist, because she was never raped. She did have a killer, because he killed her after giving her the choice to either give her virginity to him or to give up her life. She did choose. She chose her own death.

I hope my daughter, given that same choice of sex outside of marriage or death would also choose death. People who are raped are not given a choice, I would know because I, like most women, was raped.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

So I have a weird situation. I work with the public, and I always try to be nice and talk to the customers about the weather and just be friendly. Well we have a regular customer who comes in almost everyday and he just passed the creepy line. Today at work he talked to me about how he hates the weather, then talked about his cars, then he showed me pictures of his nieces, then it got creepy and he asked me for one of my pictures and I said I dont have any, and he told me to get some done and I said I need to get back to work and stepped away from the register. He then grabbed my shoulder and hugged me and tried kissing my cheek which I pushed away, then he asked where I lived and I said about 10 minutes away and he asked when I got out of work. I was slowly stepping away, then he said we should have dinner and I said sorry I cant and tried getting away and he kept trying to put his arm around me and finally I said bye and was walking away and he said ok we will make plans. This guy is about 3 times my age and is really creepy. I talked to one of my associates who saw the whole thing and said that hes going to start stalking me now and bringing me flowers and other things and he will start looking for my car and might try following me to different places because thats what he did to her for a while, and only stopped when I started working and he turned his attention to me. So, I dont know if hes going to or not, but if he brings flowers is it a sin to tell him I cant except them because my boyfriend would be mad… even though I dont have a boyfriend? I havent lied in a while and Im trying to keep it that way, Im actually afraid to lie now. Is there another way without lying?

Weirdos who inflict their company on others have no right to be told the truth. Would you tell a Nazi intent on beating up or killing a Jew where the Jew was ?​

Usually, lying is wrong - but not in circumstances of this kind. Those who would harm us have no right to be treated as we treat those who behave in a civilised fashion. Murder & thuggery & are not civilised, & neither is stalking. A rapist who brings flowers is still a rapist - how is a stalker any less a stalker ( & thus, a nuisance & quite possibly a danger) for bringing flowers ? Your boyfriend ought, in a healthy society such as we don’t live in, to beat the hell out of him, for that is what such nuisances deserve.

 

[SingleMomMonica]

Thanks again for the advice! Today I worked in the morning, unlike most of the time when I work at night. I told my boss about it because I see him for about 10 minutes before switching shifts. We have an office which has a lock on it and a phone inside, so if I see him or if the cashier sees him pull up we are to call him immediatly and since he lives close by he is going to stop over. If anything happens, I have no problem calling the cops, I also have a little keychain pepper spray that Im going to start keeping in my pocket for now on. I didnt realize how dangerous is was having only two girls on at night, Im going to keep an eye out though and keep the phone handy. The cops are not even 5 minutes down the road, and usually one is either across the street or in the same parking lot. Im rather nervous to go to work tomorrow night, but im just going to be cautious and Im glad I know what kind of car he drives. If something happens though, Im going to talk to my boss about getting a restraining order and having him out of the store for good. Im glad I posted, because lying doesnt make sense anymore, like someone said if he is stalking me, hes not going to care about any story I say. Thanks for the advice though. Im deffinatly going to be more careful at work though and be on the lookout for this person. I wont be afraid to call the cops either.

Thanks be to God!

 

[Scottgun]

Weirdos who inflict their company on others have no right to be told the truth. Would you tell a Nazi intent on beating up or killing a Jew where the Jew was ? Usually, lying is wrong - but not in circumstances of this kind.​

Again, there is a huge difference between witholding a truth from someone not entitled to it and outright deliberately speaking falsehoods. The former is acceptable, the latter isn’t. It’s objectively wrong, meaning no circumstance permits it.

 

[Writer]

Good article on the morality in the kind of lying being discussed here. I agree with Gottle of Geer that it is appropriate to take what verbal steps as necessary to keep yourself safe. You may also want to inquire from your police department about having the individual trespassed for life from your establishment.

catholic.com/thisrock/2008/0809fea3.asp

 

[JPUSC]

Weirdos who inflict their company on others have no right to be told the truth. Would you tell a Nazi intent on beating up or killing a Jew where the Jew was ?​

Usually, lying is wrong - but not in circumstances of this kind. Those who would harm us have no right to be treated as we treat those who behave in a civilised fashion. Murder & thuggery & are not civilised, & neither is stalking. A rapist who brings flowers is still a rapist - how is a stalker any less a stalker ( & thus, a nuisance & quite possibly a danger) for bringing flowers ? Your boyfriend ought, in a healthy society such as we don’t live in, to beat the hell out of him, for that is what such nuisances deserve.

I seem to recall reading that Catholics issued false baptismal records for Jews so that they could be saved from the Nazis.

Boys were particularly at risk because of circumcision and therefore, required special hiding places. Nuns obtained false papers for children including baptismal certificates.

catholiceducation.org/articles/history/world/wh0040.html

“Our film shows that Pius XII was always a bitter enemy of Hitler and the Third Reich,” Naglieri said. “His efforts to assist Jews included hiding refugees in monasteries and convents, approving methods such as issuing false baptismal certificates and in many cases donating money from his own personal account to help Jews flee Europe.”

catholicregister.org/content/view/2429/854/

Now, isn’t this a form of lying in order to protect someone who doesn’t have the right to know the truth? Pope Pius XII approved.

Gottle of Geer is right.

 

[Scottgun]

Guys. The teaching is very clear: 2485 “By it’s very nature, lying is to be condemned.” You can’t do something evil by nature and make it good.

When your worldview permits lying, you completely undermine it because everything that flows from your mouth can be called into question under, “well how do I know that this isn’t one of those circumstances that permits lying?” Our faith and our witness depends on the ABSOLUTE integrity of Truth. Pull that out and the whole crumbles.

 

[LilyM]

I seem to recall reading that Catholics issued false baptismal records for Jews so that they could be saved from the Nazis.

Now, isn’t this a form of lying in order to protect someone who doesn’t have the right to know the truth? Pope Pius XII approved.

Gottle of Geer is right.

Hang on - what was the exact wording of these ‘approvals’?

It may well be that people unfamiliar with the nuances of the moral theology involved mistook a compassionate acknowledgement from Pius of a practice that inevitably would’ve been done anyway, and which surely in such circumstances would’ve been a very minor venial sin, as constituting a full endorsement when in reality it was no such thing.

You know people tend to hear what they want.

Remember the nuns in the Sound of Music who (quite seriously to themselves although perhaps amusingly to the audience) confessed to removing the spark plug from the car of the Nazis so that they couldn’t follow the von Trapps? THAT is authentic church teaching. An incredibly venial sin, but a sin nonethless and not to be endorsed :tsktsk:

 

[JPUSC]

Hang on - what was the exact wording of these ‘approvals’?

It may well be that people unfamiliar with the nuances of the moral theology involved mistook a compassionate acknowledgement from Pius of a practice that inevitably would’ve been done anyway, and which surely in such circumstances would’ve been a very minor venial sin, as constituting a full endorsement when in reality it was no such thing.

You know people tend to hear what they want.

Remember the nuns in the Sound of Music who (quite seriously to themselves although perhaps amusingly to the audience) confessed to removing the spark plug from the car of the Nazis so that they couldn’t follow the von Trapps? THAT is authentic church teaching. An incredibly venial sin, but a sin nonethless and not to be endorsed :tsktsk:

Because this was done in secrecy, Pope Pius XII’s requests were not released to the public for obvious reasons.

An article from EWTN written by Fr. William Saunders also states the fact that Pope Pius XII supported this:

[Pope Pius XII] allowed the issuance of false baptismal certificates to Jews. These deeds do not even include the general relief efforts and distribution of food coordinated by the Vatican for the city of Rome.

ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PIUSJEWS.HTM

The Sound of Music is a movie, not real-life.

 

[Scottgun]

You can come with all the examples in the world of where this pope did this or that person did that, but we haven’t moved forward because NO ONE has shown anything from Church teaching that says that lying is anything other than an objective wrong. Allow exceptions and you shoot your integrity away completely.

 

[LilyM]

Because this was done in secrecy, Pope Pius XII’s requests were not released to the public for obvious reasons.

An article from EWTN written by Fr. William Saunders also states the fact that Pope Pius XII supported this:

Again, ‘allowed’ can mean many many things short of a ringing endorsement of the behaviour and complete absolution from all moral taint! If my adult daughter decides to move from home and shack up with her drug-addicted lesbian lover I will perforce ‘allow’ her to do so. Does that mean I unreservedly approve of what she’s doing and think she’s morally blameless in doing it?

The Sound of Music is a movie, not real-life.

It is fiction which nonetheless accurately reflects Church teaching. When knowledgeable people make movies about Catholics, even fictional ones, they sometimes manage to do that, you know.

 

[ready]

It’s a lie to tell a stalker you are seeing someone. Lies will lead to further problems and are sinful. Just tell him how you feel: that you can not accept the flowers because that would make you feel uncomfortable. If he asks you why or goes on, ask him to please not bother you and say sorry. If he continues, sincerely tell him that you do not want to have to get a restraining order on him, but would have to if he persists in disturbing you. Be sincere and Christian…and be truthful.

 

[Gerard_Nadal]

My Dear Child,

This has nothing to do with morality. NOTHING!!!

This is about your safety, and his violation of the law. Go with your parents to the local police station and tell them of what he has done.

He may be a convicted sex offender.

Follow the advice of the police. Essentially you should have no contact with him at all. Your boss needs to know about this situation. If your boss has even the awareness of a frog, he or she will want to protect the employees.

Remember, you are not the first target of this pig.

Stay close to the police on this one. Forget moral issues here. The preservation of your well-being is the highest priority.

God Bless

 

[Lujack]

Again, ‘allowed’ can mean many many things short of a ringing endorsement of the behaviour and complete absolution from all moral taint! If my adult daughter decides to move from home and shack up with her drug-addicted lesbian lover I will perforce ‘allow’ her to do so. Does that mean I unreservedly approve of what she’s doing and think she’s morally blameless in doing it?

It is fiction which nonetheless accurately reflects Church teaching. When knowledgeable people make movies about Catholics, even fictional ones, they sometimes manage to do that, you know.

Let’s boil it down to something much simpler-the Nazis knock on your door and ask you if there are Jews in the house, when you are, in fact, hiding them in your attic. What does a Catholic do?

 

[Elizabeth502]

Let’s boil it down to something much simpler-the Nazis knock on your door and ask you if there are Jews in the house, when you are, in fact, hiding them in your attic. What does a Catholic do?

Unless you’re just asking the question rhetorically, this was precisely the situation discussed recently on CAL: the inquirer has no moral right to the knowledge (having sinister intentions); thus you have no obligation to provide the truth, and in fact the higher moral calling would be to protect the innocent hunted, just as the OP is also the innocent hunted.

 

[NoxSineStellae]

At the moment of truth this young girl chose purity and she chose forgiveness. Now God forgive me if I am wrong, but I would think Saint Maria would chose the virtue of truth as well.
God bless

She “chose purity”? Really? Being raped is choosing to be impure? Is this what the RCC espouses? That rape victims are unclean, and it’s better to be dead than impure, through no fault of your own? This is what your words are implying.

The only way she chose “purity” was if she resisted the urge to consensually fornicate with him, and was killed for it. An 11 year old girl trying to avoid RAPE is not choosing to be “pure”. I was a preschooler when I was sexually assaulted by a grown man. Since I fought to get away but survived, knew it was wrong but didn’t shout out anything about SIN, I guess that’s when I lost any chance at sainthood.

Maria Goretti is an exemplary model of loving forgiveness. But every time I hear about her being a role model for “purity” I want to vomit and run as far away from the RCC as possible.

 

[RachelsAlumni]

An old boyfriend actually gave me some really good advice when it comes to giving men the brush off. He said it’s always best to be very direct. Just tell the guy you are not interested in him. Don’t leave any room for doubt or wishful thinking.

Telling a man you have a boyfriend makes him think, “well, if it weren’t for the boyfriend then she would go out with me”. That’s the problem with excuses, he’ll take them to mean that you are interested *except for * whatever ‘excuse’ you give. So it’s always best just to be upfront.

Now if you’re inclined to lie you could tell him to leave you alone or your brothers, Bubba, Big Jim, Duke and Slim might just decide to take matters into their own hands once the oldest, Bruiser, gets out of prison in a few days.

I’m thinking along the lines of the Southern Home Security System:

HOW TO INSTALL A HOME SECURITY SYSTEM IN THE SOUTH

Go to a second-hand store and buy a pair of men’s used size 14-16 work boots.

Place them on your front porch, along with a copy of Guns & Ammo Magazine.

Put a few giant dog dishes next to the boots and magazines.

Leave a note on your door that reads:

Hey Bubba, Big Jim, Duke and Slim,

I went for more ammo. Back in an hour. Don’t mess with the pit bulls-- they attacked the mailman this morning and messed him up real bad. I don’t think Killer took part in it, but it was hard to tell from all the blood. Anyway, I locked all four of 'em in the house. Better wait outside.

Cooter

Seriously, though, do let your boss and the police know about this guy. He sounds really creepy.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

An old boyfriend actually gave me some really good advice when it comes to giving men the brush off. He said it’s always best to be very direct. Just tell the guy you are not interested in him. Don’t leave any room for doubt or wishful thinking.

Telling a man you have a boyfriend makes him think, “well, if it weren’t for the boyfriend then she would go out with me”. That’s the problem with excuses, he’ll take them to mean that you are interested *except for * whatever ‘excuse’ you give. So it’s always best just to be upfront.

Now if you’re inclined to lie you could tell him to leave you alone or your brothers, Bubba, Big Jim, Duke and Slim might just decide to take matters into their own hands once the oldest, Bruiser, gets out of prison in a few days.

I’m thinking along the lines of the Southern Home Security System:

Seriously, though, do let your boss and the police know about this guy. He sounds really creepy.

I love it! Redneck common sense.And from California, too. There’s hope for our country!
Seriously, do the above AND make friends with those cops nearby.The police can be very helpful in these situations.See if there’s a woman cop at the station you can talk to. See if they can drop in on you occasionally at work.Police presence is a good thing.God bless!