Is it actually sinful not to help the needy?

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My answers are far from apathetic. Nothing in my words, within the context of our entire conversation, shows apathy, only discernment and a care for what our Tradition teaches on the matter. You will either see that, or gloss over it.

Here’s how I believe we should help those in poverty:
  1. As I said earlier, poverty in our North American society is not at all the same thing as poverty within biblical societies. Neither are our communities and cities anything like those in the Bible (Nazareth was like two small city blocks). I cannot properly speak of the situation within the US, but here in Canada, those who everyone says is “poor” live better than I, who am working for a living, do. They live off of the system, and never better themselves (why would they have to?!). Those on the street here have the opportunity to eat more daily meals than I do, for free. Poverty, in our time, could be made into a crutch or even a rouse. True poverty here, on the other hand, must be discovered, and is not at all obvious. I would help those who, like myself, are living in a state of poverty (I’m considered “working poor”), first, by discovering that they are in such a state, and this is possible through authentic relationships with, and knowledge of, other people. I will state the obvious: 98% of the time, you can’t love those you don’t know. Our Faith was always covenantal, and, again, covenant is family. 2% of the time, it is possible to transcend this. 1% of the time, this can be done in the manner like when the Samaritan found the man half-dead who had no one else, on whom, to depend. That’s not exactly a relationship either, but there’s obviously no impediments to a relationship starting since one party is unconscious. Yes, what I’m saying is that there’s impediments to starting relationships with people. Christian love from one Christian party to another Christian party is unconditional, it is true…but there is also an obligation from that other Christian party to the former Christian party, and this is within the Covenant. Another possibility of getting around this (and this is different than the former example and is the final 1% scenario) is when we Christians initially accept other Christian people we do not know only because of the Eucharist which is the foundation of our Covenant. We can, because of the Eucharist, accept someone we don’t know, by the fact that they are Christian. But, if they prove “unworthy” because they aren’t living according to the Tradition, we usually walk away from this person that we don’t know, don’t we? That’s why this forum is possible, and why authentic Catholic familial relationships can develop by means of it.
  2. I would help Christians first, since this is what Jesus means when he says “whatever you have done to the least of my brothers, you’ve done to me.” I would help the others afterwards in order to be a “light to the nations.” Think, by analogy, of our Lord’s words when he said, “to you it has been granted to know the Mysteries of the Kingdom of Heaven, but to them it has not been granted.” Different subject, similar hierarchical approach.
 
  1. I would try to help people as secretly as possible. Not only does this mean telling no one else of their situation, and the good that I did for them, but to, if possible (and this is hard), do it in a way that the actual poor persons, themselves, do not realize. An example of this is when St. Nicholas snuck into the house of the father who felt that he had no choice but to sell his daughters into prostitution to pay the family debts. St. Nicholas took the gold from the Church, sold it, snuck into that family’s house, left them the money when they were sleeping, and snuck away before they even realized it was him. This kind of anonymity is not always possible, but, if it is, this should be the route that one takes.
  2. Now, concerning my next point, I will confess that I have never done so, but, I should like to. When you give charity to someone, don’t give your used scraps (old clothes, food, etc). Give them something new that you would have bought for yourself…something of the best quality, that you would love if it were given to you. Give them fresh food, etc. Beautify the deed.
  3. I would also work with what I got here around me, in the present, in my life. Global communities make no sense, and probably never will. I can’t go beyond the power that I have to do good, here and in the now. How could I possibly dream of helping others, say, in Africa, not only whom I’ve never met, but also whom live in great oppression from their own corrupt governments. But, with the Church, in light of the final 1% scenario, it is possible to transcend this…but this should be done in the manner St. Paul did when taking up a collection for the “saints in Jerusalem,” and not through bureaucratic organizations that are connected to secular governments, institutions, and powers.
  4. This brings me to my next point. I would never trust governments, whether here or abroad. They care only about power. While there can be good leaders, I accept it as a fact that they will be few, and once in a lifetime, maybe.
  5. I’m a big fan of the idea, “feed a man a fish, and he will eat for a day; teach him to fish, and he will eat for a lifetime.”
 
  1. I’m not opposed to a group of Christians asking for monetary help in support of performing a good deed. But I do have a problem with this picture (which I will make up to illustrate a point): “Catholic Community Outreach Initiative Inc, has been helping people for over 40 years…look at all the good that we’ve done…we are so good…we need your help, yada, yada, yada.” Again how kosher would this be with Jesus’ words in Matthew 6. Charity, therefore, whether individual or collective should occur spontaneously in answer to a real life situation based upon relationship. Not become a machine that hypes itself up, and receives funding and legislative help from secular governments, institutions, and powers who are, truly, apathetic to charity and the Faith. Most of the time these governments, institutions, and powers are the ones partly responsible for the poor being poor in the first place!
  2. And, finally, with every charitable thing you do, do it 1) with or without feelings, 2) according to logic, 3) according to the discernment the Holy Spirit has given you through a knowledge of the sources of our Tradition, 4) with the theological end in mind.
 
tiny_augustine said:
  1. I’m not opposed to a group of Christians asking for monetary help in support of performing a good deed. But I do have a problem with this picture (which I will make up to illustrate a point): “Catholic Community Outreach Initiative Inc, has been helping people for over 40 years…look at all the good that we’ve done…we are so good…we need your help, yada, yada, yada.” Again how kosher would this be with Jesus’ words in Matthew 6. Charity, therefore, whether individual or collective should occur spontaneously in answer to a real life situation based upon relationship. Not become a machine that hypes itself up, and receives funding and legislative help from secular governments, institutions, and powers who are, truly, apathetic to charity and the Faith. Most of the time these governments, institutions, and powers are the ones partly responsible for the poor being poor in the first place!
  2. And, finally, with every charitable thing you do, do it 1) with or without feelings, 2) according to logic, 3) according to the discernment the Holy Spirit has given you through a knowledge of the sources of our Tradition, 4) with the theological end in mind.
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I do not necessarily disagree with any of the 9 points you listed. Yes, some people in poverty are those looking for a handout, with poor values, but this is why I donate to established charities who I trust are aware of the problem and how to circumvent it. But even those that abuse charity need to be helped, but in a different way.

As for myself, I live below the poverty level but I get enough disability insurance money to make ends meet. I live very simply, and the only unnecessary things I buy are things like music, a computer, and an airline ticket to visit my “daughter.”

When I turn 65 in a few years, I will lose all my work disability money and will not have enough money to live on. I do not know what I’ll do, and thinking about it produces great anxiety in me. I live in Los Angeles where rents have soared sky high.
 
Hey again, Rob. I’m sorry to hear about your situation. I’m sure that everyone here will pray for you.

I want to thank you for this fascinating discussion. You’ve helped me to clarify many things that I’ve been thinking about for years, and forced sparks against me that were necessary for me to develop even further ideas in accordance to our Tradition.

To continue our discussion I thought that maybe we can reflect on certain other questions:

At the beginning of Matthew 6, Jesus says either “beware of practicing your righteousness (often translated as “piety”) in front of men…” OR “beware of practicing your almsgiving…” We’re not sure which one is Matthew’s original since both are attested to in the earliest Gospel manuscripts. I take both as true since both agree with the context that follows, which concerns almsgiving, prayer, and fasting: “beware of practicing your covenant devotional righteousness which is almsgiving,” “almsgiving” here being a catch-all for alms, prayers, and fasting.

Would prayers and fasting for the poor (and, in this way, being assured of help going specifically to sincerely poor people, because of God’s discernment in fulfilling your prayer according to his Will) be just the same as almsgiving? I know that most people would probably say that all three (alms, prayer, and fasting) form a complimentary unit, but for the sake of argument, how would we answer this question?

And here’s a another really interesting question: if giving to a united effort that seeks to give to the poor (I won’t say charity, but we can at least agree on a spontaneous group of Christians giving to the poor based on actual relationships with, and knowledge of, people in their lives) is good, and considered charity in and of itself, would asking another person to pray for a third party be considered the same as if one has prayed for that third party themselves?

I don’t have answers to these questions yet. What do you think?
 
tiny_augustine said:
Hey again, Rob. I’m sorry to hear about your situation. I’m sure that everyone here will pray for you.

I want to thank you for this fascinating discussion. You’ve helped me to clarify many things that I’ve been thinking about for years, and forced sparks against me that were necessary for me to develop even further ideas in accordance to our Tradition.

To continue our discussion I thought that maybe we can reflect on certain other questions:

At the beginning of Matthew 6, Jesus says either “beware of practicing your righteousness (often translated as “piety”) in front of men…” OR “beware of practicing your almsgiving…” We’re not sure which one is Matthew’s original since both are attested to in the earliest Gospel manuscripts. I take both as true since both agree with the context that follows, which concerns almsgiving, prayer, and fasting: “beware of practicing your covenant devotional righteousness which is almsgiving,” “almsgiving” here being a catch-all for alms, prayers, and fasting.

Would prayers and fasting for the poor (and, in this way, being assured of help going specifically to sincerely poor people, because of God’s discernment in fulfilling your prayer according to his Will) be just the same as almsgiving? I know that most people would probably say that all three (alms, prayer, and fasting) form a complimentary unit, but for the sake of argument, how would we answer this question?

And here’s a another really interesting question: if giving to a united effort that seeks to give to the poor (I won’t say charity, but we can at least agree on a spontaneous group of Christians giving to the poor based on actual relationships with, and knowledge of, people in their lives) is good, and considered charity in and of itself, would asking another person to pray for a third party be considered the same as if one has prayed for that third party themselves?

I don’t have answers to these questions yet. What do you think?
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In all honesty, I do not have any answers to your questions. Maybe someone else reading this threat can provide you with an answer.
 
The commandment provides directional guidance only. Love your neighbour. It does not prescribe how you should do this. Do what you reasonably can. Consult your conscience. Honest judgement will serve you well.
 
IT is sinful if we don’t help poor provided we have means to help them
Also, I think church needs to make people aware that it is SINFUL if we don’t help poor.
 
Robert_Sock said:
I would even go as far as to say I believe our apathy towards refugees from the Middle East is sinful. Pope Francis is very vocal here but in all honesty, I never heard him call it sinful.
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Pope may not have called it SINFUL to neglect Middle East refugees but he has come very close to calling them sinful (at least indirectly). He may not have used the word “Sin” per se but if you read his statements about refugees I think you will agree that he hints at being sinful on our part to neglect them
 
abinjoy said:
Pope may not have called it SINFUL to neglect Middle East refugees but he has come very close to calling them sinful (at least indirectly). He may not have used the word “Sin” per se but if you read his statements about refugees I think you will agree that he hints at being sinful on our part to neglect them
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I agree!
 
Again, discernment, my friends. Discernment of the people being considered “poor” here, as well as discernment according to the Holy Spirit through a knowledge of the sources of our Tradition, and, again, always with the theological end in mind.

Scripture and the Sacramental Theology of the Body of Christ are the sources of our Tradition that teach what sin actually is. The Pope should make his commnents in light of these. Everything I have said before in my previous posts.
 
Yes, it is actually sinful not to help the needy.

The Catholic Church teaches that Faith Alone is not enough for salvation, you also need works. In fact, the bible outright says that faith without work is dead.

Note that I am not accusing Protestants of being lazy; they just believe that works are a byproduct that springs from faith. If that’s confusing, allow me to illustrate with simplified equations; Catholics believe “Faith + Works = Salvation” while Protestants believe “Faith = Salvation + Works”

So if you have a wallet full of $20 bills and you ignore the homeless guy (even if you fear he spend alms money on drugs, you should still buy him a hot meal), then you will be committing a sin. A Catholic would say that your sin is in not doing good works, while a Protestant would say that your sin is in not truly having faith (as indicated by your lack of good works).
 
This thread is almost guaranteed to increase scrupulosity in some.

We’re told in the USA, we are one of the richest countries on the planet. Ordinary people, who haven’t gotten raises in decades and are living paycheck to paycheck are told that they’re very rich and made to feel guilty they have food in their stomachs.

So now, we must give away money we can’t afford to people who won’t put it to good use, and that is because of the view that money is evil.
 
BobCatholic said:
This thread is almost guaranteed to increase scrupulosity in some.

We’re told in the USA, we are one of the richest countries on the planet. Ordinary people, who haven’t gotten raises in decades and are living paycheck to paycheck are told that they’re very rich and made to feel guilty they have food in their stomachs.

So now, we must give away money we can’t afford to people who won’t put it to good use, and that is because of the view that money is evil.
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feedthechildren.org/why/

Are you blaming these children for their poverty?
 
Robert_Sock said:
Are you blaming these children for their poverty?
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Did I say that?

Is someone who can’t keep a job because the job market is so horrible, an evil person because they don’t want to give away their last remaining pennies to the poor, when they’re minutes away from joining them anyway?

Your guilt trip is rejected.
 
BobCatholic said:
Did I say that?

Is someone who can’t keep a job because the job market is so horrible, an evil person because they don’t want to give away their last remaining pennies to the poor, when they’re minutes away from joining them anyway?

Your guilt trip is rejected.
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Did you ever hear the “Parable of the Poor Widow?” I think it applies today more than ever before!
 
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