Is it allowable for a Catholic husband to be the sole provider for his wife?

[OurBeloved]

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Not when it is taken into account – that a working mother can be just as successful – at spending quality time with her family. And in the long run – her family can be just as well cared for.

This is a simple matter here and how you are stumbling over it is anybody’s guess. When a person has more time to spend on something, and actually is committed to doing it, they do a good job at it.

In the case of motherhood, when a mother has more time to engage in caring for her children, and are committed to care for her children, they do a good job at it. The ones who have lesser time, even with the same amount of commitment, achieve less.

Your repeated statements trying to play with semantics are really not worth anyone’s time to address. It really feels like what people usually label as “trolling”. The above should be pretty clear to you. If not, please ask someone else you know to explain it to you.

As far as I am concerned, the fact has being made clear to you repeatedly, and it has been explained to you why what you say is irrelevant as clearly as possible. The discussion between you and me is therefore over!

 

[Walking_Home]

This is a simple matter here and how you are stumbling over it is anybody’s guess. When a person has more time to spend on something, and actually is committed to doing it, they do a good job at it.

In the case of motherhood, when a mother has more time to engage in caring for her children, and are committed to care for her children, they do a good job at it. The ones who have lesser time, even with the same amount of commitment, achieve less.

**Your repeated statements trying to play with semantics are really not worth anyone’s time to address. It really feels like what people usually label as “trolling”. **The above should be pretty clear to you. If not, please ask someone else you know to explain it to you.

As far as I am concerned, the fact has being made clear to you repeatedly, and it has been explained to you why what you say is irrelevant as clearly as possible. The discussion between you and me is therefore over!

---

“Nice” try with that bit of the “troll” . If you think it is a wast of time to address me – don’t do it. No one is forcing you. Oh, by the way – your condescending tone – is really of no help to you.

 

[Baelor]

In the case of motherhood, when a mother has more time to engage in caring for her children, and are committed to care for her children, they do a good job at it. The ones who have lesser time, even with the same amount of commitment, achieve less.

Quantify this.

 

[OurBeloved]

Quantify this.

I think you can do it yourself. Just calculate the amount of time a working mother has for their children and a stay at home mother has for their children. Then consider the case where both mothers are equally loving and committed to doing the best for their children.

Now who has more time to give their best for their children? You can disregard the fact that the working mothers are tired from their work as well.

 

[Baelor]

I think you can do it yourself. Just calculate the amount of time a working mother has for their children and a stay at home mother has for their children. Then consider the case where both mothers are equally loving and committed to doing the best for their children.p

You said they would “achieve less.” Quantify that. You are oversimplifying a process that should not be.

Now who has more time to give their best for their children? You can disregard the fact that the working mothers are tired from their work as well.

I am not in a position to judge what others are able to do. I am surprised that you feel entitled to do so.

 

[thewanderer]

You said they would “achieve less.” Quantify that. You are oversimplifying a process that should not be.

I am not in a position to judge what others are able to do. I am surprised that you feel entitled to do so.

As far as I can see all OurBeloved is saying is that SAHM have more time available to devote to their families. This is obviously a good thing. I don’t see any problem in saying that it is the ideal family situation to have a SAHM, then a SAHD or parent/s that work from home or at least have flexible hours. Obviously this is not going to work for everybody, but I see nothing wrong with calling it the ideal, or saying that it is objectively better, all else being equal.

 

[Loveolivia]

http://www.castoffdebt.comlol

 

[Diana_Catherine]

As far as I can see all OurBeloved is saying is that SAHM have more time available to devote to their families. This is obviously a good thing. I don’t see any problem in saying that it is the ideal family situation to have a SAHM, then a SAHD or parent/s that work from home or at least have flexible hours. Obviously this is not going to work for everybody, but I see nothing wrong with calling it the ideal, or saying that it is objectively better, all else being equal.

 

[severus68]

Very good that you brought this up again. I believe I talked in my initial post to you about how people confuse father, mother to be identical and believe anyone can fulfill that role regardless of gender. I think your case would be a prime example of such specimens.

Unfortunately there are many like you out there who live in this confusion. I am honestly not sure what the solution is to get rid of these sort of naive concepts. But I am sure God has a way and I will continue to pray to him.

In the meantime, it will always help if you inform yourself more as well to what the reality is. I have come to notice some jarring errors in your thoughts which is probably what is leading you down this road of bad conclusions. The good news is, once you recognize your problem, you will be be able to inform yourself more and fix it fast. The bad news, is usually personal pride and ones own life style can get in the way. I hope with God’s grace, you will receive the ability to do the right thing and fix your errors.

You will then not only teach your children well, if you have any by God’s grace, but also be a good example to those who know you

Don’t you think that you yourself have a lot of arrogance and pride in making assumptions and pointing out what you consider to be errors in others. You yourself need to realise that how you want women to act, to know their place, to adhere to their “designated roles’” may not be acceptable to many men and women. We do not all subscribe to your opinion of how things should be and please do not say it is what God wants. Too many purport to speak on behalf of God. Please concentrate on developing your own spirituality.

 

[TrueLight]

I just want to talk about the quality time factor.

I have always had to work because my marriage was pretty tumultuous and I was pretty much a single mother.

I did what I could. I would come home tired, pick up the kids from the babysitter or after school program and try to do dinner, baths, homework etc. I did what I could and it was exhausting. I was also often stressed from work, so wasn’t always in the best moods.

Now some women can handle that with no problem, but not everyone.

At some point I had been laid off, so I decided to try my own internet business. I was doing pretty well for a while. So I would get up early, get the kids ready, feed them breakfast and drop them off at school or the bus. I would then take care of stuff at home, then work a few hours on my business.

I would pick them up at 3 and have a snack ready for them and supervise their homework. I was available for school trips. I made friends with the other moms who waited for their kids after school.

I would have time to play with my kids.

I would put them to bed with a bedtime story or just talks.

After they were in bed around 9 PM, I would go back on the computer and work some more or just relax.

Quality time for me, includes not just having the hours, but also my being in a good state of mind. It’s not quality if I am on the edge because of stress.

The time when I worked at home were some of the happiest moments of my life, even though I worked hard on my business. I didn’t have the stress of working outside the home, so mentally, I was more “there” for my kids.

I should point out that I had always been the type of woman who couldn’t wait to go back to work after my three months maternity had passed.

I think if I were a stay at home mom, I would need something to occupy my mind and to be a channel for my drive, like a home based business.

That was just my experience.

Now I get home on average around 8PM. So you can imagine.

 

[LemonAndLime]

I think you are perhaps not reading properly. I said I am not doing the role of teacher here. I was assuming some level of formal knowledge on your part as I wrote. But it appears there is a ton missing yet you like to pass on second hand information and hold on to them as authoritative. It feels like discussing Calculus with someone who has barely passed Grade 1 and only heard about it through their elder brother or sister.

All you need to read or study are some first year courses on non-western History and Anthropology. I wish you all the best in your studies of this subject and I am sure you will find some pretty surprising discoveries considering what you currently believe.

The discussion between you and me is over!

Nope it isn’t.

Which non-western countries?

Here on this forum you have to try to prove anything you state as fact. You’re not being taken seriously as all you are right now is someone on the Internet, writing some words and expecting to be taken seriously or as speaking the truth when to be quite honest in academically it’s a load of rubbish until you can back it up with evidence. No wait, not rubbish - just your opinion.

 

[OurBeloved]

You said they would “achieve less.” Quantify that. You are oversimplifying a process that should not be.

So provide evidence for that? What reason do I have to think I am oversimplifying? What reason do I have to believe you “achieve more”?

Going back to the past thread, our culture was the first one to start women going to work. It doesn’t look that great now does it?

Oh wait, according to you, its still pretty good.

The rise in contraception, same sex marriage, euthanasia, loss of faith, casual sex, immodesty in dress, lack of children in mass, gender confusion, all these according to your ignorant mind is a global effect.

I am not in a position to judge what others are able to do. I am surprised that you feel entitled to do so.

Yes, you certainly are not in a position to judge because you demonstrate a lack of experience of knowledge. But no need to “judge” me as also suffering from the same defect you are suffering.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I just want to talk about the quality time factor.

I have always had to work because my marriage was pretty tumultuous and I was pretty much a single mother.

I did what I could. I would come home tired, pick up the kids from the babysitter or after school program and try to do dinner, baths, homework etc. I did what I could and it was exhausting. I was also often stressed from work, so wasn’t always in the best moods.

Now some women can handle that with no problem, but not everyone.

At some point I had been laid off, so I decided to try my own internet business. I was doing pretty well for a while. So I would get up early, get the kids ready, feed them breakfast and drop them off at school or the bus. I would then take care of stuff at home, then work a few hours on my business.

I would pick them up at 3 and have a snack ready for them and supervise their homework. I was available for school trips. I made friends with the other moms who waited for their kids after school.

I would have time to play with my kids.

I would put them to bed with a bedtime story or just talks.

After they were in bed around 9 PM, I would go back on the computer and work some more or just relax.

Quality time for me, includes not just having the hours, but also my being in a good state of mind. It’s not quality if I am on the edge because of stress.

The time when I worked at home were some of the happiest moments of my life, even though I worked hard on my business. I didn’t have the stress of working outside the home, so mentally, I was more “there” for my kids.

I should point out that I had always been the type of woman who couldn’t wait to go back to work after my three months maternity had passed.

I think if I were a stay at home mom, I would need something to occupy my mind and to be a channel for my drive, like a home based business.

That was just my experience.

Now I get home on average around 8PM. So you can imagine.

Thanks for being honest about this. There are a lot of people who are so defensive about wanting to have a career AND have children, that the truth gets obscured.

In our case, I have been the homemaker while hubby worked. I can tell you that if both of us had worked, the kids would have had NO ONE to count on. Hubby’s work is so involving to him that even when he’s home, he’s still got a lot of his attention fixed on it. Plus, he now works for himself so he also has things he must do in his “off” hours. He literally could work 24/7/365 and still need more time. He has made a good living over the years, but as far as spending tons of time with his sons, no.

I am not an ambitious person by nature so I know that the corporate world would drain me. I would not have much left at the end of the day to give to my children. They would be getting the dregs while my paying job got the best of me. I am glad that I didn’t have to make them suffer that way.

I was a “latch-key kid” before the term was invented. I coped, but it was lonely. My sister got into a lot of trouble because no one was there to ride herd on her. It’s better when someone is home when the kids are, from birth up through high school.

 

[minkymurph]

I don’t see the need for a parent to be at home once the children are in school all day. Employers now offer more family-friendly hours, and in my part of the world parents are entitled to paid paternity leave.

Being honest, I would hate to be financially dependent on someone else. I’m sure there men that would be content to be financially dependent on their wife, but I would say there’s a lot who wouldn’t be.

Staying at home today is not the same as it was in days gone by. I stayed at home when my kids were small and I don’t regret it. However, I found myself trying to drag postmen through the letter-box just to have an adult conversation. :whacky:

 

[catholicmamajoy]

I feel it’s quite inappropriate ( and just plain rude) to insist that one way is better than another for every family. Making sweeping generalizations about how every mom must stay at home to have a good family starts one down a very slippery slope. For every “study” done showing children and families are better off when mom stays home, there’s another showing moms that work outside the home have happier and more well-adjusted kids. It all depends on who is doing the study and who they query.

That being said, even as a stay-at-home, homeschooling mom, I firmly believe it’s up to each family to determine, based on temperament, needs, and situation, what is best for their family****. For some, that may mean that mom stays at home and does a wonderful job of it. She’s happy, the kids are happy, and hubby is happy. I have many friends that are fellow homeschooling moms who fit this description wonderfully.
Then there are those that choose to work outside the home, full-time if needed, for personal sanity and the sake of the children. I have a friend who works full-time outside the home and has since each child was born (she takes a 12 week postpartum leave). She would be miserable at home and so would her children. Does anyone honestly think it’s best for some moms that would be miserable (or be watching TV, on the phone, reading books or spending all day posting on various Catholic or other forums) to actually stay at home with their kids? Oh sure, one can say, they shouldn’t** be doing those things, they should be giving their children 100% of their attention. But not all moms are cut out to be or are capable of being that person.

For those moms that must or choose to work outside the home, take heart and know that the Church canonized a women that also chose to work outside the home; St Gianna Beretta Molla. With a successful businessman for a husband, she didn’t need to work outside the home, but chose to continue her work as a medical doctor caring for women and children. Just reading her biography, the book of letters she wrote to her husband while he was away on business, and the beautiful pictures of her with her children give you a pretty good idea that they were a happy, functional family and her children turned out beautifully! The daughter St Gianna sacrificed her own life for became a medical doctor herself and treats the elderly, specializing in Alzheimer’s patients, plus she cared for her own father in his later years.

If you choose to stay at home, great. If you choose to work, that’s fine, too. So, can we please, please, please end these “Mommy Wars” on this forum?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Somehow, hearing that being with her children is not satisfying enough for a mother, just doesn’t rub me the right way, you know? It never will. There is also a lot of judgment about women who DO get satisfaction out of being with their children, as if that is somehow less-than women who can’t wait to get away from their babies.

 

[catholicmamajoy]

Somehow, hearing that being with her children is not satisfying enough for a mother, just doesn’t rub me the right way, you know? It never will. There is also a lot of judgment about women who DO get satisfaction out of being with their children, as if that is somehow less-than women who can’t wait to get away from their babies.

I see your point about “satisfaction”, and agree. What I was getting at was more along the lines of keeping one’s sanity instead of "personal fulfillment ".

 

[OurBeloved]

I feel it’s quite inappropriate ( and just plain rude) to insist that one way is better than another for every family. Making sweeping generalizations about how every mom must stay at home to have a good family starts one down a very slippery slope. For every “study” done showing children and families are better off when mom stays home, there’s another showing moms that work outside the home have happier and more well-adjusted kids. It all depends on who is doing the study and who they query.

That being said, even as a stay-at-home, homeschooling mom, I firmly believe it’s up to each family to determine, based on temperament, needs, and situation, what is best for their family****. For some, that may mean that mom stays at home and does a wonderful job of it. She’s happy, the kids are happy, and hubby is happy. I have many friends that are fellow homeschooling moms who fit this description wonderfully.
Then there are those that choose to work outside the home, full-time if needed, for personal sanity and the sake of the children. I have a friend who works full-time outside the home and has since each child was born (she takes a 12 week postpartum leave). She would be miserable at home and so would her children. Does anyone honestly think it’s best for some moms that would be miserable (or be watching TV, on the phone, reading books or spending all day posting on various Catholic or other forums) to actually stay at home with their kids? Oh sure, one can say, they shouldn’t** be doing those things, they should be giving their children 100% of their attention. But not all moms are cut out to be or are capable of being that person.

For those moms that must or choose to work outside the home, take heart and know that the Church canonized a women that also chose to work outside the home; St Gianna Beretta Molla. With a successful businessman for a husband, she didn’t need to work outside the home, but chose to continue her work as a medical doctor caring for women and children. Just reading her biography, the book of letters she wrote to her husband while he was away on business, and the beautiful pictures of her with her children give you a pretty good idea that they were a happy, functional family and her children turned out beautifully! The daughter St Gianna sacrificed her own life for became a medical doctor herself and treats the elderly, specializing in Alzheimer’s patients, plus she cared for her own father in his later years.

If you choose to stay at home, great. If you choose to work, that’s fine, too. So, can we please, please, please end these “Mommy Wars” on this forum?

I think this is like saying the truth hurts so lets just leave it for everyone’s preference.

The fact remains that parents have a duty to pass on their values, their beliefs, to their children while taking care of them. You can’t pass these down after work when you have time.

Rather, you pass them down as you interact with the child and see them act differently or suggest differently etc. For most mothers, the whole role of motherhood in our culture is just feeding the kids, putting them to bed, taking them to school, to the Doctors, and giving them a place to stay. That is not what motherhood is about. No wonder people think the role can be replaced by a father or even a day care provider.

The mother is more attuned to the child’s thoughts and feelings than a father. This is natural. The mother who spends a lot of time with the child can easily see and feel what the child is thinking and planing. This is why more time is essentially good. The more time you spend, the more better you know the other person. As a result, the child is sometimes more open to the mother as well. There is a reason why even Jesus has his mother as a Queen and listened to her in Cana. People who then go “we should have the father stay at home” are totally missing the point. It is not a preferential issue that differs from family to family.

So having lost the importance of the motherly role due to cultural degradation, most people on this forum have come to simply assume motherhood as role that is interchangeable with a father or someone else. The extra time available seems useless for some mothers as well because they don’t know what to do with the time. Most of them will simply be depressed because they never planned to be a “Mother” in the way it is required. Most women grow up being fostered to believe that they should not depend on anyone, should have career ambition and their success will be measured, not by how well the kids were raised but by how well they accomplished in their careers. For such a woman, to now have to stay home feels more like depression and the children probably start to feel like a pain anyway. So no wonder there is lack of quality as some argue.

But the problem here is the whole distorted mentality that people should not depend on others and that their success is measured solely in terms of career accomplishments. Then there is also the issue of gender confusion and very basic understanding of what motherhood entails which results in most seeing the role of a mother as even interchangeable with that of a father or some other person even.

So this issue is not a matter of preference. If a family has children, the mother should stay home and care for the children and raise them well. If they don’t do that, there is no point blaming culture, school systems, Church, or governments for your utter failure. If you take a look at our culture, the church attendance, the amount of people born and raised here entering University, we can see the results of our own failure to be good mothers.

How people still insist that it is a matter of preference is beyond me.

 

[Lujack]

The mother is more attuned to the child’s thoughts and feelings than a father. This is natural. The mother who spends a lot of time with the child can easily see and feel what the child is thinking and planing. The child is sometimes more open to the mother as well. There is a reason why even Jesus has his mother as a Queen and listened to her in Cana. People who then go “we should have the father stay at home” are totally missing the point. It is not a preferential issue that differs from family to family.

This is the sort of blanket statement that I just can’t accept without some evidence for it. Sometimes my mother is more attuned to my thoughts and feelings than my father; other times its the reverse. The same goes with who I am more open to.

Now what I am sure you will say is that “Well, that’s because our culture has degraded motherhood”, but don’t you see that your argument has no basis in anything other than your own declarations? You have no evidence to present other than saying “This is natural. This is the way it is.”, and if it isn’t that way, you say its because the culture has degraded motherhood.

It seems you believe very strongly in this, which is fine, and are willing to insist that things should be a certain way for everyone, which is also fine, but you can’t really expect to convince anyone because you have very little evidence to offer.

 

[catholicmamajoy]

I think this is like saying the truth hurts so lets just leave it for everyone’s preference.

The fact remains that parents have a duty to pass on their values, their beliefs, to their children while taking care of them. You can’t pass these down after work when you have time.

Rather, you pass them down as you interact with the child and see them act differently or suggest differently etc. For most mothers, the whole role of motherhood in our culture is just feeding the kids, putting them to bed, taking them to school, to the Doctors, and giving them a place to stay. That is not what motherhood is about. No wonder people think the role can be replaced by a father or even a day care provider.

The mother is more attuned to the child’s thoughts and feelings than a father. This is natural. The mother who spends a lot of time with the child can easily see and feel what the child is thinking and planing. The child is sometimes more open to the mother as well. There is a reason why even Jesus has his mother as a Queen and listened to her in Cana. People who then go “we should have the father stay at home” are totally missing the point. It is not a preferential issue that differs from family to family.

So having lost the importance of the motherly role due to cultural degradation, most people on this forum have come to simply assume motherhood as role that is interchangeable with a father or someone else. The extra time available seems useless for some mothers as well because they don’t know what to do with the time. Most of them will simply be depressed because they never planned to be a “Mother” in the way it is required. Most women grow up being fostered to believe that they should not depend on anyone, should have career ambition and their success will be measured, not by how well the kids were raised but by how well they accomplished in their careers. For such a woman, to now have to stay home feels more like depression and the children probably start to feel like a pain anyway. So no wonder there is lack of quality as some argue.

But the problem here is the whole distorted mentality that people should not depend on others and that their success is measured solely in terms of career accomplishments. Then there is also the issue of gender confusion and very basic understanding of what motherhood entails which results in most seeing the role of a mother as even interchangeable with that of a father or some other person even.

So this issue is not a matter of preference. If a family has children, the mother should stay home and care for the children and raise them well. If they don’t do that, there is no point blaming culture, school systems, Church, or governments for your utter failure. If you take a look at our culture, the church attendance, the amount of people born and raised here entering University, we can see the results of our own failure to be good mothers.

How people still insist that it is a matter of preference is beyond me.

Then I guess it will need to remain beyond you. I’ve been a veteran in the “Mommy Wars” and I’m done!!