Is it an issue for a Catholic to make items for Gay Mardi Gras?

[Roseeurekacross]

TRIGGER WARNING. dont read if you dont want to know a bit about Aussie gay mardi gras

Just tell them the truth. You are now trying to follow the ways of God. You are struggling with the morality of sewing up latex shorts. But you can sew them some nice snappy mardi gras trousers.

Dont lie. Thats not what we Catholics do. People are watching us, see how we live, how we change. Just waiting to pick holes.

They cant take away your religious right. You arent making comments about who is sleeping with who. Just about shorts made of latex.

I remember years ago , in Melb, at a horse show at the showgrounds after gay mardi gras. Cleaning the horse drug test stables…so many condoms…and backless shorts.

 

[Elena321]

Elena, I may be late to the party, but you could mention to the people asking you to make the garments that latex is very hard to work with and you’d rather not.

This sounds like a good idea as it’s true how hard it is to work with latex!
Do you sew too?

 

[EasterJoy]

TRIGGER WARNING. dont read if you dont want to know a bit about Aussie gay mardi gras

Just tell them the truth. You are now trying to follow the ways of God. You are struggling with the morality of sewing up latex shorts. But you can sew them some nice snappy mardi gras trousers…

These threads are public, and stay in the public record. Maybe this is just me, but I’d say that a “trigger warning” doesn’t keep children from reading what we write. The more vague and general the description can be while still communicating what needs to be communicated to get the real picture across, the better. Sometimes, we just need to say, “Trust me, if I told you what really happened, it wouldn’t be a description that can be posted in on a Catholic discussion board.”

It is fine for the OP to say she is trying to follow the ways of God, but truthfully there are very secular tailors who draw a line on making garments that even an atheist can see are in terrible taste and inappropriately contribute to an over-sexualized culture. Yes, the natural law of the heart can see these things; it isn’t just the Christians who can see it.

That is why I think, “I don’t make garments like that for anyone. That design is over-sexualized and in extremely bad taste. I’d really encourage you to choose something more dignified. I certainly won’t fill the order you’re asking for, not for any price.”

 

[EasterJoy]

This sounds like a good idea as it’s true how hard it is to work with latex!
Do you sew too?

Is that the real reason you wouldn’t take the order?

If you’d sew something in a different design that’s made with that fabric, then don’t make up a false reason why you’re refusing the job. Either give no reason at all or else give an honest and legally-permissible reason. You may choose which of your honest reasons you give, but this isn’t a matter of life and death like hiding Jews from the Nazis. You may not lie.

 

[JanetF]

This sounds like a good idea as it’s true how hard it is to work with latex!
Do you sew too?

I do! I love to quilt!

 

[JanetF]

Is that the real reason you wouldn’t take the order?

If you’d sew something in a different design that’s made with that fabric, then don’t make up a false reason why you’re refusing the job. Either give no reason at all or else give an honest and legally-permissible reason. You may choose which of your honest reasons you give, but this isn’t a matter of life and death like hiding Jews from the Nazis. You may not lie.

FTR: I wasn’t suggesting she lie, I was bringing to her attention something that she might not be aware of. Latex as a material is very hard to work with when sewing. If she has not worked with latex in the past and does not want to tackle a new skill, she could use this as a kind excuse to not fulfill this order. If she works with latex in the future and becomes accustomed to the quirks of doing so, she could branch out into that arena without concern for previous refusal to work with the product.

 

[EasterJoy]

FTR: I wasn’t suggesting she lie, I was bringing to her attention something that she might not be aware of. Latex as a material is very hard to work with when sewing. If she has not worked with latex in the past and does not want to tackle a new skill, she could use this as a kind excuse to not fulfill this order. If she works with latex in the future and becomes accustomed to the quirks of doing so, she could branch out into that arena without concern for previous refusal to work with the product.

Thank you for the chance to clarify, and I apologize if you felt I was accusing you of something.

When I said “is that the real reason?” I did mean it as a real question, not a rhetorical device. If the difficulty of working with the requested fabric is even one of the real reasons that would alone be sufficient to turn down the job, of course it is morally fine to give that as a reason. We aren’t bound to give every unflattering reason we have to refuse a request, which for the peace of the world is a fortunate thing!

What is not a good idea is to give a reason that would not suffice in and of itself as a reason to refuse the job. That would put us in the position of later accepting a request to work with that very fabric and then looking like a big liar because we weren’t *honest enough *when we made our refusal. We want to protect our integrity and either give reasons that will stand the test of time or else simply reserve the right to turn down jobs without giving a particular reason such as, “that fabric is a pain, and although I have the skill to do what you’re asking, I just don’t want to do this job. I would do the job with such-and-so changes, though.” (If the OP *wanted *to leave the door open to accept a different version of the job, which she might not want to do, either…)

Now, if it is legal in Australia to turn down a job like this because the seamstress doesn’t want any job that has anything to do with a gay pride parade, by all means, give that as a reason. It is not inherently hurtful or uncharitable to say out loud that you think someone is proposing to do something immoral just because it doesn’t violate their personal moral code. A seamstress in the US would have to draw the line on the nature of the job–that is, that she doesn’t make garments that are in such poor taste for anybody.

 

[JanetF]

Thank you for the chance to clarify, and I apologize if you felt I was accusing you of something.

When I said “is that the real reason?” I did mean it as a real question, not a rhetorical device. If the difficulty of working with the requested fabric is even one of the real reasons that would alone be sufficient to turn down the job, of course it is morally fine to give that as a reason. We aren’t bound to give every unflattering reason we have to refuse a request, which for the peace of the world is a fortunate thing!

What is not a good idea is to give a reason that would not suffice in and of itself as a reason to refuse the job. That would put us in the position of later accepting a request to work with that very fabric and then looking like a big liar because we weren’t *honest enough *when we made our refusal. We want to protect our integrity and either give reasons that will stand the test of time or else simply reserve the right to turn down jobs without giving a particular reason such as, “that fabric is a pain, and although I have the skill to do what you’re asking, I just don’t want to do this job. I would do the job with such-and-so changes, though.” (If the OP *wanted *to leave the door open to accept a different version of the job, which she might not want to do, either…)

Now, if it is legal in Australia to turn down a job like this because the seamstress doesn’t want any job that has anything to do with a gay pride parade, by all means, give that as a reason. It is not inherently hurtful or uncharitable to say out loud that you think someone is proposing to do something immoral just because it doesn’t violate their personal moral code. A seamstress in the US would have to draw the line on the nature of the job–that is, that she doesn’t make garments that are in such poor taste for anybody.

No worries, what I said needed to be clarified.

 

[Elena321]

Is that the real reason you wouldn’t take the order?

If you’d sew something in a different design that’s made with that fabric, then don’t make up a false reason why you’re refusing the job. Either give no reason at all or else give an honest and legally-permissible reason. You may choose which of your honest reasons you give, but this isn’t a matter of life and death like hiding Jews from the Nazis. You may not lie.

It is an honest reason,but isn’t the only honest reason.
Latex is notoriously difficult to sew and is easier to glue together but I don’t think many people would be happy with that result.
It’s likely that I would turn down any any job (regardless of design) that wanted latex,unless I felt really up to a challenge or offered a decent amount of money and the customer wasn’t on a strict time limit. This one was offering a decent fee for service,but the event…

 

[Elena321]

We want to protect our integrity and either give reasons that will stand the test of time…"

Now, if it is legal in Australia to turn down a job like this because the seamstress doesn’t want any job that has anything to do with a gay pride parade, by all means, give that as a reason. It is not inherently hurtful or uncharitable to say out loud that you think someone is proposing to do something immoral just because it doesn’t violate their personal moral code. A seamstress in the US would have to draw the line on the nature of the job–that is, that she doesn’t make garments that are in such poor taste for anybody.

Good point (regarding first sentence).

I had a look on the Australian Human Rights Commission-Employers website and after reading,I think it very likely wouldn’t be legal.Its quite liberal here.
I’m just a home sewer so things might not matter as much,but if you had a tailoring business in the Shopping Centre for example,I’m not fully confident that it even would be legal to refuse a job on “taste ground”?
I could be wrong though,because hairdresser “all the time” refuse to do a dye/style if their tastes differ with the customers tastes, I think?

 

[fbl9]

It is an honest reason,but isn’t the only honest reason.
Latex is notoriously difficult to sew and is easier to glue together but I don’t think many people would be happy with that result.
It’s likely that I would turn down any any job (regardless of design) that wanted latex,unless I felt really up to a challenge or offered a decent amount of money and the customer wasn’t on a strict time limit. This one was offering a decent fee for service,but the event…

make this a company policy sorry we don’t work with latex. When latex is used as a clothing material there is a good chance it is worn with an immoral intent.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

These threads are public, and stay in the public record. Maybe this is just me, but I’d say that a “trigger warning” doesn’t keep children from reading what we write. The more vague and general the description can be while still communicating what needs to be communicated to get the real picture across, the better. Sometimes, we just need to say, “Trust me, if I told you what really happened, it wouldn’t be a description that can be posted in on a Catholic discussion board.”

It is fine for the OP to say she is trying to follow the ways of God, but truthfully there are very secular tailors who draw a line on making garments that even an atheist can see are in terrible taste and inappropriately contribute to an over-sexualized culture. Yes, the natural law of the heart can see these things; it isn’t just the Christians who can see it.

That is why I think, “I don’t make garments like that for anyone. That design is over-sexualized and in extremely bad taste. I’d really encourage you to choose something more dignified. I certainly won’t fill the order you’re asking for, not for any price.”

Absolutely, these threads are public and stay in the public record. However, we can choose to scroll on by if we might be offended. I think of all the threads i scroll past based on the title. The trigger warning was not for kids. Who are also able to access those other threads. Unfortunately.

Latex and tight and backless are quite the norm in our gay mardi gras. Its pretty much as loud, outrageous and sexualising a statement as possible. Someone is doing a roaring business annually. I agree, dont lie, just say the real reason not to make them. And right now, and good for Elena, she is beginning to discern morality from her new standpoint of living Catholicism. Which is, in my opinion, why the thread.

In Australia you can decline work in a small business. It would be the same as for eg , someone bringing in a roo skin and asking for a fur coat.

If same sex marriage is ever legalised here, declining this type of work, might become problematic.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

Good point (regarding first sentence).

I had a look on the Australian Human Rights Commission-Employers website and after reading,I think it very likely wouldn’t be legal.Its quite liberal here.
I’m just a home sewer so things might not matter as much,but if you had a tailoring business in the Shopping Centre for example,I’m not fully confident that it even would be legal to refuse a job on “taste ground”?
I could be wrong though,because hairdresser “all the time” refuse to do a dye/style if their tastes differ with the customers tastes, I think?

Its like a Holden mechanic refusing to work on a Ford if Ford kicked them off the podium at Bathurst, and they were taking a while to get over it. No Ford parts available here.

 

[EasterJoy]

Good point (regarding first sentence).

I had a look on the Australian Human Rights Commission-Employers website and after reading,I think it very likely wouldn’t be legal.Its quite liberal here.
I’m just a home sewer so things might not matter as much,but if you had a tailoring business in the Shopping Centre for example,I’m not fully confident that it even would be legal to refuse a job on “taste ground”?
I could be wrong though,because hairdresser “all the time” refuse to do a dye/style if their tastes differ with the customers tastes, I think?

I think your life would be easier and better if you simply said “I don’t do latex and I don’t do anything I don’t think looks good. Period.”