Is it acceptable for a priest to YELL and then HANG up??

[JimR-OCDS]

I know its hard for some Catholics to accept, but there are some bad priest in the world.

I’ve known priest who entered the seminary in the 9th grade, due to pressure from their parents to give one of their sons to God in the priesthood. The result, a man who later in life hates the priesthood he was forced into and he takes it out on everyone he comes in contact with.

Fortunately today, the screening process for candidates to the priesthood is better. However, we’ll still end up with bad priest, bad bishops and even bad Popes on occasion.

Pray for them anyway.

Jim

 

[Lee_M]

I know its hard for some Catholics to accept, but there are some bad priest in the world.

I’ve known priest who entered the seminary in the 9th grade, due to pressure from their parents to give one of their sons to God in the priesthood. The result, a man who later in life hates the priesthood he was forced into and he takes it out on everyone he comes in contact with.

Fortunately today, the screening process for candidates to the priesthood is better. However, we’ll still end up with bad priest, bad bishops and even bad Popes on occasion.

Pray for them anyway.

Jim

 

[rstegeman]

So, assuming that the priest made a mistake, we find it okay to offer the advice of leaving the parish and find a better priest? Yes there are bad priests but there are also good priests that make the occasional mistake. Do we have any idea of what was happening in his life or what was on his mind when he made this call? No we don’t. Regardless, it doesn’t make his actions any more right or wrong, but I’m sure we’ve all had someone we love yell at us when there is no apparent justification. Do we up and leave those people?

It’s well known that we have a shortage of priests. This leads to parish priest being stretched to their utmost limits for time. Maintaining the facilities, raising money for the parish and the school, working with the school to ensure a proper Catholic curriculum, sacrament preparation, Mass preparation, visiting the sick, etc. etc. etc. Add to all of that the unrealistic expectation that he do no wrong and is wam and accommodating at all times. We always expect our parish priest to be there for us, but how often are we there for them?

This was not directed at the OP, but to many others who are so eager to bash the priest in question. To the OP, if this is the first time this has happened, give him the benefit of the doubt and try again. If he continues to be callous and becomes a TRUE roadblock to your fiance from coming into full communion with the Catholic Church, then I would agree, it might be time to look at a different parish.

 

[Paco_Nyad]

First, let me give you the background… Josh (my fiance) is taking RCIA classes in order to join the church, and I had been his sponsor through it all. Well, apparently the priest decides that girlfriends/fiances can’t be sponsors… and Josh and I looked it up and couldn’t find anywhere in church documents where it said that (I had started a post about this last month… the majority of the feedback said, talk to the priest). So we were trying to get ahold of the priest.

Okay… so Sunday night Josh has his class. We had been making phone calls to the church office and to the priest’s office, but never heard back (We had been trying to get ahold of the priest to find out about the sponsor situation and Josh had a few questions about confession) So the RCIA instructor, Mary, says to just shove a note under the door… she said father would be HAPPY to talk to us about our questions.

Monday morning rolls around and father calls. I wasn’t there, but Josh said he asked father about his first confession, like when the appropriate times were. And then he said to father:
Josh: “Also, Mary said that you didn’t want Sarah can’t be my sponsor… would you please explain to me why not? We tried looking it up, but we couldn’t find anything.”
Father: “Are you challenging my rules?”
Josh: “No, Father… it isn’t a problem if she can’t be my sponsor. I was just wondering why.”
Father: “If you don’t like my rules, don’t come to my church.”
Josh: “I love the church, we really enjoy going there. Following rules is not a problem, I just wanted to understand. This is a learning process for me.”
Father: “Don’t come to my church if you can’t follow rules”
Josh: “I…”
Then he hears that Father has hung up on him… HUNG UP!

So now we are at a loss of what to do. Me being a sponsor wasn’t a huge problem AT ALL! His grandparents would have come to see him make his confirmation anyway, so they would have gladly been sponsors… Josh doesn’t want to finish RCIA at a church where he can’t even talk to the priest… and he is supposed to make his first confession to this man. This is a small parish, and for it to take two weeks for the priest to call back is rediculous…

I dunno, we’re kinda upset that a priest would yell and hang up on someone that is eager about joining the church. Doesn’t he know that would put most people off? There is another church near by that we attend sometimes, and are hoping that they will let him finish there…

Thoughts/Comments??

There are always at least two sides to every story. We know nothing about voice inflections, just how many phone calls your fiance did make, etc. etc.

While it would be best if no one ever spoke that way we all have out limits – including priests who are human too.

You have a good instinct in changing parishes. You need to be nourished, not treated poorly.

 

[forever_always]

This was not directed at the OP, but to many others who are so eager to bash the priest in question. To the OP, if this is the first time this has happened, give him the benefit of the doubt and try again. If he continues to be callous and becomes a TRUE roadblock to your fiance from coming into full communion with the Catholic Church, then I would agree, it might be time to look at a different parish.

The first time it was directly at us… other stories we have heard… (such as stories about women, but that is a different topic) were never something we heard directly. The priest should be someone leading others to Christ, not pushing them away =\

 

[forever_always]

There are always at least two sides to every story. We know nothing about voice inflections, just how many phone calls your fiance did make, etc. etc.

While it would be best if no one ever spoke that way we all have out limits – including priests who are human too.

You have a good instinct in changing parishes. You need to be nourished, not treated poorly.

I agree that priests are human… however, we feel this was uncalled for.

He called up a near by parish and we are going to sit in on their RCIA classes. They said it isn’t a problem if we would like to switch programs.

 

[kage_ar]

Just a bit about yelling at someone… I know that within my own family, where we know each other well, that can be misunderstood -

DS says “why are you yelling at me” - me “I’m not yelling”

Me to DH “you don’t have to yell at me” - DH “I was not yelling”.

Sometimes, people do misunderstand each other

 

[Angels_Unaware]

I haven’t read this thread, so I don’t know whether anyone agrees with me, but you know what, the priest could have handled the situation less rudely, but I agree with him.

Why are you arguing with him and trying to look up the rule to challenge what he’s told you?

How hard is to get another sponsor? Your priest sees all kinds of people who are becoming Catholic for no other reason than to satisfy the whims of someone’s future in-laws. The Catholic church is not a social club, and the people in RCIA should have a spiritual purpose for becoming Catholic.

I would have been irritated by someone whining about “where does it say the girlfriend can’t be the sponsor” too. I would have tried to not be as rude as your priest, but I’m 100% on his side.

 

[ready]

Such behavior (yelling and hanging up) is unacceptable in a priest…and in all of us. If your heart tells you to go to another parish, please go! We want our priests to be as much like Christ for the sake of our own souls and for the souls of the children we will bring into our parishes.

 

[jean8]

First, let me give you the background… Josh (my fiance) is taking RCIA classes in order to join the church, and I had been his sponsor through it all. Well, apparently the priest decides that girlfriends/fiances can’t be sponsors… and Josh and I looked it up and couldn’t find anywhere in church documents where it said that (I had started a post about this last month… the majority of the feedback said, talk to the priest). So we were trying to get ahold of the priest.

Okay… so Sunday night Josh has his class. We had been making phone calls to the church office and to the priest’s office, but never heard back (We had been trying to get ahold of the priest to find out about the sponsor situation and Josh had a few questions about confession) So the RCIA instructor, Mary, says to just shove a note under the door… she said father would be HAPPY to talk to us about our questions.

Monday morning rolls around and father calls. I wasn’t there, but Josh said he asked father about his first confession, like when the appropriate times were. And then he said to father:
Josh: “Also, Mary said that you didn’t want Sarah can’t be my sponsor… would you please explain to me why not? We tried looking it up, but we couldn’t find anything.”
Father: “Are you challenging my rules?”
Josh: “No, Father… it isn’t a problem if she can’t be my sponsor. I was just wondering why.”
Father: “If you don’t like my rules, don’t come to my church.”
Josh: “I love the church, we really enjoy going there. Following rules is not a problem, I just wanted to understand. This is a learning process for me.”
Father: “Don’t come to my church if you can’t follow rules”
Josh: “I…”
Then he hears that Father has hung up on him… HUNG UP!

So now we are at a loss of what to do. Me being a sponsor wasn’t a huge problem AT ALL! His grandparents would have come to see him make his confirmation anyway, so they would have gladly been sponsors… Josh doesn’t want to finish RCIA at a church where he can’t even talk to the priest… and he is supposed to make his first confession to this man. This is a small parish, and for it to take two weeks for the priest to call back is rediculous…

I dunno, we’re kinda upset that a priest would yell and hang up on someone that is eager about joining the church. Doesn’t he know that would put most people off? There is another church near by that we attend sometimes, and are hoping that they will let him finish there…

Thoughts/Comments??

Forever,
I can think of a few comical reasons, but I’ll pass and just say, perhaps he was having a bad day. It is rude, in his position to act in this childish manner. I would try the call again, he should then apologize, but if he doesn’t , maybe he’s a busy guy.
Or you can go to a different church. If you choose this route, I would tell the priest why.
Don’t let people push you around, especially when you don’t deserve it. Stand up for yourself. With tact!
I raised my children up with this teaching. They all turned out great.

God bless,
jean8

 

[jmcrae]

I’m sorry, questioning of a rule? Can you please explain what you mean?

The priest is the boss of his parish. If he makes a rule, we all have to follow it, even if it directly contradicts something in the written documents, unless it would actually be a sin to do it. Ours is an oral and authoritarian religion; not a “religion of the book.” The priest’s word is law - always.

This is something that takes some getting used to, as a new Catholic, but in the end, it works really well.

If the priest has said that no spouses or fiancees are to be sponsors of RCIA candidates, then that’s just that. You have to follow it. He doesn’t need to give you a good reason.

There is a strong chance that other priests in the area also forbid spouses and fiancees to be sponsors, too, because this rule might be coming from the Bishop (and if the priest’s word is law for us, the Bishop’s word is law for the priests) so, maybe, your fiance should just get on with expanding his social circle, make friends with some good Catholic men, treat them to an evening of beer and poker at his place, and ask one of them to be his sponsor.

Problem solved.

And yes, I think the priest was rude, but it seems as though Josh kept asking the same question over and over again in different ways, and maybe he sounded like he was trying to get a different answer, after he already knew the answer.

 

[PJM]

First, let me give you the background… Josh (my fiance) is taking RCIA classes in order to join the church, and I had been his sponsor through it all. Well, apparently the priest decides that girlfriends/fiances can’t be sponsors… and Josh and I looked it up and couldn’t find anywhere in church documents where it said that (I had started a post about this last month… the majority of the feedback said, talk to the priest). So we were trying to get ahold of the priest.

Okay… so Sunday night Josh has his class. We had been making phone calls to the church office and to the priest’s office, but never heard back (We had been trying to get ahold of the priest to find out about the sponsor situation and Josh had a few questions about confession) So the RCIA instructor, Mary, says to just shove a note under the door… she said father would be HAPPY to talk to us about our questions.

Monday morning rolls around and father calls. I wasn’t there, but Josh said he asked father about his first confession, like when the appropriate times were. And then he said to father:
Josh: “Also, Mary said that you didn’t want Sarah can’t be my sponsor… would you please explain to me why not? We tried looking it up, but we couldn’t find anything.”
Father: “Are you challenging my rules?”
Josh: “No, Father… it isn’t a problem if she can’t be my sponsor. I was just wondering why.”
Father: “If you don’t like my rules, don’t come to my church.”
Josh: “I love the church, we really enjoy going there. Following rules is not a problem, I just wanted to understand. This is a learning process for me.”
Father: “Don’t come to my church if you can’t follow rules”
Josh: “I…”
Then he hears that Father has hung up on him… HUNG UP!

So now we are at a loss of what to do. Me being a sponsor wasn’t a huge problem AT ALL! His grandparents would have come to see him make his confirmation anyway, so they would have gladly been sponsors… Josh doesn’t want to finish RCIA at a church where he can’t even talk to the priest… and he is supposed to make his first confession to this man. This is a small parish, and for it to take two weeks for the priest to call back is rediculous…

I dunno, we’re kinda upset that a priest would yell and hang up on someone that is eager about joining the church. Doesn’t he know that would put most people off? There is another church near by that we attend sometimes, and are hoping that they will let him finish there…

Thoughts/Comments??

No excuse from the priest to have acted this way, even if provoked:blush:

My suggestion, if at all possible find a different Catholic parish and priest.

As an RCIA instructer myself, we do not permit engaged couples to be each others sponsors for a very Practical reason.

The idea behind a sponser is not simply to answer questions for you, because your RCIA team, and your priest can also do that.

A major responsibility of a RCIA sponsors lies in the fact that they are to monitor progress and future adherence to Church Laws and practices. This of course would be very difficult to do if you were to marry. They are to keep you on the “straight and narrow spiritual road.”

So it is a common policy, intended for the betterment of your soul:thumbsup:

On behalf of the Catholic Community, please allow me to appologize on behalf of an obviously stressed out Priest. They too are human

Remember my friends that we ask God to only forgive us to the degree thatwe forgive everyone else “Forgive us our trasspasses as we forgive those who trapass against us.” Can I get a BIG AMEN!!!

 

[Benedict108]

My experience with the RCIA has led me to believe that the priest was genuinely looking out for your boyfriend. As was mentioned in the earlier postings, if there is trouble between you and him in the futuer, he can lose his sponsor or be shaken in his faith.

Nevertheless, if you are looking for rules refer to Code of Canon Law 892, 893 and 874. The priest can step in if he feels that a sponsor is not suitable and he is providing another opportunity for your boyfriend to acquire another sponsor. It doesn’t mean that you cannot still continue to help your boyfriend.

As far as the conduct on the phone, it was harsh to hang up, but he might very well have been offended. I think it is matter of both parties getting together and talking it out. I am not saying he was right in what he did, but forgiveness is part of our faith. At least try to settle the problem before you go off to another parish.

Pax tecum.

 

[JPUSC]

I haven’t read this thread, so I don’t know whether anyone agrees with me, but you know what, the priest could have handled the situation less rudely, but I agree with him.

Why are you arguing with him and trying to look up the rule to challenge what he’s told you?

How hard is to get another sponsor? Your priest sees all kinds of people who are becoming Catholic for no other reason than to satisfy the whims of someone’s future in-laws. The Catholic church is not a social club, and the people in RCIA should have a spiritual purpose for becoming Catholic.

I would have been irritated by someone whining about “where does it say the girlfriend can’t be the sponsor” too. I would have tried to not be as rude as your priest, but I’m 100% on his side.

If someone is converting to Catholicism, it is most likely he knows very few Catholics. It would be hard to find a sponsor as his family members are most likely non-Catholics. I think a fiance would make a better sponsor than some random parishioner he doesn’t even know well.

I think a priest should be careful not to scare away people interested in joining the Church. I could imagine how difficult it must be for someone to become part of a new environment/experience and not feeling welcomed with open arms.

I think becoming Catholic for one’s spouse is an honorable thing. Religion is something very personal and important to a person - it is an identity. The fact that someone is converting for the sake of a spouse shows real commitment and the fact that he’s joining the Catholic Church is good for his soul. The poster has also indicated that her fiance is quite enthusiastic about becoming a Catholic.

There are far more serious things to worry about other than thinking that the Church is becoming a “social club” - like the growing number of ex-Catholics.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

If someone is converting to Catholicism, it is most likely he knows very few Catholics. It would be hard to find a sponsor as his family members are most likely non-Catholics. I think a fiance would make a better sponsor than some random parishioner he doesn’t even know well.

I think a priest should be careful not to scare away people interested in joining the Church. I could imagine how difficult it must be for someone to become part of a new environment/experience and not feeling welcomed with open arms.

I think becoming Catholic for one’s spouse is an honorable thing. Religion is something very personal and important to a person - it is an identity. The fact that someone is converting for the sake of a spouse shows real commitment and the fact that he’s joining the Catholic Church is good for his soul. The poster has also indicated that her fiance is quite enthusiastic about becoming a Catholic.

There are far more serious things to worry about other than thinking that the Church is becoming a “social club” - like the growing number of ex-Catholics.

Those are all noble and valid thoughts, but you’re not the priest.

From the way I understand her story, they were told she couldn’t be his sponsor. (Now, why this decision is happening in February, right before Lent, instead of in August or September I don’t know. That’s a pretty good question for her, too. Did they just waltz in to RCIA recently?)

Instead of saying, well, Father says we can’t do this, her fiance goes and looks it up and then asks the priest to show him where it is written they can’t be each others’ sponsors. He doesn’t even ask, “Father, could you please explain to me why you’ve made this decision?” Instead, it sounds to me, from where I am sitting, like my teenage child whining and arguing about why they can’t do something just because I said they couldn’t.

I understand his irritation. It is certainly not acceptable to be rude, but I do understand. And then, to top it off, she comes here and posts repeatedly, in what looks like an attempt to rile up sympathy for herself against the priest, and even questions someone who supported the priests’ decision.

That just strikes me as whining. Sure, the priest was rude, and that was uncalled for. We can all agree with that. But it doesn’t mean this couple has handled this with any humility or maturity, either.

 

[JPUSC]

Those are all noble and valid thoughts, but you’re not the priest.

From the way I understand her story, they were told she couldn’t be his sponsor. (Now, why this decision is happening in February, right before Lent, instead of in August or September I don’t know. That’s a pretty good question for her, too. Did they just waltz in to RCIA recently?)

Instead of saying, well, Father says we can’t do this, her fiance goes and looks it up and then asks the priest to show him where it is written they can’t be each others’ sponsors. He doesn’t even ask, “Father, could you please explain to me why you’ve made this decision?” Instead, it sounds to me, from where I am sitting, like my teenage child whining and arguing about why they can’t do something just because I said they couldn’t.

I understand his irritation. It is certainly not acceptable to be rude, but I do understand. And then, to top it off, she comes here and posts repeatedly, in what looks like an attempt to rile up sympathy for herself against the priest, and even questions someone who supported the priests’ decision.

That just strikes me as whining. Sure, the priest was rude, and that was uncalled for. We can all agree with that. But it doesn’t mean this couple has handled this with any humility or maturity, either.

She says that the RCIA director knew that she was planning to be the sponsor of her fiance, then just two weeks ago said the director said she can’t. The rule was allegedly never explained in the beginning.

He did ask in a sense, “Father, could you please explain to me why you’ve made this decision?” and added, “I just wanted to understand. This is a learning process for me.”

 

[Angels_Unaware]

She says that the RCIA director knew that she was planning to be the sponsor of her fiance, then just two weeks ago said the director said she can’t. The rule was allegedly never explained in the beginning.

He did ask in a sense, “Father, could you please explain to me why you’ve made this decision?” and added, “I just wanted to understand. This is a learning process for me.”

In that case, you may be right. If he did ask the above, then it does sound as if he is just being unnecessarily rude. And I don’t agree at all with changing sponsors at this point. That is just disruptive.

 

[Jea9]

I agree that priests are human… however, we feel this was uncalled for.

He called up a near by parish and we are going to sit in on their RCIA classes. They said it isn’t a problem if we would like to switch programs.

I’m just wondering, hypothetically, if you asked your fiance to do something for you–say pick up some drycleaning–and he responded in an inappropriate manner yelling at you for asking him to do something so menial or unimportant and didn’t you know he had better things to do. Would you end your engagement? I’m assuming not. I’m also assuming that if a friend did this to you, you would not end the friendship. You posted earlier that he is a very traditional priest. I am not defending his actions, hanging up is certainly rude…but what if this other priest is super nice but performs Liturgical abuses. I can’t imagine allowing something like this to take you from a good parish, with a traditional priest. I live in a really rural area and there are a few parishes in driving distance…two of them have priests that are VERY nice but kind of like to make the rules up as they go along; and one parish has a priest who is a VERY cantankerous old man but is a very traditional priest. He gives fire and brimstone type homilies and is not afraid to tell people when they are not living as Catholics should. I would take this priest over the other two ANY day.

I’m not saying anything about your or your fiance’s Faith, I’m just surprised that someone would leave a parish over this ONE thing…and more surprised that you would get advice from others to do this. I think it sounds pretty petty (but, I’ll agree with other posters that we may not have the whole story).

 

[damooster]

Just to add my two cents to this …

While the priest was rude, I agree with the other posters that suggest you stay where you’re at. Leaving over something like this is kind of petty. Running from conflict and disagreements will leave you, well, running a lot.

Best of luck to you regardless of what you decide. I’ll be praying for you and your fiance.

 

[Shin]

I know a priest like this – in the one case, for example this priest is a diabetic. When his blood sugar gets low – if he needs his insulin shot – his temper flares.

It’s something one just has to understand.

Every priest is a human being with various flaws and limitations – the standards are high, but each in some ways doesn’t fit, just like other people.

Each priest has a certain authority over how things are done in his parish. It is his flock. And I can easily think of good reasons why he does things the way he does regarding sponsors – frankly it normally is not allowed, because these are two different kinds of relationships that can and normally do conflict.

Of course he should’ve explained why and not acted how he did – but we have to be charitable, we don’t know what was going on inside. We have bad days, so do priests.

We have to look to the Lord in the priest, but understand the part that is only completely human.

It’s good to overcome difficulties on the journey home, it shows character and strength and the hand of the Lord.