Is it acceptable?

[asteroid]

Is it acceptable:

a) To make the congregation stand rather than kneel during the consecration saying that this is “an older tradition”

b) To replace the Nicene creed on a Sunday with the Apostles creed

c) To change the words of the liturgy (eg in the Scriptural quotations in the consecration to change the word “disciples” to “friends”)

I’m just wondering - and at the moment I’m taking a break from that particular parish and heading off elsewhere so apart from being inconvenienced I’m not being liturgically affected! I’m sure I’d have more to question (moan about) otherwise.

Thank you.

Does anyone know who it was who said that you can often tell a lot about a priest’s views on the Eucharist by their manner during the elevation of the host in the mass? Or whether there is any truth in that statement.

 

[thistle]

Is it acceptable:

a) To make the congregation stand rather than kneel during the consecration saying that this is “an older tradition”

b) To replace the Nicene creed on a Sunday with the Apostles creed
c) To change the words of the liturgy (eg in the Scriptural quotations in the consecration to change the word “disciples” to “friends”)

I’m just wondering - and at the moment I’m taking a break from that particular parish and heading off elsewhere so apart from being inconvenienced I’m not being liturgically affected! I’m sure I’d have more to question (moan about) otherwise.

Thank you.

Does anyone know who it was who said that you can often tell a lot about a priest’s views on the Eucharist by their manner during the elevation of the host in the mass? Or whether there is any truth in that statement.

It is NOT obligatory to say the Nicene Creed on Sundays at Mass. Here in the Philippines we only say the Apostles Creed and never the Nicene Creed.

The GIRM simply requires the Creed be said. It does not specify which one.

 

[Revs96]

Either Credo is fine, many Missals include both for a reason. The other two changes are changes people added in without permission. They are not allowed.

 

[puzzleannie]

Is it acceptable:

a) To make the congregation stand rather than kneel during the consecration saying that this is “an older tradition”

 

[Mrs_Sally]

There is a Eucharistic Prayer that is written with the word ‘friends’ so if the priest chooses that option it is fine. What shouldn’t be happening is cutting and pasting several versions together to create a completely new version. If the priest says something you are not familiar with, you should ask him to tell you about it. I have learned many valuable things about church history, liturgy, and theology by asking my priest.

 

[benedictgal]

if it is the order of the local bishop

 

[choy]

It is NOT obligatory to say the Nicene Creed on Sundays at Mass. Here in the Philippines we only say the Apostles Creed and never the Nicene Creed.

The GIRM simply requires the Creed be said. It does not specify which one.

the CBCP issued the directive for all archdiocese in the Philippines to use only the Apostle’s Creed. but i think the Nicene Creed is used during Easter

i remember some parishes in the past do use Nicene Creed. i don’t know if they changed since. this is the one in GreenHills beside Xavier School, forgot the name of the parish

 

[roadsend]

"The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.53 "

On November 7, 2000, Cardinal Jorge Arturo Medina Estavez, prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments, sent a response to the questions of an American bishop about the new regulations for the celebration of Mass [Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani]. The questions [dubia] concerned the posture and gestures of the people at Mass, and placement of the tabernacle. A facsimile of the response, written in English, appears below.

CONGREGATIO DE CULTU DIVINO ET DISCIPLINA SACRAMENTORUM

Prot. n. 2372/00/L

Responses to Dubia

1. Is it the case that the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, by No. 43 of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, intends to prohibit the faithful from kneeling during any part of the Mass except during the Consecration, that is, to prohibit the faithful from **kneeling after the Agnus Dei and following the reception of Holy Communion?

Response: Negative.
** (my bolds)
2. Does the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments intend by Nos. 160-162, 244, or elsewhere in the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, that the people may no longer genuflect or bow as a sign of reverence to the Blessed Sacrament immediately before they receive Holy Communion?

Response: Negative.

1. Does the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments in the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani Nos. 314-315, or elsewhere, intend that a separate chapel for the reservation of the Most Blessed Sacrament within parish churches is to be preferred to a prominent and central location within the main body of the church, thus visible to the faithful during the celebration of the Mass?

Response: Negative, et ad mentem.

Mens: Within the norms specified by law, it pertains to the diocesan Bishop, in his capacity as moderator of the Sacred Liturgy in the particular Church entrusted to him, to exercise judgment regarding the most appropriate place for the reservation of the Most Blessed Sacrament, bearing foremost in mind the purpose of encouraging and enabling the faithful to visit and adore the Most Blessed Sacrament.

Vatican City, 7 November 2000

Jorge A. Card. MEDINA ESTAVEZ,
Cardinal Prefect

Francesco Pio Tamburrino
Archbishop Secretary

 

[zab]

The posture of kneeling signified penance in the early Church: the awareness of sin casts us to the ground! So thoroughly was kneeling identified with penance that the early Christians were forbidden to kneel on Sundays and during the Easter Season when the prevailing spirit of the liturgy was that of joy and thanksgiving. In the Middle Ages kneeling came to signify the homage of a vassal to his lord, and more recently this posture has come to signify adoration. It is for this reason that the bishops of this country have chosen the posture of kneeling for the entire Eucharistic Prayer.

The quote above is from the Committee on Divine Worship, *postures and gestures at Mass, *from the USCCB website
usccb.org/liturgy/girm/bul3.shtml

 

[japhy]

I don’t exactly know the specifics of the liturgy in North Wales… I’m writing from an American perspective…

a) To make the congregation stand rather than kneel during the consecration saying that this is “an older tradition”

In the Roman Rite, kneeling is the posture to observe from the epiclesis through the consecration of the Eucharistic Prayer. In some countries, you kneel for longer than that: in the US, you kneel for the whole Eucharistic Prayer. It is not up to the priest or bishop to change this rule. If you are prevented from kneeling for a good reason, you should make a profound bow (a bow of the body) when the priest genuflects after the consecration of the Host and of the Chalice. (The priest is supposed to genuflect!)

b) To replace the Nicene creed on a Sunday with the Apostles creed

Again, that depends where you are. The new third edition of the Roman Missal (which is not being used in many countries yet…) permits the use of either creed. The second edition (which is probably in use) does not, although perhaps the rule is different for different countries. In the US, the Nicene Creed is to be used, although the Apostles’ Creed may be used in Masses where children are the vast majority of the faithful.

c) To change the words of the liturgy (eg in the Scriptural quotations in the consecration to change the word “disciples” to “friends”)

No. A bishop or priest does not have permission to change whatever words he likes to other words. While there are places in the Missal that allow the celebrant to use a choice of words or phrases (or even to make up his own phrase), the Eucharistic Prayer is not one of those places. Be aware, however, that some Eucharistic Prayers do say “friends” instead of “disciples”… Eucharistic Prayer for Reconciliation I, for example, says “Again he gave you thanks, handed the cup to his friends” in the present English translation.

you can often tell a lot about a priest’s views on the Eucharist by their manner during the elevation of the host in the mass? Or whether there is any truth in that statement.

I don’t know who said it, but I would imagine there’s some truth in it. The priest is holding up the Glorious Body of our Lord for his adoration and ours; the bread has just changed in substance into Christ. That’s got to count for something, does it not?

 

[Arelcee]

It is NOT obligatory to say the Nicene Creed on Sundays at Mass. Here in the Philippines we only say the Apostles Creed and never the Nicene Creed.

The GIRM simply requires the Creed be said. It does not specify which one.

the CBCP issued the directive for all archdiocese in the Philippines to use only the Apostle’s Creed. but i think the Nicene Creed is used during Easter

i remember some parishes in the past do use Nicene Creed. i don’t know if they changed since. this is the one in GreenHills beside Xavier School, forgot the name of the parish

I’ve only experienced saying the Nicene Creed here in the Philippines only once. I believe that it was on Easter. I do find the Nicene Creed to be more complete though and I do wish that the CBCP give the option of using the Nicene Creed as well. But perhaps, with the implementation of the New Roman Missal, as @japhy mentioned, they won’t have to.

 

[asteroid]

Many thanks for everyone’s help, advice and often reassurance.

Everyone has been very helpful indeed.