Is it easier to be Protestant or Catholic?

[GaryTaylor]

Which is easier depends one how you involve yourself in the Catholic Church. And even more importantly should you chose the follow the spritual path laid out by the Catholic Mystics.

On the surface level, confession and the process required in attendence weekly, and holy days of obligation is also not easier, but its not terribly difficult either.

Whats difficult is truly living this life being in it and of it. And following the Dark Night of the Soul in purification. Thats the difficult part. Here I’m not even sure protestant church teach’s or are aware of this very Biblical concept from OT to NT or teach it. Its easily missed.

God Bless, Gary

 

[guanophore]

I have been both catholic 28 years and a born again Christian 21 years. Being Catholic is far more work and uncertainty than being a BAC. IMO there are all the man made laws and traditions that are not in the bible.

It is regrettable that you were so poorly catechized as a Catholic. I had the same trouble. When I left the Catholic Church, it was for all kinds of reasons just like yours that turned out to be completely without merit. In fact, I had never taken the time to learn my faith, and when I did, I realized that I never really understood it, or embraced it. I was taught very poorly in many ways, and was actually leaving in ignorance. When I decided to join another denomination, I took it upon myself to study them all, so that I could figure out where I belonged.

Needless to say, my studies brought me back to the faith into which I was baptized, and knew very little.

If you were really Catholic at one time, you would know that following His commandment is not burdensome, because His Spirit is at work within us to will and to do His good pleasure.

You would also know that there is a difference between tradition (customs of men) and Sacred Tradition, which is the Word of God preserved infallibly in the Church by the HS. You would also know that the Bible is a product of that Sacred Tradition, and that the Bible itself nowhere says that it was ever intended to be a full compendium of the faith. Therefore, the idea that everything has to be in the bible is, itself, a man made, extrabiblical tradition.

 Catholics are never secure in their salvation and have no eternal security which the bible states for those who are called by God for His purpose.

This is an extremely bigoted statement, jericho. It is not your place to judge the individual relationships of others to God, even non-catholics. You really have no way of knowing how secure I am in God.

You also seem to have forgotten (if you ever knew) that the NT was written by, for, and about Catholics. Everything in it is Catholic, and nothing in it contradicts the Catholic faith. Those verses you refer to about eternal security are Catholic.

You are always worried you will be good enough or have enough good works to enter heaven.

It is really not appropriate for you to project your skewed perception of the Catholic faith on to others. I can accept that this was your experience as a Catholic, as it was mine too at one time. However, to judge that all people experienced the faith as you have is a grievious error.

As a BAC I have rest in Christ and His finished work on the cross alone as in Heb 4:9-11tells us. Heb 4:9-11There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.

good for you jericho! I am glad you have finally understood the Catholic faith.

It‘s the freedom to live by faith and trust His grace. God is not just waiting to see if you are not good enough. He has called us and adopted us as sons and heirs with Christ. His Spirit bears witness with our spirit we are His.

Yes, this is very true. :dancing:

I hope that many more lost Catholics such as yoursellf will come to understand this as well.

 

[kathmandu]

That is okay! God understands angry. It is not wrong to feel angry, But God can also take away anger and replace it with love.

You said the key word, on going!! Thats good, you are waiting for God’s time, You will not regret the reward that is to come at the end, No one will every understand your suffering like God can. So continue to give it up to him and let him heal you.

But I have been angry for over 40 years. It does not go away. I can go to church for years at a time and I am still angry. Maybe I should just accept the fact that is is probably more of a mental problem.

 

[guanophore]

But I have been angry for over 40 years. It does not go away. I can go to church for years at a time and I am still angry. Maybe I should just accept the fact that is is probably more of a mental problem.

You are right. Persistent refusal to forgive people can certainly cause mental problems.

Committing sacrilege, of course makes conditions like these even worse, since they give the devil more of a foothold in the soul.

Every time a person prays the Lord’s prayer, saying “forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us” and refused to forgive, they place themselves in grave spiritual danger.

 

[kathmandu]

I do thank everyone for their kindness and suggestions. This is not a new situation I am in, it is ongoing. One of you suggested that I may not be a Christian and that is what I have come to accept lately, that I am a loving , kind, caring person to all I meet but that is where I stop. The devil may be lying to me, and it has occurred to me that I may have a form of possession or oppression. So what do you do about that?

My husband just went to Mass without me again. He hates it when I go because I might complain about the music or the sermon and it ruins his spiritual experience. And I do believe that he is worried that someone there just might figure out that he is a divorced and remarried Catholic who is going to communion. This does not bother him in the least. He comes home feeling good and happy. Someone please explain that please.

Culture of death? Interesting statement. Never hear of that before.

 

[guanophore]

I do thank everyone for their kindness and suggestions. This is not a new situation I am in, it is ongoing. One of you suggested that I may not be a Christian and that is what I have come to accept lately, that I am a loving , kind, caring person to all I meet but that is where I stop. The devil may be lying to me, and it has occurred to me that I may have a form of possession or oppression. So what do you do about that?

It is as good an excuse as any to disobey God.

My husband just went to Mass without me again. He hates it when I go because I might complain about the music or the sermon and it ruins his spiritual experience.

Have you ever considered not complaining?

And I do believe that he is worried that someone there just might figure out that he is a divorced and remarried Catholic who is going to communion.

Yes. He is considered to be in a state of mortal sin, and commits sacrilege by doing this.

This does not bother him in the least. He comes home feeling good and happy. Someone please explain that please.

De Nile. It aint’ just a river in Egypt.

Culture of death? Interesting statement. Never hear of that before.

It does not sound like you are ready to make any changes in your life right now, but for those who are reading and might be interested I will post a link.

 

[kathmandu]

It is as good an excuse as any to disobey God.
That’s not a answer

Have you ever considered not complaining?
I don’t complain. He just thinks I might.

Yes. He is considered to be in a state of mortal sin, and commits sacrilege by doing this.

De Nile. It aint’ just a river in Egypt.

It does not sound like you are ready to make any changes in your life right now, but for those who are reading and might be interested I will post a link.

Okay. So you think I am too far gone and should give up. But I do thank you for talking to me and answering some questions. Most Roman Catholics will not even go that far with me.

 

[kathmandu]

You are right. Persistent refusal to forgive people can certainly cause mental problems.

Committing sacrilege, of course makes conditions like these even worse, since they give the devil more of a foothold in the soul.

Every time a person prays the Lord’s prayer, saying “forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us” and refused to forgive, they place themselves in grave spiritual danger.

But what if it is not refusal to forgive? What if you want to forgive but can’t? All you seem to do is forget for a while and then it crops back up? How do you forgive?

 

[JRKH]

But what if it is not refusal to forgive? What if you want to forgive but can’t? All you seem to do is forget for a while and then it crops back up? How do you forgive?

Forgiveness might not be something that is emotional. I mean it is possible to forgive someone and still feel “unsettled” or troubled by memories.
Also, forgiveness does not mean that one has to be buddy-buddy with that other person if they have not repented.

Forgiveness means that you do not wish harm to the other person. That you wish them only the best (which is heaven). That you pray for their salvation. That God open their heart to repentance and your heart to a true, full and complete letting go of the hurt.
Place all of this before God in humble prayer.
Remember that we are all sinners. We all have done things that have injured others. So a very important part of forgiving others is recognizing that fact. That we have no reason to feel somehow superior to others.
We would like to be forgiven by those we hurt, so we must be ready to forgive first.

I hope this helps

Peace
James

 

[edowitz1]

Roman Catholic Doctrine Vs. The Doctrinal Teaching of the Word of God

Eternal life is a merited reward [1821, 2010]. - Roman Catholicism
Eternal life is the free gift of God (Romans 6:23)

No one can know if he will attain eternal life [1036, 2005] - Roman Catholicism
The believer can know that he has eternal life by the Word of God (1 John 5:13)

The Roman Catholic Church is necessary for salvation [846]. - Roman Catholicism
There is salvation in no one but the Lord Jesus Christ, “for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved” (Acts 4:12)

Purgatory is necessary to atone for sin and clean the soul [1030-1031]. - Roman Catholicism
Purgatory does not exist. Jesus made purification for sins on the cross (Hebrews 1:3)

Mary was preserved from all stain of original sin from the first instant of her conception (the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception) [490-492].
Mary, a descendant of Adam, was born in sin (Psalm 51:5; Romans 5:12)

Mary is the Mother of the Church [963, 975]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was the earthly mother of Jesus ( John 2:1)

The Magisterium is the authoritative teacher of the Church. [85-87]. - Roman Catholicism
The Holy Spirit is the authoritative teacher of the church (John 14:26; John 16:13, I John 2:27)

The pope, as the Bishop of Rome, is the successor of Peter [882, 936] - Roman Catholicism
Peter had no successor, nor was he a pope.

The pope is infallible in his authoritative teaching [891]. - Roman Catholicism
God alone is infallible (Numbers 23:19)

Scripture and Tradition together are the Word of God [81, 85, 97, 182]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the Word of God (John 10:35, 2 Timothy 3:15-17, 2 Peter 1:20-21). Tradition is the words of men (Mark 7:1-13).

The sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the Sacrifice of the Mass. [1364,1405, 1846]. - Roman Catholicism
The sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross (Ephesians 1:7, Hebrews 1:3).

God desires that consecrated bread and wine be worshiped as divine. [1378-1381] - Roman Catholicism
God forbids the worship of any object, even t hose intended to represent Him (Exodus 20:4-5, Isaiah 42:8)

Justification is lost through mortal sin [1033, 1855, 1874] - Roman Catholicism
Justification cannot be lost. Those whom God justifies will be saved from the wrath of God (Romans 5:8-9).

Justification is furthered by sacraments and good works [1212, 1392, 2010] - Roman Catholicism
Justification is the imputation of the perfect righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21). In Christ the believer has been made complete (Colossians 2:10).

Salvation is attained by cooperating with grace through faith, good works, and participation in the sacraments [183, 1129, 1815, 2002]. - Roman Catholicism
Salvation is attained by grace through faith apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Good works are the result, not the cause, of salvation (Ephesians 2:10).

Mary, “the All-Holy,” lived a perfectly sinless life [411, 493]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary was a sinner; God alone is sinless (Luke 18:19, Romans 3:23, Revelation 15:4).

Mary was a virgin before, during, and after the birth of Christ [496-511]. - Roman Catholicism
Mary remained a virgin until after the birth of Jesus (Matthew 1:25). Later she had other children (Matthew 13:55-56, Psalm 69:8).

Each Sacrifice of the Mass appeases God’s wrath against sin [1371, 1414]. - Roman Catholicism
The once-for-all sacrifice of the cross fully appeased God’s wrath against sin. (Hebrews 10:12-18).

The Bishops, with the Pope, as their head, rule the universal church. [883, 894-896]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ, the head of the body is the Head of the Church. (Colossians 1:18).

The faithful receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure through the Sacrifice of the Mass [1366, 1407]. - Roman Catholicism
Believers receive the benefits of the cross in fullest measure in Christ through faith (Ephesians 1:3-14).

God has exalted Mary in heavenly glory as Queen of Heaven and Earth [966]. She is to be praised with special devotion [971, 2675]. - Roman Catholicism
The name of the Lord is to be praised, for He alone is exalted above heaven and earth (Psalm 148:13). God commands, “You shall have no other gods before Me.” (Exodus 20:3).

Mary is the co-mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions 9 968-970, 2677] - Roman Catholicism
Christ Jesus is the one mediator to whom we can entrust all our cares and petitions (1 Timothy 2:5, John 14:13-14, 1 Peter 5:7).

Mary is the co-redeemer, for she participate with Christ in the painful act of redemption [618, 964, 968, 970]. - Roman Catholicism
Christ alone is the Redeemer, for He alone suffered and died for sin (1 Peter 1:18-19).

The sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated in the Sacrifice of the Mass [1323, 1382] - Roman Catholicism
The Sacrifice of the cross is finished (John 19:30).

Indulgences dispensed by the Church for acts of piety release sinners from temporal punishment [1471-1473]. - Roman Catholicism
Jesus releases believers from their sins by His blood. (Revelation 1:5).

The Magisterium has the right to define truth found only obscurely or implicitly in revelation. [66, 88, 2035, 2051]. - Roman Catholicism
No one has the right to go beyond what is written in Scripture (1 Corinthians 4:6, Proverbs 30:5-6).

Scripture and Tradition together are the Church’s supreme role of faith [80, 82]. - Roman Catholicism
Scripture is the church’s rule of faith (Mark 7:7-13, 2 Timothy 3:16-17).

 

[kathmandu]

Forgiveness might not be something that is emotional. I mean it is possible to forgive someone and still feel “unsettled” or troubled by memories.
Also, forgiveness does not mean that one has to be buddy-buddy with that other person if they have not repented.

Forgiveness means that you do not wish harm to the other person. That you wish them only the best (which is heaven). That you pray for their salvation. That God open their heart to repentance and your heart to a true, full and complete letting go of the hurt.
Place all of this before God in humble prayer.
Remember that we are all sinners. We all have done things that have injured others. So a very important part of forgiving others is recognizing that fact. That we have no reason to feel somehow superior to others.
We would like to be forgiven by those we hurt, so we must be ready to forgive first.

I hope this helps

Peace
James

If this is the case, then I have forgiven everyone who has been in my life. I really am puzzled as to why I am so stuck.

 

[Carlan]

If this is the case, then I have forgiven everyone who has been in my life. I really am puzzled as to why I am so stuck.

Cause you lean on your own understanding,Peace, Carlan

 

[kathmandu]

Cause you lean on your own understanding,Peace, Carlan

Because I lean on my own understanding. Okay. But if I don’t understand it, how can do anything??

 

[kathmandu]

Because I lean on my own understanding. Okay. But if I don’t understand it, how can do anything??

Sorry. I lost power and had to find my charger.

So correct me if I am wrong here. You have to have a degree of bind faith to accept the teachings of the church. Because there are things I cannot get my little brain around I do not have the degree of blind faith needed to be a good Roman Catholic. And that pretty much sums it up, I don’t have the faith, but I am instead relying on my own reasoning. Yes, I have heard this before.

You have to pray for faith. It is a gift. At one time I thought I had it but I was mistaken, and now I am missing that. So for one reason or another, whether it be pride, hurt, stubbornness, or some other fault of my own, I was never really given this gift. I am not worthy of it. If I really wanted it I would get over myself. I think I am starting to understand it better.

 

[Cat]

Roman Catholic Doctrine Vs. The Doctrinal Teaching of the Word of God

(Quote above shortened to meet length requirements. Please refer to original post.)

edowitz1, my husband and I converted to Catholicism out of evangelical Protestantism. We came out of one of the best evangelical churches in the U.S., the church that Pastor John Ortberg grew up in. John was a youth group buddy of ours; we sat under the same teachers and preachers.

So we know good evangelical Protestant teachings and we know the Bible (KJV, NASB, NIV, Phillips, Good News, and even the paraphrase called Living Bible).

Yet we still converted to Catholicism.

You have posted a comparison-and-contrast of Catholicism with evangelical Protestant teachings. But I will tell you that your posting of Catholics teachings is over-simplistic and very much out of context, half-truthful, and in some cases, utterly incorrect.

I respectfully suggest that you do some studying about the Catholic Church and her teachings, and then post your compare-and-contrast.

One thing that you might be interested to know is that all of the Catholic teachings (at least the correct ones) that you posted above have a Biblical basis. Do you know the references?

I realize what you are trying to do is show that Protestantism is an easier path to follow than Catholicism. But this is not the way to do it. You must post the truth, not just half-truths or outright untruths. I’m sure a lot of Catholics reading your post are saying, “What’s he talking about? What kind of Catholicism is this, anyway?”

E.g., your statement that the Catholic Church teaches that Scripture and Tradition are both “the Word of God” is just plain wrong. That’s not what the Catholic Church teaches at all!

Your post really needs to be posted over in the Apologetics Section of CAF–let those learned and knowledgeable guys have at it! You’ll enjoy that discussion.

 

[JRKH]

If this is the case, then I have forgiven everyone who has been in my life. I really am puzzled as to why I am so stuck.

I really don’t know if we here can be a lot of help. It’s really difficult to try and work through these things in the very limted format of online forums.

You say that you have forgiven, but then there are evidently anger issues that come into play…that is a tough situation. I would strongly urge you to seek the council of a Spiritual director. This way you can have full, in depth, face to face, conversations and get good in depth advice. If your local priest can’t put you in touch with one, you can call the Chancery and they should be able to get you in touch with someone.

Peace
James

 

[kathmandu]

I really don’t know if we here can be a lot of help. It’s really difficult to try and work through these things in the very limted format of online forums.

You say that you have forgiven, but then there are evidently anger issues that come into play…that is a tough situation. I would strongly urge you to seek the council of a Spiritual director. This way you can have full, in depth, face to face, conversations and get good in depth advice. If your local priest can’t put you in touch with one, you can call the Chancery and they should be able to get you in touch with someone.

Peace
James

Actually you all have been of help here with me thinking this through. No one in the Catholic Church is going to give a spiritual director to someone who has not been a Roman Catholic in 40 years. I don’t belong to a parish and the Chancery is not going to deal with me. I think I am technically excommunicated if they looked at my life history. I would have a long way to go before anyone would work with me.

I am just trying to understand why and I have come a long way this morning. Thanks to everyone that threw an idea or information my way. I really do appreciate it.

 

[Roy5]

I apologize for not reading all the postings, but here are a couple of observations, perhaps already made.

1. It depends upon what sort of Protestant and Catholic you are. I know Protestants - not so many these days - who do not go to movies, do not play cards, refrain from alcohol, observe Sundays strictly, etc. Then there are Protestants who feel free to do all these things and believe that because of their faith in Christ religion should not be legalistic. I know Catholics who observe their religion faithfully, but also many who list themselves as Catholics and rarely attend mass, never say the Rosary, use articificial brith control, etc. So, it depends.

2. In the intellectual realm, hm, lots to say. Traditional Catholics and evangelical Protestants both tend to believe what they are told, whether by their priest or their pastor, which in a sense is easy. I find that many mainline Protestants, probably most, tend to carve out their theology. They may, for example, believe in the virgin birth, or they may not. They may believe that Moses performed all manner of miracle, or not. Did Jesus raise Lazarus from the dead? Some would accept it. Others might not. So, they are not handed a creed that they must believe, but develop their own beliefs. Is this easier or harder? Some would say that Catholicism is easier because you don't have to think for yourself in such areas. Others would say it's harder because you have to conform, subject your intellectual to the wisdom of the church. 

 In a nutshell, one can argue both ways with some merit.

 

[Planty_Pall]

We became Catholic in 1995. I don’t think anyone has a corner on which kind of faith makes you work harder. Sure, there is the doctrine of once saved always saved for many Protestants, including my old brand…but if you lived badly, you still never had peace. There were other distinctly Protestant guilt trips too.

I am happy as a Catholic. I am confident that Catholic moral theology understands far better the nature of the human soul, and the interaction between our wills and intellects than our Protestant friends imagine. I know myself better than I ever could have without the insights of saints and theologians whose names are familiar to us all. The Catholic faith, lived according to 2000 years of Catholic Tradition, works. I am kind of utilitarian about it. If it works in practice, it tends to make me trust that it is right in principle. It sounds selfish. It IS selfish. But it succeeds in making you less selfish! It makes a proud person smite the breast and take up their Cross! Go figure (as they say). If you want to be happy, PRACTICE the Catholic faith. There is no argument that can defeat joy!

If the Catholic faith is true, of course it is easier. Is it easier to be a good Protestant by your own power, or a good Catholic through the ordinary graces of the Sacraments? I think the answer becomes obvious in these contexts.

A happy and joyful Laetare Sunday to all,

Plantagenet

 

[Waiting]

Actually you all have been of help here with me thinking this through. No one in the Catholic Church is going to give a spiritual director to someone who has not been a Roman Catholic in 40 years. I don’t belong to a parish and the Chancery is not going to deal with me. I think I am technically excommunicated if they looked at my life history. I would have a long way to go before anyone would work with me.

I am just trying to understand why and I have come a long way this morning. Thanks to everyone that threw an idea or information my way. I really do appreciate it.

You most certainly do need and deserve a spiritual director. Jesus, Himself, said He did not come to cure those who are well, but the sick. If you don’t find a spiritual director, then rely heavily on the Divine Physician. He has helped me so many times when no one else could or even cared to try. I always knew that I could depend on Him. He has never failed me. If you tell Him over and over again that you love Him, that you need and depend on Him, I can guarantee you that you will receive help. Go to Mary, also. She is eager to send souls to her Son. If she pleads for you with Him, you can’t lose. He couldn’t say no to her on earth, so why would He need to in heaven? But the first step is up to you. Ask. Pray. Get very familiar with Jesus and Mary. Good luck and God bless.