Is it Acceptable to Believe Only Catholics ARE Saved?

[PietroPaolo]

The “ask an apologist” question as of this posting is:

“Is it permissible for me to believe that only Catholics **can be **saved?”

Which the answer is clearly no, for that violates Church teaching on the possibly of salvation (through the Church) for those who, through no fault of their own, find themselves outside her visible confines.

However, a more interesting and more difficult question, is whether it is permissible to believe that only Catholics are in fact saved. Such a belief would enable a person to assent to the potentiality of someone being saved even though they are outside the visible confines of the Church, but also believe that such a path to Heaven is so difficult (without the Sacraments, especially confession and the Eucharist, and without the certain teaching of the Magisterium as a guide) that no one (or very, very few people) ever actualize that potency. Such a position would seem to avoid the errors of Feeneyism and of rejecting any Church teaching and thus would seem to be a legitimate position for a Catholic to take. It would also, by leaving open the possibility of salvation apart from visible membership in the Church, avoid the error of judging anyone’s soul (for that one particular non-Catholic might be the very, very, very rare exception) while still keeping the weight of extra evclesiam nulla salus undiminished.

Disclaimer: I’m not saying Church teaching requires Catholics to take this position, I’m simply suggesting such a position is possible and is in complete harmony with Church teaching.

 

[bisco]

is it possible some catholics aren’t saved?

 

[meltzerboy]

The “ask an apologist” question as of this posting is:

“Is it permissible for me to believe that only Catholics **can be **saved?”

Which the answer is clearly no, for that violates Church teaching on the possibly of salvation (through the Church) for those who, through no fault of their own, find themselves outside her visible confines.

However, a more interesting and more difficult question, is whether it is permissible to believe that only Catholics are in fact saved. Such a belief would enable a person to assent to the potentiality of someone being saved even though they are outside the visible confines of the Church, but also believe that such a path to Heaven is so difficult (without the Sacraments, especially confession and the Eucharist, and without the certain teaching of the Magisterium as a guide) that no one (or very, very few people) ever actualize that potency. Such a position would seem to avoid the errors of Feeneyism and of rejecting any Church teaching and thus would seem to be a legitimate position for a Catholic to take. It would also, by leaving open the possibility of salvation apart from visible membership in the Church, avoid the error of judging anyone’s soul (for that one particular non-Catholic might be the very, very, very rare exception) while still keeping the weight of extra evclesiam nulla salus undiminished.

Disclaimer: I’m not saying Church teaching requires Catholics to take this position, I’m simply suggesting such a position is possible and is in complete harmony with Church teaching.

Apart from the fact that, being Jewish, I hardly believe this to be true since it runs contrary to Jewish teaching, I also think the notion persists in violating the teaching of the Church. This is because people who have never made contact with the Church are deemed to have invincible ignorance and, if they lovingly follow their own faith or moral conscience, can be saved. Now that does not mean they are saved by any force other than the Church (although they would have no way of knowing this), but they do have a viable opportunity to be saved nonetheless. To my mind, only an unjust god would not take this into account.

 

[bisco]

for those who haven’t heard of the church, or have no access, it is possible that they can be saved if they live a life pleasing to God.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

If you really want to know, ask your Priest.

Mine has told me that it is NOT only Catholics who will be saved.

Some Catholics will not enter Heaven.

 

[inocente]

When Ziva died, St Peter gave her a tour around heaven. She noticed a small walled-off area and asked what’s behind the wall. “That’s the Catholics, they believe they’re the only ones here and we don’t like to disappoint them.”

 

[bisco]

is that a true revelation?

 

[PietroPaolo]

All of you missed the point of my question, perhaps I phrased it poorly. I’m not asking if it is possible that only Catholics CAN BE saved. We all know the answer to that is no. I’m also not saying all Catholics are saved (that would seem to also be no).

I’m asking, is it permissible for a Catholic to believe that, while it is theoretically possible for non-Catholics to be saved, most or all of them are not, in fact, saved?

They are two very different questions. The first question (whether it is possible for non-Catholics to be saved) turns on whether or not being outside the visible Church is itself enough to be damned. The answer is no because of the invincibly ignorant (God doesn’t require the impossible of us). My question hinges on the importance of the Eucharist as the supreme path to holiness, the importance of the Magisterium to faithfully shepherd us, and on the ability of Catholics to seek forgiveness of post-baptismal mortal sins through sacramental confession. Remember, Christ made the Church (and gave her the Sacraments and Magisterium) to help us get to heaven. Catholics make use of these helps, non-Catholics don’t. It seems absurd to think they make no difference in the end (why would Christ have bothered to found a Church at all?)

But, more to the point, the question isn’t even so much as to whether you happen to hold this position, but whether it is acceptable for a Catholic to. I certainly can see someone arguing that Catholics don’t have to hold this position, but I can’t see how it is forbidden to Catholics, unlike the position that only Catholics can be saved, which is forbidden.

Thus, I am arguing that:

Is it permissible to believe only Catholics can be saved? No.
Is it permissible to believe only Catholics* are actually saved? Yes.

*or mostly Catholics

Hopefully, that clarifies.

 

[bisco]

yes, sorry, i have no idea and went off on a tangent. if you want an answer, instead of opinions, you should probably ask an apologist. if you want an opinion, i would say:

no, it is not acceptable for catholics to believe that only catholics are saved, because the church does not teach that. the church teaches that all ‘can be’ saved, and that we don’t know who is saved unless they have been canonized.

 

[PietroPaolo]

yes, sorry, i have no idea and went off on a tangent. if you want an answer, instead of opinions, you should probably ask an apologist. if you want an opinion, i would say:

no, it is not acceptable for catholics to believe that only catholics are saved, because the church does not teach that. the church teaches that all ‘can be’ saved, and that we don’t know who is saved unless they have been canonized.

Just looking for opinions. Wouldn’t 100% of canonized saints being Catholic count as evidence for my proposition?

 

[clem456]

God saves who he wills. A person does not need to be an explicit and professing member of the Catholic Church in this life to be saved. God is not bound by the sacraments (the Church is a sacrament).

That being said, if a person is saved, he is part of the Catholic Church. There are no denominations in heaven. For instance, a Baptist who is united to God in heaven is not singing the praises of a denomination, but is praising God, with the angels and saints, in the unity of the “holos”. All voices in paradise praise God unified as one. God’s Church is composed of all those who are in communion with him, hence all those united to him are part of his Church. The visible sign (sacrament) of that salvation is the Catholic Church. The Church is the necessary ark for salvation.
The CCC beautifully expresses this here:

The Church - mystery of men’s union with God

772 It is in the Church that Christ fulfills and reveals his own mystery as the purpose of God’s plan: "to unite all things in him."189 St. Paul calls the nuptial union of Christ and the Church “a great mystery.” Because she is united to Christ as to her bridegroom, she becomes a mystery in her turn.190 Contemplating this mystery in her, Paul exclaims: "Christ in you, the hope of glory."191

773 In the Church this communion of men with God, in the “love [that] never ends,” is the purpose which governs everything in her that is a sacramental means, tied to this passing world.192 "[The Church’s] structure is totally ordered to the holiness of Christ’s members. And holiness is measured according to the ‘great mystery’ in which the Bride responds with the gift of love to the gift of the Bridegroom."193 Mary goes before us all in the holiness that is the Church’s mystery as "the bride without spot or wrinkle."194 This is why the “Marian” dimension of the Church precedes the "Petrine."195

The universal Sacrament of Salvation

774 The Greek word mysterion was translated into Latin by two terms: mysterium and sacramentum. In later usage the term sacramentum emphasizes the visible sign of the hidden reality of salvation which was indicated by the term mysterium. In this sense, Christ himself is the mystery of salvation: "For there is no other mystery of God, except Christ."196 The saving work of his holy and sanctifying humanity is the sacrament of salvation, which is revealed and active in the Church’s sacraments (which the Eastern Churches also call “the holy mysteries”). The seven sacraments are the signs and instruments by which the Holy Spirit spreads the grace of Christ the head throughout the Church which is his Body. The Church, then, both contains and communicates the invisible grace she signifies. It is in this analogical sense, that the Church is called a “sacrament.”

775 "The Church, in Christ, is like a sacrament - a sign and instrument, that is, of communion with God and of unity among all men."197 The Church’s first purpose is to be the sacrament of the inner union of men with God. Because men’s communion with one another is rooted in that union with God, the Church is also the sacrament of the unity of the human race. In her, this unity is already begun, since she gathers men “from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues”;198 at the same time, the Church is the “sign and instrument” of the full realization of the unity yet to come.

776 As sacrament, the Church is Christ’s instrument. “She is taken up by him also as the instrument for the salvation of all,” “the universal sacrament of salvation,” by which Christ is "at once manifesting and actualizing the mystery of God’s love for men."199 The Church “is the visible plan of God’s love for humanity,” because God desires "that the whole human race may become one People of God, form one Body of Christ, and be built up into one temple of the Holy Spirit."200

 

[porthos11]

That only Catholics can be saved is contrary to Church teaching. Those who hold on to this Feenyist opinion are holding on to heresy.

What IS acceptable to believe (and is in fact the truth), is that there are only Catholics in heaven.

 

[bisco]

he has already stating these things. his question is, ‘is it acceptable to believe that only catholics are saved’? not ‘can be’, not ‘have been’, but ‘will be’. i assume he is asking for church authority.

 

[bisco]

Just looking for opinions. Wouldn’t 100% of canonized saints being Catholic count as evidence for my proposition?

i would have to say this is not proof. the method for canonizing saints wouldn’t apply to non catholics, and is is not likely representative of all who will be saved.

 

[bisco]

has anyone from the old testament been saved?

 

[clem456]

has anyone from the old testament been saved?

God takes the initiative of universal redeeming love

604 By giving up his own Son for our sins, God manifests that his plan for us is one of benevolent love, prior to any merit on our part: "In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins."408 God "shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us."409

605 At the end of the parable of the lost sheep Jesus recalled that God’s love excludes no one: "So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish."410 He affirms that he came “to give his life as a ransom for many”; this last term is not restrictive, but contrasts the whole of humanity with the unique person of the redeemer who hands himself over to save us.411 The Church, following the apostles, teaches that Christ died for all men without exception: "There is not, never has been, and never will be a single human being for whom Christ did not suffer."412

 

[PietroPaolo]

God saves who he wills. A person does not need to be an explicit and professing member of the Catholic Church in this life to be saved. God is not bound by the sacraments (the Church is a sacrament).

That being said, if a person is saved, he is part of the Catholic Church. There are no denominations in heaven. For instance, a Baptist who is united to God in heaven is not singing the praises of a denomination, but is praising God, with the angels and saints, in the unity of the “holos”. All voices in paradise praise God unified as one. God’s Church is composed of all those who are in communion with him, hence all those united to him are part of his Church. The visible sign (sacrament) of that salvation is the Catholic Church. The Church is the necessary ark for salvation.
The CCC beautifully expresses this here:

Right, I know, but that isn’t the question I posed.

 

[PietroPaolo]

Permissible? Do you mean does the Catholic church “allow” you to believe this?
Permissible…by who?—your own logic?

You can, of course, believe what you want. You have your own mind and thoughts and belief process. No one can stop you from believing something.
I don’t think the Catholic church has a teaching on whether you are “allowed” to believe this. Though someone else might be able to answer that for sure.

If you did believe the above, though, your belief would not be accurate.

.

You’re not Catholic, so perhaps you don’t understand what it means to be Catholic. In part, in mean submitting to the teaching authority of the Church (as it can teach infallibly). Thus, a Catholic would not be a good Catholic (thus not permitted) to believe Jesus didn’t rise from the dead or that Mary isn’t in heaven or any number of other things. It is in this sense that I’m asking. Whether or not the belief is accurate, in your opinion, is entirely beside the point.

 

[PietroPaolo]

That only Catholics can be saved is contrary to Church teaching. Those who hold on to this Feenyist opinion are holding on to heresy.
.

Yes, I know (as I stated in my original post) that Feenyism is heresy. However, I am not asking whether Catholics are free to believe that only Catholics can be saved. I’m asking whether Catholics are free to believe that only Catholics are actually saved. The two questions are entirely distinct. Believing it is theoretically possible for people to be saved outside the Church (something the Church requires) and believing that such a possibility is actually realized (or is only realized by a very small amount of ppl) are two entirely different things.

What IS acceptable to believe (and is in fact the truth), is that there are only Catholics in heaven

Yes, but this also has no bearing on the original post, which concerns not whether ppl become Catholic upon entering Heaven, but whether ppl who weren’t make it to Heaven in the first place.

 

[PietroPaolo]

he has already stating these things. his question is, ‘is it acceptable to believe that only catholics are saved’? not ‘can be’, not ‘have been’, but ‘will be’. i assume he is asking for church authority.

Bingo!